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    • hounslowfish
    • By hounslowfish 12th Oct 17, 12:38 PM
    • 42Posts
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    hounslowfish
    Agent and Landlord trying to force new tenancy contract - what if we refuse to sign?
    • #1
    • 12th Oct 17, 12:38 PM
    Agent and Landlord trying to force new tenancy contract - what if we refuse to sign? 12th Oct 17 at 12:38 PM
    We are reaching the end of our 12 month AST tenancy, and we wish to move to a periodic tenancy to give us the flexibility to buy a house.

    The landlord and agent are refusing to agree to this, and want to try to force us to sign a new 12 month contract. We are very unhappy about that, as it scuppers our house-buying plans.

    We know that there is nothing the landlord can do to stop a periodic tenancy coming into force automatically, if we simply remain in the property and refuse to sign this contract. We also know that the landlord can serve us with a section 21 notice, giving us 2 months notice to leave.

    We don't think the landlord would do this (their concern about the periodic tenancy is that they don't want us to move out!), but nevertheless it feels like playing Chicken, and we hate the feeling of uncertainty and the breakdown in relations with the landlord.

    I am wondering if anyone here has been in a similar situation and can give advice. What does it feel like to have a 21 notice served on you, and what happens if we refuse to move out?

    And can anyone explain why a landlord would behave like this to good tenants who look after the property and pay above-market rent?! :-(
Page 1
    • Grenage
    • By Grenage 12th Oct 17, 12:43 PM
    • 1,324 Posts
    • 1,254 Thanks
    Grenage
    • #2
    • 12th Oct 17, 12:43 PM
    • #2
    • 12th Oct 17, 12:43 PM
    Don't sign it; the landlord is very, very unlikely to issue a section 21 for this reason.

    Say that you're sorry they feel that way, and if they feel the need to lose a reliable tenant, then so be it.
    • saajan_12
    • By saajan_12 12th Oct 17, 12:53 PM
    • 1,010 Posts
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    saajan_12
    • #3
    • 12th Oct 17, 12:53 PM
    • #3
    • 12th Oct 17, 12:53 PM
    Well done on knowing your stuff, few clarifications below.

    We also know that the landlord can serve us with a section 21 notice, giving us 2 months notice to leave. - not quite, its 2 months notice of intention to apply for a possession order. (a) they might not follow through on their intention, and (b) after the two months you don't have to leave, thats the date the LL can apply to the court for a possession order, which itself will take more time.

    We don't think the landlord would do this (their concern about the periodic tenancy is that they don't want us to move out!), but nevertheless it feels like playing Chicken, and we hate the feeling of uncertainty and the breakdown in relations with the landlord.- You can try to explain to the LL that you'll still give notice on a periodic and the eviction doesn't make sense, the agents are just after additional renewal fees.

    I am wondering if anyone here has been in a similar situation and can give advice. What does it feel like to have a 21 notice served on you, and what happens if we refuse to move out?- I haven't been there so don't know what it feels like, but after the Section 21 notice expires
    1. LL can apply to court for a possession order.
    2. If the Section 21 notice is valid (it may not be) the court grants a possession order giving some time before the possession date.
    3. After the possession date passes, the LL can apply for a bailiff warrant.
    4. The bailiffs attend and you actually HAVE to leave.


    And can anyone explain why a landlord would behave like this to good tenants who look after the property and pay above-market rent?! :-(- In some rental markets a particular renewal date might work better e.g. to keep in line with academic years for the student market. Some areas might be difficult to rerent in the winter (supposedly..). Otherwise this is likely driven by the agent and the renewal fees they receive. The LL often blindly follows the LA or is convinced by their arguments for preferring renewal.
    Originally posted by hounslowfish
    Last edited by saajan_12; 12-10-2017 at 1:00 PM.
    • Slithery
    • By Slithery 12th Oct 17, 12:56 PM
    • 365 Posts
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    Slithery
    • #4
    • 12th Oct 17, 12:56 PM
    • #4
    • 12th Oct 17, 12:56 PM
    And can anyone explain why a landlord would behave like this to good tenants who look after the property and pay above-market rent?! :-(
    Originally posted by hounslowfish
    Some BTL mortgage and insurance policies require the LL to have fixed-term contracts, but most of the time it's the agent pushing for the renewal as they can then charge both you and the landlord for the privilege. Also the agents aren't worried about a void, as it means they can charge even more fees to the landlord and new tenant.

    Have you actually spoken to the LL about this, or has all communication been through the agents?
    • Out, Vile Jelly
    • By Out, Vile Jelly 12th Oct 17, 1:07 PM
    • 3,710 Posts
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    Out, Vile Jelly
    • #5
    • 12th Oct 17, 1:07 PM
    • #5
    • 12th Oct 17, 1:07 PM
    Yes I have been in this situation and I contacted the LL directly in writing, explaining that we would both avoid the renewal fee but remain on mutually agreeable terms, so why bother? He agreed and the agents shut up.

    Don't take the agent's word that the LL wants this, check directly yourself.
    They are an EYESORES!!!!
    • wesleyad
    • By wesleyad 12th Oct 17, 1:53 PM
    • 161 Posts
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    wesleyad
    • #6
    • 12th Oct 17, 1:53 PM
    • #6
    • 12th Oct 17, 1:53 PM
    Just to add I had it the other way round (me being the LL), I found out from a neighbour that the tenants were being pushed for renewal that they didn't want, having been told that I was insisting on it from the LA. I contacted them directly and we agreed there was no need to renew. I would have lost a perfectly good tenant due to the LA (who were soon released from their contract).

    You have to remember for the LA the best outcome is for the tenant to leave. They then can charge their re-let fee, and all the "admin" fees they take from the new tenant. They already have all the marketing from the last time so it's easy money. The second best outcome is a renewal fee from both the tenant and the LL. Worst possible outcome is a periodic tenancy.
    • SuboJvR
    • By SuboJvR 12th Oct 17, 2:07 PM
    • 458 Posts
    • 325 Thanks
    SuboJvR
    • #7
    • 12th Oct 17, 2:07 PM
    • #7
    • 12th Oct 17, 2:07 PM
    I just wanted to second the advice (or third the advice!) to make sure you are getting this from the landlord, and not from the letting agent speaking for the landlord.

    The landlord may not be as insistent on getting you to re-sign, it's more likely it is the LA insisting on it.
    • Cardinal-Red
    • By Cardinal-Red 12th Oct 17, 4:26 PM
    • 645 Posts
    • 145 Thanks
    Cardinal-Red
    • #8
    • 12th Oct 17, 4:26 PM
    • #8
    • 12th Oct 17, 4:26 PM
    A couple of years ago we were in a similar situation. Must sign or LL will serve notice.

    We also wanted to buy, like you, and would not commit to a new tenancy. The LA offered us, and I'm not kidding, a new 12 month contract with a one month notice period for us.

    It was immediately obvious what they were up to.
    The above facts belong to everybody; the opinions belong to me; the distinction is yours to draw...
    • martinsurrey
    • By martinsurrey 12th Oct 17, 4:33 PM
    • 3,225 Posts
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    martinsurrey
    • #9
    • 12th Oct 17, 4:33 PM
    • #9
    • 12th Oct 17, 4:33 PM
    Yes I have been in this situation and I contacted the LL directly in writing, explaining that we would both avoid the renewal fee but remain on mutually agreeable terms, so why bother? He agreed and the agents shut up.

    Don't take the agent's word that the LL wants this, check directly yourself.
    Originally posted by Out, Vile Jelly
    this 100%

    I was in exactly the same situation as the OP when I was first looking to buy

    Typed up, and send a letter and emailed it to both landlord and agent along the lines of what you said, and LL agreed it was by far the best outcome.
    • theartfullodger
    • By theartfullodger 12th Oct 17, 6:45 PM
    • 9,117 Posts
    • 12,084 Thanks
    theartfullodger
    Herewith links showing 40+ week time to evict, on average...
    https://forums.landlordzone.co.uk/forum/residential-letting-questions/77351-time-to-repossess-statistics
    • G_M
    • By G_M 12th Oct 17, 11:18 PM
    • 42,315 Posts
    • 49,159 Thanks
    G_M
    See


    * Ending/renewing an AST: what happens when a fixed term ends? How can a LL or tenant end a tenancy? What is a periodic tenancy?

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