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  • FIRST POST
    • 777ade777
    • By 777ade777 14th Oct 17, 10:31 PM
    • 67Posts
    • 14Thanks
    777ade777
    CEL parking defence help!?
    • #1
    • 14th Oct 17, 10:31 PM
    CEL parking defence help!? 14th Oct 17 at 10:31 PM
    I've finally got the dreaded county court letter. I over stayed a car park by 3 hours because a fellow employee said she send my registration to the parking officer so I could stay there because I was working in the area but next week I got a letter fine. ANYWAYS! I've sent a defence letter... could someone tell me if I've sent a decent defence please??? I'll post it below...
Page 7
    • 777ade777
    • By 777ade777 16th Nov 17, 2:11 PM
    • 67 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    777ade777
    I sent a reply to Webb yester saying -

    'No such defence was entered on the 6th of November. Legitimate correspondence was sent to make the court aware of late Particular of Claim.

    My defence will be sent tomorrow.'

    They replied today saying....

    'Thank you, for your email.

    Please note that court staff are not legally trained your response form sent on the 6th November was labelled as a defence and was processed as one.

    If you wish to alter or provide a new defence you can apply to amend or substitute a defence using the N244 ‘Application Notice’. Please read this letter thoroughly before sending the application to the court as incorrectly completed applications will be returned to you.

    Electronic versions of all forms referred to in this letter are available to download at www.justice.gov.uk/forms. When returning your application please provide a copy of the application for each defendant, a copy for the claimant and a copy for the court. Please note, an application to amend or substitute a defence is not automatically granted. The outcome of your application is at the discretion of the District Judge or court appointed Legal Advisor.

    From 21st March 2016 there is a £100 court fee to process the application without a hearing or an £255.00 court fee to process the application with a hearing, payable by cheque or postal order to HMCTS or by card by calling the Helpdesk between 9am and 3:15pm. Any applications after 21st March with the previous fee will be returned. If you cannot afford to pay this fee you can check if you are eligible for help with fees by downloading the EX160A booklet. If you have already paid the application fee you can file the completed forms via email at ccbcfees@hmcts.gsi.gov.uk.

    If you require any further information please contact our helpdesk on the number below or you can email us at ccbc@hmcts.gsi.gov.uk; Please ensure that you state the above case number in the subject heading of your email. You may also find it useful to visit the frequently asked questions (FAQ’s) section of our website. To locate this page you should go to www.justice.gov.uk and search for ‘CCBC’.


    Regards
    James Clarke
    N9 And DQ Team
    County Court Business Centre
    St Katherines House
    21-27 St Katherines Street
    Northampton
    NN1 2LH'

    This is absolute garbage, I've still sent my defence today as planned.
    • 777ade777
    • By 777ade777 16th Nov 17, 2:18 PM
    • 67 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    777ade777
    On the PDF file that was sent of me informing them that the POC was late was called 'POC defence'

    It looks like they've thought this was my proper defence because the word defence was used.

    Not to sure if they will accept the one I've sent today now.
    Last edited by 777ade777; 16-11-2017 at 2:19 PM. Reason: .
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 16th Nov 17, 2:22 PM
    • 1,144 Posts
    • 1,173 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    They have to
    The prior was legitimate correspondence. Easy win if they fail to process your defence as such.
    • 777ade777
    • By 777ade777 16th Nov 17, 2:33 PM
    • 67 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    777ade777
    .
    They have to
    The prior was legitimate correspondence. Easy win if they fail to process your defence as such.
    Originally posted by nosferatu1001

    It clearly stateed 'POC DEFENCE'. Legitimate correspondence as you say nosferatu.

    CCBC make this so hard!
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 16th Nov 17, 2:46 PM
    • 1,144 Posts
    • 1,173 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    Theyre not competent, it seems

    They cant even read their own rules, and when a CONSUMER knows more than they do, there is a problem.
    • 777ade777
    • By 777ade777 16th Nov 17, 4:05 PM
    • 67 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    777ade777
    They've just sent the exact email to me in reply to my defence which was sent today.

    I've complained and said it would be very irresponsible of CCBC if they have taken the complaint about late POC as a defence. If they're not legally trained then to use common sense, as it clearly states its 'POC DEFENCE'.

    What will happen if they don't send my defence?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 16th Nov 17, 10:17 PM
    • 51,709 Posts
    • 65,352 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Keep on as normal - DQ (and object again) then at WS stage, include all this in your WS!!
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Loadsofchildren123
    • By Loadsofchildren123 17th Nov 17, 4:50 PM
    • 1,754 Posts
    • 2,865 Thanks
    Loadsofchildren123
    Well they can UNLABEL it then. An rerrir in the computer can be corrected. It is absurd that a person employed by the court could not recognise this was not a defence. Particularly as in the letter you recorded the date by which you calculated your defence to be due.
    Write and insist it’s changed. It was their mistake and it is outrageous to expect you to apply to correct it!
    Last edited by Loadsofchildren123; 18-11-2017 at 12:13 PM.
    • Loadsofchildren123
    • By Loadsofchildren123 17th Nov 17, 4:53 PM
    • 1,754 Posts
    • 2,865 Thanks
    Loadsofchildren123
    Don’t bother to apply. If CEL picks up on it you will say the court has acknowledged it was an administrative error and you’ll ask the court to grant you leave at the start of the hearing, if necessary.

    Perhaps when you write the letter with the DQ include a request that your defence dated x is to be treated as your first filed defence.

    The thing that makes it so ridiculous is that it was very clear that letter was not your defence, it was a complaint about a breach of the rules by the C, and what’s more it actually said “I will be filing my defence on x date” or words to that effect!
    • 777ade777
    • By 777ade777 18th Nov 17, 1:17 PM
    • 67 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    777ade777
    Ccbc
    Don’t bother to apply. If CEL picks up on it you will say the court has acknowledged it was an administrative error and you’ll ask the court to grant you leave at the start of the hearing, if necessary.

    Perhaps when you write the letter with the DQ include a request that your defence dated x is to be treated as your first filed defence.

    The thing that makes it so ridiculous is that it was very clear that letter was not your defence, it was a complaint about a breach of the rules by the C, and what’s more it actually said “I will be filing my defence on x date” or words to that effect!
    Originally posted by Loadsofchildren123

    I'll email CCBC again asking for this to be changed and accept the defence sent on the 16th, I've already done that and they sent the same email back again though so i don't know if theirs any point. Okay, I'll let you know when my DQ comes so that i can i include everything i need to in the letter I'm sending with the DQ.

    I'll carry on emailing CCBC complaining.
    • 777ade777
    • By 777ade777 21st Nov 17, 10:08 PM
    • 67 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    777ade777
    I've received 'Notice of proposed allocation to the small claims track'.

    Any advice/tips are welcome
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 21st Nov 17, 10:12 PM
    • 51,709 Posts
    • 65,352 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Read the NEWBIES thread post #2, where a link to bargepole's post, covers it in full, question by question.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Redx
    • By Redx 21st Nov 17, 10:12 PM
    • 16,895 Posts
    • 20,996 Thanks
    Redx
    read BARGEPOLE`s timeline so you know what to do

    NEWBIES sticky thread, post #2

    that post is your bible, so if you have any basic questions to be answered, you have not studied that post and its links properly
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 21st Nov 17, 10:13 PM
    • 4,734 Posts
    • 3,072 Thanks
    KeithP
    I've received 'Notice of proposed allocation to the small claims track'.

    Any advice/tips are welcome
    Originally posted by 777ade777
    Follow the guidance offered in post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread.
    .
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 21st Nov 17, 11:17 PM
    • 15,886 Posts
    • 24,632 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Hard to believe that 135 posts on, the OP still isn’t all over this in terms of ingesting the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #2, and all similar claims from CEL, which are littered everywhere on the forum from over the past couple of months, with so much advice.

    We’re dealing with hundreds of different threads, from different posters, from different situations, from different PPCs, from different stages of evolution, but still well ahead of the OP on their own one particular case.

    We’ve dealt with 83 different cases today alone!
    Last edited by Umkomaas; 21-11-2017 at 11:19 PM.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • 777ade777
    • By 777ade777 29th Nov 17, 2:16 PM
    • 67 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    777ade777
    So I'd keep it simple and complain about:
    1. the blatant refusal to comply with the pre-action obligations of the Protocol and the PD before it, which has prevented you from understanding the claim and dealing with it properly. The court should exercise its powers under para 15 of the PD to stay the claim and compel the C to comply (and you'll need to be fairly specific about the failures and how they have prevented you from dealing with the claim properly)
    2. the late PoC and the backdating


    What does PD mean?

    I'm just getting a letter together with my DQ.
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 29th Nov 17, 2:42 PM
    • 1,144 Posts
    • 1,173 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    Practice Directions. Easily found if you google or read the newbies thread.
    • 777ade777
    • By 777ade777 29th Nov 17, 3:35 PM
    • 67 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    777ade777
    Help please
    Practice Directions. Easily found if you google or read the newbies thread.
    Originally posted by nosferatu1001
    I've read the PD on google and I've no idea what to write about on number 1 on the post below about

    'the blatant refusal to comply with the pre-action obligations of the Protocol and the PD before it, which has prevented you from understanding the claim and dealing with it properly. The court should exercise its powers under para 15 of the PD to stay the claim and compel the C to comply (and you'll need to be fairly specific about the failures and how they have prevented you from dealing with the claim properly)

    I don't know how they've not complied with the pre-action obligations, it's so hard when i know nothing about it or what it means. Would someone please help me?

    I know what to write regarding the late POC and posting time, just the above that I'm stuck with.
    • Loadsofchildren123
    • By Loadsofchildren123 29th Nov 17, 3:47 PM
    • 1,754 Posts
    • 2,865 Thanks
    Loadsofchildren123
    "PD" means Practice Direction - Pre-Action Conduct.


    https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/protocol


    Read the first one (the PD) and the new Protocol on Debt Claims.


    They are both written in plain English and explain the parties' obligations and the whole intention of the obligations.


    The Protocol replaces the first part of the PD from 1st October, but paras 13-16 continue to apply (the ones which contain the courts' powers to sanction failures to comply).


    If you want to understand more, in the newbies thread I think there's a response I drafted to a non-compliant LBC which specifies how the Protocol/PD are not being complied with and requesting information and documents. This should help you understand how CEL are breaching it and destroying its intention (to assist you in understanding the claim and them understanding your defence at an early stage, in the hope of avoiding a claim altogether or at least narrowing the issues).
    Although a practising Solicitor, my posts here are NOT legal advice, but are personal opinion based on limited facts provided anonymously by forum users. I accept no liability for the accuracy of any such posts and users are advised that, if they wish to obtain formal legal advice specific to their case, they must seek instruct and pay a solicitor.
    • 777ade777
    • By 777ade777 3rd Dec 17, 2:05 PM
    • 67 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    777ade777
    Do i send DQ to the court and CEL?
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