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    • Sheps17
    • By Sheps17 12th Oct 17, 5:00 PM
    • 3Posts
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    Sheps17
    PayPal chargeback problem
    • #1
    • 12th Oct 17, 5:00 PM
    PayPal chargeback problem 12th Oct 17 at 5:00 PM
    I'm asking on behalf of my son. He has traded digital product on line and took the payment through PayPal. The money has since been taken from his account by PayPal and given to the buyer. The buyer claims that the money was taken fraudulently from his account and PayPal have immediately decided that he is right. PayPal say that there is nothing more that they can do.
    Does anyone have any advice. My son has lost a substantial amount of money. He has reported it to the police but the likelihood of them being able to retrieve the money is vanishingly small.
    Thank you.
    Last edited by Sheps17; 12-10-2017 at 5:02 PM. Reason: spelling
Page 1
    • eddddy
    • By eddddy 12th Oct 17, 5:16 PM
    • 5,295 Posts
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    eddddy
    • #2
    • 12th Oct 17, 5:16 PM
    • #2
    • 12th Oct 17, 5:16 PM
    The buyer claims that the money was taken fraudulently from his account and PayPal have immediately decided that he is right.
    Originally posted by Sheps17
    Are you saying that you don't believe the buyer? You think the buyer made the purchase, but is now denying it?

    Do you have contact details for the buyer?

    If so, you can chase the buyer for payment.

    Ultimately, if the buyer refuses to pay, you can make a claim through the small claims court.
    • chappers
    • By chappers 12th Oct 17, 5:49 PM
    • 2,758 Posts
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    chappers
    • #3
    • 12th Oct 17, 5:49 PM
    • #3
    • 12th Oct 17, 5:49 PM
    hang on who is doing what here.
    Are you saying your son sold something and got paid via paypal and that the buyer fraudulently used someone elses Paypal account so the money has now been paid back to that person.
    • Sheps17
    • By Sheps17 13th Oct 17, 9:22 AM
    • 3 Posts
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    Sheps17
    • #4
    • 13th Oct 17, 9:22 AM
    • #4
    • 13th Oct 17, 9:22 AM
    I'm checking on the correct answers to your follow up questions.
    Thank you for responding.
    • RichL74
    • By RichL74 13th Oct 17, 9:27 AM
    • 836 Posts
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    RichL74
    • #5
    • 13th Oct 17, 9:27 AM
    • #5
    • 13th Oct 17, 9:27 AM
    Sounds like a Chargeback situation.

    Customer has got the goods and doesnt want to pay for them so is making out the money has been taken from his account without his knowledge.

    Paypal will always side with the buyer in this situation. Very sorry for your son but the likelihood (sp) of him getting anything back is very slim.

    If I have read it wrong then apologies for worrying you more.
    • Candyapple
    • By Candyapple 13th Oct 17, 10:33 AM
    • 2,368 Posts
    • 1,785 Thanks
    Candyapple
    • #6
    • 13th Oct 17, 10:33 AM
    • #6
    • 13th Oct 17, 10:33 AM
    I'm asking on behalf of my son. He has traded digital product on line and took the payment through PayPal. The money has since been taken from his account by PayPal and given to the buyer. The buyer claims that the money was taken fraudulently from his account and PayPal have immediately decided that he is right. PayPal say that there is nothing more that they can do.
    Does anyone have any advice. My son has lost a substantial amount of money. He has reported it to the police but the likelihood of them being able to retrieve the money is vanishingly small.
    Thank you.
    Originally posted by Sheps17
    Unfortunately for your son, this is a common scam. When accepting Paypal, you need to have sold physical goods and then post it using a tracked and signed for service. Because your son sold digital goods (automatic denial for any seller protection from Paypal) and also has no signed proof of delivery (second strike for seller protection) then he has no comeback.

    He will have to chalk this one up as a lesson learned as that money is long gone. Perhaps next time before he sells anything he should learn to do his research on common scams, Paypal acceptance and about how to be eligible for Paypal's seller protection.
    I'm a Board Guide on the Credit Cards, Loans, Credit Files & Ratings boards. I'm a volunteer to help the boards run smoothly, and I can move and merge threads there. Any views are mine and not the official line of moneysavingexpert.com
    • chappers
    • By chappers 13th Oct 17, 10:35 AM
    • 2,758 Posts
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    chappers
    • #7
    • 13th Oct 17, 10:35 AM
    • #7
    • 13th Oct 17, 10:35 AM
    that's one of the issues with paypal, they are very happy to emphasise the security of sending money but not very quick to accept the shortcomings of receiving money.
    The ease and flexibility of using paypal are it's weaknesses too; one click payments, the ability to still operate an account many years after you have vacated the registered address, the addition of cards to your account that aren't even yours or registered at the paypal address etc.

    As a seller you can protect yourself to a certain degree by only posting to the paypal address.
    • Sheps17
    • By Sheps17 14th Oct 17, 10:46 AM
    • 3 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Sheps17
    • #8
    • 14th Oct 17, 10:46 AM
    • #8
    • 14th Oct 17, 10:46 AM
    Thanks to everyone who has replied. This has taken my 19 yo son's summer earnings and savings - all of it. I am (of course) furious that PayPal appears to be, in effect, supporting organised crime by failing to address this problem but there seems to be little that we can do about it.
    I hope it will teach my son to read the small print. I also hope that he will appeal to the CEO of PayPal/eBay in the hope that this system will change.
    • eskbanker
    • By eskbanker 14th Oct 17, 12:29 PM
    • 5,632 Posts
    • 5,477 Thanks
    eskbanker
    • #9
    • 14th Oct 17, 12:29 PM
    • #9
    • 14th Oct 17, 12:29 PM
    He has traded digital product on line
    Originally posted by Sheps17
    This has taken my 19 yo son's summer earnings and savings - all of it.
    Originally posted by Sheps17
    I'd formed the impression that one sale out of many had been (wrongly) reversed but if his trading consisted of one single high-value sale then that in itself sounds a hugely risky proposition, so, regardless of any other lessons learned from this, hopefully it's clear that putting all his eggs in one basket like that isn't a good idea....
    • WillyWonga
    • By WillyWonga 14th Oct 17, 2:01 PM
    • 271 Posts
    • 143 Thanks
    WillyWonga
    Sellers beware. Even sending recorded delivery is not good enough to stop chargeback as will only recognise guaranteed delivery service. Unfortunately some people know these flaws and will exploit sellers if digital transactions done online as they know PayPal will find in their favour.
    • Marksfish
    • By Marksfish 17th Oct 17, 2:51 PM
    • 178 Posts
    • 34 Thanks
    Marksfish
    I don't sell and accept Paypal now. A few years ago I sold an item (not expensive, about 20), sent by a "tracked" service as per the requirements. Sent to the confirmed address, so all eligible for seller protection. Signature from the person named on the account, all hunky dory. 10 weeks later I received a chargeback stating unauthorised funds, this is despite the eBay account being the same as the PP account and the named person signing for the item. Seller protection went out the window and I got charged 10 for them processing the chargeback!!!
    • Heng Leng
    • By Heng Leng 17th Oct 17, 9:35 PM
    • 4,128 Posts
    • 1,263 Thanks
    Heng Leng
    A small claims action (against the scammer) might be more productive - especially if you are reasonably certain that it is a scam.

    The only risk would be throwing good money after bad.
    • soolin
    • By soolin 17th Oct 17, 10:18 PM
    • 59,298 Posts
    • 42,030 Thanks
    soolin
    Sellers beware. Even sending recorded delivery is not good enough to stop chargeback as will only recognise guaranteed delivery service. Unfortunately some people know these flaws and will exploit sellers if digital transactions done online as they know PayPal will find in their favour.
    Originally posted by WillyWonga
    That is not correct, for items under 750 sellers only have to show online tracking or proof of delivery to the address given in PayPal. There has never been a requirement to use only special delivery, even the new included delivery confirmation on standard parcels is sufficient to defend an INR if it shows delivery.

    I don't sell and accept Paypal now. A few years ago I sold an item (not expensive, about 20), sent by a "tracked" service as per the requirements. Sent to the confirmed address, so all eligible for seller protection. Signature from the person named on the account, all hunky dory. 10 weeks later I received a chargeback stating unauthorised funds, this is despite the eBay account being the same as the PP account and the named person signing for the item. Seller protection went out the window and I got charged 10 for them processing the chargeback!!!
    Originally posted by Marksfish
    A fraudulent use of card claim is easily defended with proof of posting.
    I'm the Board Guide for the Ebay Board , Charities Board , Dosh & Disability , Up Your Income and the Local MoneySaving-England board which means I'm a volunteer to help the boards run smoothly, and I can move posts there. However, do remember, board guides don't read every post. If you spot an illegal or inappropriate post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com (it's not part of my role to deal with this). Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com
    New to Forum? Guide
    • Marksfish
    • By Marksfish 18th Oct 17, 6:20 AM
    • 178 Posts
    • 34 Thanks
    Marksfish
    A fraudulent use of card claim is easily defended with proof of posting.
    Originally posted by soolin
    Not in my case. Full online tracking from drop off to doorstep delivery. Still resulted in their claim being successful, and I didn't get my item back either!!
    • soolin
    • By soolin 18th Oct 17, 2:35 PM
    • 59,298 Posts
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    soolin
    Not in my case. Full online tracking from drop off to doorstep delivery. Still resulted in their claim being successful, and I didn't get my item back either!!
    Originally posted by Marksfish
    That's why the difference between claims is important, an upload of proof of posting NOT proof of delivery would have won the case. PayPal rules are clear and it is nothing to do with luck or not, if you comply with the requirements of seller protection (which includes posting within 7 days to the address given by PayPal etc) then you invoke seller protection , point them at their rules, prove item was sent as per requirements and wait 21 days to get the case found in your favour. I've never lost one yet. Strangely enough PayPal do not consider that proof of delivery meets the requirement to show proof of postage which is why it is important to know what you need to defend a claim.

    It's all covered here in this sticky thread

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=3146680
    I'm the Board Guide for the Ebay Board , Charities Board , Dosh & Disability , Up Your Income and the Local MoneySaving-England board which means I'm a volunteer to help the boards run smoothly, and I can move posts there. However, do remember, board guides don't read every post. If you spot an illegal or inappropriate post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com (it's not part of my role to deal with this). Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com
    New to Forum? Guide
    • Marksfish
    • By Marksfish 18th Oct 17, 5:30 PM
    • 178 Posts
    • 34 Thanks
    Marksfish
    Full tracking, from drop off at the shop to doorstep delivery, how is that not compliant? That is your proof of posting and delivery. Couldn't give them any more.
    • glentoran99
    • By glentoran99 18th Oct 17, 5:34 PM
    • 4,725 Posts
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    glentoran99
    phone them
    • soolin
    • By soolin 18th Oct 17, 6:26 PM
    • 59,298 Posts
    • 42,030 Thanks
    soolin
    phone them
    Originally posted by glentoran99
    After several years I doubt they would consider an appeal.
    I'm the Board Guide for the Ebay Board , Charities Board , Dosh & Disability , Up Your Income and the Local MoneySaving-England board which means I'm a volunteer to help the boards run smoothly, and I can move posts there. However, do remember, board guides don't read every post. If you spot an illegal or inappropriate post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com (it's not part of my role to deal with this). Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com
    New to Forum? Guide
    • glentoran99
    • By glentoran99 18th Oct 17, 6:28 PM
    • 4,725 Posts
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    glentoran99
    After several years I doubt they would consider an appeal.
    Originally posted by soolin


    Years? Think ive missed that somewhere
    • molerat
    • By molerat 18th Oct 17, 8:18 PM
    • 17,110 Posts
    • 11,262 Thanks
    molerat
    Years? Think ive missed that somewhere
    Originally posted by glentoran99
    I don't sell and accept Paypal now. A few years ago I sold an item ....................
    Originally posted by Marksfish
    ........................................
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