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    • claire21
    • By claire21 12th Oct 17, 10:13 PM
    • 32,014Posts
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    claire21
    HMRC taking months with probate
    • #1
    • 12th Oct 17, 10:13 PM
    HMRC taking months with probate 12th Oct 17 at 10:13 PM
    Solicitor sent forms in to them at start of May , I've paid the IHT and as far as my understanding goes they just need to send a form back to solicitors so they can start to release the money etc and if HMRC aren't happy with anything they query that afterwards. So they have had info months now are HMRC really that backlogged to send the form back to solicitors ?
Page 1
    • Yorkshireman99
    • By Yorkshireman99 12th Oct 17, 10:16 PM
    • 3,378 Posts
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    Yorkshireman99
    • #2
    • 12th Oct 17, 10:16 PM
    • #2
    • 12th Oct 17, 10:16 PM
    Quite probably. It is a national scandal.
    • Tom99
    • By Tom99 13th Oct 17, 4:49 AM
    • 682 Posts
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    Tom99
    • #3
    • 13th Oct 17, 4:49 AM
    • #3
    • 13th Oct 17, 4:49 AM
    Is there a house to sell? If so they may have involved the Valuation Office and may be waiting to see if you sell at above the probate value you have returned.

    If there are no assets still to be sold you will just have to keep ringing them, say once a month, and explain you are waiting to distibute the estate.

    Are the solicitors able to make an interim distribution holding back the max that IT could be?
    • eddyinfreehold
    • By eddyinfreehold 13th Oct 17, 8:50 AM
    • 118 Posts
    • 88 Thanks
    eddyinfreehold
    • #4
    • 13th Oct 17, 8:50 AM
    • #4
    • 13th Oct 17, 8:50 AM
    Hi Claire21

    I'm in a similar boat to you but a bit further down the line I think. I'm not sure from what you write whether you have received Grant of probate yet....

    My timeline is as follows

    Father's date of death was late Feb 2016
    IHT400 and all associated forms were submitted in August 2016....
    they were received back with a minor corrections and a "Provisional Calculation of IHT Due" in early November 2016.
    This sum was paid from the Estate by return of post.
    In early December we received the IHT421 from HMRC
    We applied for a Grant of Probate by return.
    Probate was granted on 29th December.
    We calculated the maximum possible amount of IHT that could be charged to the Estate and added 20% on top as a safety margin.
    The property was transferred to my sister and an equivalent sum to its probate valuation distributed to the 2 other beneficiaries ( it was a simple will with 3 executors and the same 3 as beneficiaries).
    All the remaining bonds, funds and shares were cashed in by March 2017 and languish in the solicitor's client account.
    We have heard nothing from HMRC since early December 2016 except telephone enquiries that repeat "the account was sent to Compliance in Feb 2017" where presumably it still languishes. I have gone through the IHT Manual with a fine toothcomb. HMRC have no time limit imposed on them (nor any obligation to respond to chivvying) to make their final calculations and sign the case off.

    I dare say the above won't cheer you up Claire21, but it will give you a picture of the scandalous ineptitude of HMRC and what your expectations might be....
    Last edited by eddyinfreehold; 13-10-2017 at 8:54 AM. Reason: typo
    • Yorkshireman99
    • By Yorkshireman99 13th Oct 17, 9:08 AM
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    Yorkshireman99
    • #5
    • 13th Oct 17, 9:08 AM
    • #5
    • 13th Oct 17, 9:08 AM
    HAve you involved your MP yet?
    • eddyinfreehold
    • By eddyinfreehold 13th Oct 17, 9:38 AM
    • 118 Posts
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    eddyinfreehold
    • #6
    • 13th Oct 17, 9:38 AM
    • #6
    • 13th Oct 17, 9:38 AM
    I have discussed it with the other executors and the solicitor. We will wait until after Christmas then probably act together.
    • Yorkshireman99
    • By Yorkshireman99 13th Oct 17, 12:22 PM
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    Yorkshireman99
    • #7
    • 13th Oct 17, 12:22 PM
    • #7
    • 13th Oct 17, 12:22 PM
    Do it now! They have had plenty of time already.
    • claire21
    • By claire21 25th Oct 17, 10:58 PM
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    claire21
    • #8
    • 25th Oct 17, 10:58 PM
    • #8
    • 25th Oct 17, 10:58 PM
    Sorry I’ve only just come back to this , yes there’s assets etc but as far as I’m aware it’s just getting the initial ‘form’ back from HMRC so my solicitor can arrange the release of funds etc held and as I’m sole beneficiary I’m aware that at a later date the valuation office may decide to query figures and I either argue my case for valuation or pay increased IHT ....but it’s the first form to start the ball rolling the solicitor hasn’t got back , I’ve paid the IHT calculated by solicitor but it’s months now and he’s heard nothing back

    I’m not sure off all the form names as solicitor dealing with it all but apart from some minor cash sums to others of a few thousand I’m the beneficiary so I’ve paid the IHT but can’t get the funds released from investment company as the form hasn’t come back
    Last edited by claire21; 25-10-2017 at 11:04 PM.
    • Savvy_Sue
    • By Savvy_Sue 26th Oct 17, 1:21 AM
    • 37,860 Posts
    • 34,250 Thanks
    Savvy_Sue
    • #9
    • 26th Oct 17, 1:21 AM
    • #9
    • 26th Oct 17, 1:21 AM
    Do it now! They have had plenty of time already.
    Originally posted by Yorkshireman99
    I'd agree with this. It might not have occurred to you, but some executors will spend the Christmas holidays finalising what they're sending to probate and HMRC, causing a bit of a backlog in the new year ...
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    • Tom99
    • By Tom99 26th Oct 17, 2:48 AM
    • 682 Posts
    • 407 Thanks
    Tom99
    Is the solicitor the executor or are you?
    The grant of probate normally only takes a few weeks so nearly six months is far to long.
    Even if you are not the executor I would ring the probate office and ask what is going on, now don't wait until Christmas.
    • eddyinfreehold
    • By eddyinfreehold 26th Oct 17, 8:37 AM
    • 118 Posts
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    eddyinfreehold
    Sorry I’ve only just come back to this , yes there’s assets etc but as far as I’m aware it’s just getting the initial ‘form’ back from HMRC so my solicitor can arrange the release of funds etc

    Rereading this I'm guessing you're at the stage where you want to apply for a Grant of Probate. Do you have the 'receipt' from HMRC saying they acknowledge your initial payment of IHT? With it comes a number needed to apply to the court for Probate. That normally takes about 6-8 weeks. Perhaps you should check with the bank that they have released the funds to HMRC and they have been received. Then go back to HMRC and ask when you can expect the receipt so you can apply for Probate. When you do get Probate you are then free to distribute the Estate according to the will. You must, obviously, leave more than sufficient funds in the Estate account to allow for the worst possible case in terms of an additional IHT demand. Your solicitor will advise here. You might be waiting another year after Grant of Probate going by my experience, so an interim distribution to minor beneficiaries and yourself is reasonable.

    In my case...

    Do it now! They have had plenty of time already. Originally posted by Yorkshireman99


    Savvy_Sue: "I'd agree with this. It might not have occurred to you, but some executors will spend the Christmas holidays finalising what they're sending to probate and HMRC, causing a bit of a backlog in the new year " ...

    Savvy Sue ... I'm not sure if you are referring to my case or the original poster. I didn't mean to hijack the original thread, sorry. From my viewpoint we have submitted all forms, paid the initial tranche of IHT, recieved a Grant of Probate and made an intermediary distribution according to the will. We have waited ten months now for HMRC to come back with an answer as to whether there is further IHT to pay or they are satisfied with our original submission. It is a very complicated position because of trusts, early death of deceased's spouse, a Family Agreement that confuses a Probate from 1969 etc etc. I am not going to be heavy handed with HMRC deploying an MP and extra pressure yet. I do know the case is not 'lost' in the Christmas post though, it was last seen in Compliance in February and there it presumably still languishes. I will be patient.
    • Yorkshireman99
    • By Yorkshireman99 26th Oct 17, 2:00 PM
    • 3,378 Posts
    • 2,746 Thanks
    Yorkshireman99
    Sorry I’ve only just come back to this , yes there’s assets etc but as far as I’m aware it’s just getting the initial ‘form’ back from HMRC so my solicitor can arrange the release of funds etc

    Rereading this I'm guessing you're at the stage where you want to apply for a Grant of Probate. Do you have the 'receipt' from HMRC saying they acknowledge your initial payment of IHT? With it comes a number needed to apply to the court for Probate. That normally takes about 6-8 weeks. Perhaps you should check with the bank that they have released the funds to HMRC and they have been received. Then go back to HMRC and ask when you can expect the receipt so you can apply for Probate. When you do get Probate you are then free to distribute the Estate according to the will. You must, obviously, leave more than sufficient funds in the Estate account to allow for the worst possible case in terms of an additional IHT demand. Your solicitor will advise here. You might be waiting another year after Grant of Probate going by my experience, so an interim distribution to minor beneficiaries and yourself is reasonable.

    In my case...

    Do it now! They have had plenty of time already. Originally posted by Yorkshireman99


    Savvy_Sue: "I'd agree with this. It might not have occurred to you, but some executors will spend the Christmas holidays finalising what they're sending to probate and HMRC, causing a bit of a backlog in the new year " ...

    Savvy Sue ... I'm not sure if you are referring to my case or the original poster. I didn't mean to hijack the original thread, sorry. From my viewpoint we have submitted all forms, paid the initial tranche of IHT, recieved a Grant of Probate and made an intermediary distribution according to the will. We have waited ten months now for HMRC to come back with an answer as to whether there is further IHT to pay or they are satisfied with our original submission. It is a very complicated position because of trusts, early death of deceased's spouse, a Family Agreement that confuses a Probate from 1969 etc etc. I am not going to be heavy handed with HMRC deploying an MP and extra pressure yet. I do know the case is not 'lost' in the Christmas post though, it was last seen in Compliance in February and there it presumably still languishes. I will be patient.
    Originally posted by eddyinfreehold
    With respect you are being far too lenient with them. They have had ample time to deal with any issues. In my experience the only thing to speed them up is your MP or the courts. I have sued them three time albeit not on probate issues and on each occasion their solicitor had to listen to a severe telling off from the judge. I also received a grovelling written apology and compensation on each occasion. Don’t delay in kicking their collective backside!
    • eddyinfreehold
    • By eddyinfreehold 26th Oct 17, 4:05 PM
    • 118 Posts
    • 88 Thanks
    eddyinfreehold
    YM99 ... we've been through this already. I don't agree but I respect your opinion and willingness to advise.

    I have two joint executors that I don't want to fall out with, and a specialist IHT solicitor advising us. They all feel an MP is too heavy handed at present. I may not agree with them, but falling out would be far worse. I don't believe I could sue HMRC for anything as yet. The parts of the IHT manual in the public domain show no grounds where I would succeed. They are certainly not constrained by a time limit. Some people have said they have 'a year and a day' and then it's a fait accomplis, but I can't see that anywhere. It seems to be an urban myth. The likely answer for the delay is their move over to a computerised system. We went into the queue as they were starting to use it. We were one of the last in the 'paper' system.
    • Yorkshireman99
    • By Yorkshireman99 26th Oct 17, 6:43 PM
    • 3,378 Posts
    • 2,746 Thanks
    Yorkshireman99
    YM99 ... we've been through this already. I don't agree but I respect your opinion and willingness to advise.

    I have two joint executors that I don't want to fall out with, and a specialist IHT solicitor advising us. They all feel an MP is too heavy handed at present. I may not agree with them, but falling out would be far worse. I don't believe I could sue HMRC for anything as yet. The parts of the IHT manual in the public domain show no grounds where I would succeed. They are certainly not constrained by a time limit. Some people have said they have 'a year and a day' and then it's a fait accomplis, but I can't see that anywhere. It seems to be an urban myth. The likely answer for the delay is their move over to a computerised system. We went into the queue as they were starting to use it. We were one of the last in the 'paper' system.
    Originally posted by eddyinfreehold
    All noted. I agree that legal action might be premature at this time. However, MP's can , and indeed, do get things moving. I don't see any downside in involving them but obviously you need to discuss it with your fellow executors.
    • eddyinfreehold
    • By eddyinfreehold 26th Oct 17, 10:29 PM
    • 118 Posts
    • 88 Thanks
    eddyinfreehold
    YM99

    Yes, it is a difficult and thorny matter and patience would appear to be a virtue. I will post progress if and when it appears. Thank you for your help.
    • Ben Fogles Dog
    • By Ben Fogles Dog 5th Dec 17, 12:32 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Ben Fogles Dog
    Hi Claire21

    I'm in a similar boat to you but a bit further down the line I think. I'm not sure from what you write whether you have received Grant of probate yet....

    My timeline is as follows

    Father's date of death was late Feb 2016
    IHT400 and all associated forms were submitted in August 2016....
    they were received back with a minor corrections and a "Provisional Calculation of IHT Due" in early November 2016.
    This sum was paid from the Estate by return of post.
    In early December we received the IHT421 from HMRC
    We applied for a Grant of Probate by return.
    Probate was granted on 29th December.
    We calculated the maximum possible amount of IHT that could be charged to the Estate and added 20% on top as a safety margin.
    The property was transferred to my sister and an equivalent sum to its probate valuation distributed to the 2 other beneficiaries ( it was a simple will with 3 executors and the same 3 as beneficiaries).
    All the remaining bonds, funds and shares were cashed in by March 2017 and languish in the solicitor's client account.
    We have heard nothing from HMRC since early December 2016 except telephone enquiries that repeat "the account was sent to Compliance in Feb 2017" where presumably it still languishes. I have gone through the IHT Manual with a fine toothcomb. HMRC have no time limit imposed on them (nor any obligation to respond to chivvying) to make their final calculations and sign the case off.

    I dare say the above won't cheer you up Claire21, but it will give you a picture of the scandalous ineptitude of HMRC and what your expectations might be....
    Originally posted by eddyinfreehold
    I've just seen this post which actually makes me feel a little better as I've "only" been waiting since February 2017 (see my new thread on the same subject). Have you heard anything since you posted this in October?
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