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  • FIRST POST
    • badgeraudio
    • By badgeraudio 12th Oct 17, 6:37 PM
    • 70Posts
    • 31Thanks
    badgeraudio
    Parking Eye - Derby Pride Park
    • #1
    • 12th Oct 17, 6:37 PM
    Parking Eye - Derby Pride Park 12th Oct 17 at 6:37 PM
    All,
    The driver attended a conference at Pride Park, the conference invite said free onsite parking was provided.
    Once on site the car was parked in a car park with some signage suggesting that a permit to park was required. The driver walked to reception to get a permit, only to be told that was the wrong car park and the car needed to be moved to the one on the other side of the ground.
    The driver complied and thought no more about it.

    Today the hirer received a PCN via the Lease car company for a 21 minute stay in the first (Staff) car-park. The onsite signage did not state it was a staff car park or else the driver would not have used it.

    The details so far:
    Parking date: 19/9/2017
    PCN letter to Lease company: 23/9/17
    (This PCN has a stamp date of the 28/9/2017 possibly stamped by the lease company for date it was revived???)
    Letter from Lease company dated 10/9/17
    Letter received from Lease company dated 12/9/17

    The letter from the lease company does not state if they have had any correspondence back to Parking Eye (PE).

    The hirer has emailed the lease company to confirm if they have sent the required documents back to PE or not. As stated in paragraph 13 of schedule 4:http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/9/schedule/4/enacted
    the driver asked them not to pay any charges as the driver is appealing.

    The initial hope is that the lease company has sent the info and PE dont then send them onto the hirer within the required 21 days.

    But what is the route for appeal if the lease company has not sent the documents to PE? Can the hirer still appeal on the fact I have not received them?
    Will PE just push it onward to the lease company and then the hirer end up paying the full charge+ any admin charges??

    Any advice would be appreciated.
    Cheers
    Last edited by badgeraudio; 12-10-2017 at 7:40 PM.
Page 1
    • Redx
    • By Redx 12th Oct 17, 6:41 PM
    • 16,895 Posts
    • 20,992 Thanks
    Redx
    • #2
    • 12th Oct 17, 6:41 PM
    • #2
    • 12th Oct 17, 6:41 PM
    just follow the advice by EDNA BASHER in post #1 of the NEWBIES sticky thread

    any failure under POFA2012 means you should win regardless, so you want PE to fail in getting and serving the correct documents, plus if a lease company fails to follow POFA that is THEIR PROBLEM , not yours

    your lease company should be following the BVRLA advice given to members 3 years ago

    its people who blab about who the driver was etc that fail , SO EDIT POST #1 and remove any hint of who was driving

    only ever refer to THE DRIVER , THE KEEPER, THE HIRER , THE LESSEE

    never "ME , MYSELF or I"
    Last edited by Redx; 12-10-2017 at 6:43 PM.
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • badgeraudio
    • By badgeraudio 12th Oct 17, 7:20 PM
    • 70 Posts
    • 31 Thanks
    badgeraudio
    • #3
    • 12th Oct 17, 7:20 PM
    • #3
    • 12th Oct 17, 7:20 PM
    cheers for the reply.
    I get what your saying. But from my understanding of the EDNA BASHER response, this relies on receiving an inappropriate notice to hirer from PE.
    I tried re writing the letter in terms of not having even revived the notice to hirer but I can not get it to have the same gravitas.

    IE:
    Dear Sir,

    Parking Charge Notice [0123456789]: Vehicle Registration [AA11ABC]

    I refer to the above-detailed Parking Charge Notice (“PCN”) issued to the registered keeper by Parking Eye. I confirm that as the hirer of this vehicle, I am its keeper for the purpose of the corresponding definition under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (“POFA”) and I write to formally challenge the validity of this PCN.

    You will no doubt be familiar with the strict requirements of Schedule 4 of POFA to be followed in order for a parking operator to be able to invoke keeper liability for a Parking Charge. There are a number of reasons why Parking Eyes PCN did not comply with POFA; in order that you may understand why, I suggest that you carefully study the details of Paragraphs 13 and 14 of Schedule 4 in particular.

    Please confirm that you shall now cancel this charge. Alternatively, should you choose to reject my challenge, please provide me with details of the Independent Appeals Service (POPLA), their contact details and a unique POPLA appeal reference so that I may escalate the matter to POPLA.

    Thank you for your cooperation and I look forward to receiving your response within the relevant timescales specified under the British Parking Association Ltd Code of Practice.


    Yours faithfully,

    [Insert squiggle as signature]
    Please let me know what you think.
    I guess one risk with this response is that the lease company have 28 days from the 23/9/17 to send the docs to PE. IE up till the 20/10/17
    PE then have 21 days to issue them to me. IE up till 9/11/17.

    If I shout too loud now, will they just hound the Lease company for the money or provide a compliant notice to hirer before the 9/11/17?

    Thanks
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 12th Oct 17, 7:24 PM
    • 4,731 Posts
    • 3,066 Thanks
    KeithP
    • #4
    • 12th Oct 17, 7:24 PM
    • #4
    • 12th Oct 17, 7:24 PM
    I get what your saying.
    Originally posted by badgeraudio
    Do you really?

    You have not edited your post.

    For example, your first sentence should be:
    The driver attended a conference at Pride Park, the conference invite said free onsite parking was provided.
    Please review the rest of your post similarly.
    Last edited by KeithP; 12-10-2017 at 7:28 PM.
    .
    • badgeraudio
    • By badgeraudio 12th Oct 17, 7:32 PM
    • 70 Posts
    • 31 Thanks
    badgeraudio
    • #5
    • 12th Oct 17, 7:32 PM
    • #5
    • 12th Oct 17, 7:32 PM
    Do you really?

    You have not edited your post.

    For example, your first sentence should be:
    The driver attended a conference at Pride Park, the conference invite said free onsite parking was provided.
    Please review the rest of your post similarly.
    Originally posted by KeithP
    This gets confusing!
    I was quoting the EDNA Basher response, here:
    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=69859059#post69859059
    Which has "I" all over it!
    I will update post one above though
    • Redx
    • By Redx 12th Oct 17, 7:35 PM
    • 16,895 Posts
    • 20,992 Thanks
    Redx
    • #6
    • 12th Oct 17, 7:35 PM
    • #6
    • 12th Oct 17, 7:35 PM
    yes use I when you are the hirer/lessee , talking about what you as hirer/lessee have received etc

    but the facts of the day are referred to as the DRIVER or as THE KEEPER or as THE HIRER

    use the correct words in the correct context at the correct time

    the "story" should not have I in it, but THE DRIVER etc

    I could have been driving for all anyone knows !!!

    think about it (please)
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • badgeraudio
    • By badgeraudio 12th Oct 17, 7:42 PM
    • 70 Posts
    • 31 Thanks
    badgeraudio
    • #7
    • 12th Oct 17, 7:42 PM
    • #7
    • 12th Oct 17, 7:42 PM
    ok. updated above.
    • Redx
    • By Redx 12th Oct 17, 7:48 PM
    • 16,895 Posts
    • 20,992 Thanks
    Redx
    • #8
    • 12th Oct 17, 7:48 PM
    • #8
    • 12th Oct 17, 7:48 PM
    yep, seems ok to me (we are trying to protect the identity of people hence the pedantry) , the PPC`s monitor forums like this one (hint)

    you wont get better advice than what EB says, so check his posts out

    click on his name and SHOW POSTS etc
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • badgeraudio
    • By badgeraudio 13th Oct 17, 3:43 PM
    • 70 Posts
    • 31 Thanks
    badgeraudio
    • #9
    • 13th Oct 17, 3:43 PM
    • #9
    • 13th Oct 17, 3:43 PM
    I have just got off the phone with the lease company. They said that due to "Data protection" they do not send my details off to PE.

    I then had an email stating:
    We are lease company not hire company. The length of Hire contacts are 6 months are under, so this paragraph does not apply to Lex Autolease.

    We do not have hire agreements, so ultimately liable for private parking offences.


    So I guess I will never receive a Notice to Hirer as the Lease company wont comply.

    Any thoughts on how to proceed?
    • Half_way
    • By Half_way 13th Oct 17, 4:00 PM
    • 3,872 Posts
    • 5,455 Thanks
    Half_way
    You need to be very careful, as the lease company may well pay the parking charge, believing it to be a fine, and then charge you the cost, as well as a very nice admin fee.
    you must check your lease agreement/terms very carefully to see what it says about fines/penalties etc, and if there is any mention of additional charges.
    under no circumstances refer to this as a fine when dealing with the lease company
    From the Plain Language Commission:

    "The BPA has surely become one of the most socially dangerous organisations in the UK"
    • badgeraudio
    • By badgeraudio 13th Oct 17, 4:18 PM
    • 70 Posts
    • 31 Thanks
    badgeraudio
    Agreed.

    I have asked the lease company to NOT pay anything and they have logged it on their system (I have revived and Email to confirm).

    I have only referred to this as a PCN in all correspondence.

    Not found the Lease company words yet, but my company policy is:
    Road Traffic Offences and Parking Fines
    Benefit users are personally responsible for any fines or other penalties for breaches of the Road Traffic Acts or regulations incurred whilst on company x 's business, or private use (including, but not limited to: parking fines, congestion charges, speeding fines, red light and bus lane camera fines, etc.).

    Where the registered driver incurs such fines, the vehicle provider has been instructed to nominate the driver to the issuing authority, who will then send a copy of the notice direct to the driver to pay or appeal. This may incur an administration charge for which the benefit user is liable. company x reserves the right to make a deduction from the benefit user’s salary or any other payment due to the benefit user (e.g. bonus, bonus accrual, termination payment, etc.) for the cost of any unpaid fines and administration charges.

    If a vehicle is clamped or towed away the benefit user will also be responsible for obtaining the release of the vehicle and any costs incurred.
    • badgeraudio
    • By badgeraudio 15th Oct 17, 9:34 AM
    • 70 Posts
    • 31 Thanks
    badgeraudio
    Has anyone got any advise on how to appeal this charge?
    Given the way the lease company want to deal with it!
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