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  • FIRST POST
    • CateO
    • By CateO 12th Oct 17, 10:38 AM
    • 3Posts
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    CateO
    Mis-selling a car on the new VED
    • #1
    • 12th Oct 17, 10:38 AM
    Mis-selling a car on the new VED 12th Oct 17 at 10:38 AM
    Looking to buy an ex-demo car, registered July 2017 I asked several times that the car list price is less than £40K as I don't wish to pay the additional road tax. However, although having assurances from the sales team that it is less than £40K I am still not convinced. I have not been shown any documentation.
    I checked with the DVLA using the number plate and it indicates that the additional VED applies. Is this miss-selling? How would I get evidence when I need to buy road tax next year if this is the case?
Page 1
    • Herzlos
    • By Herzlos 12th Oct 17, 10:55 AM
    • 6,066 Posts
    • 5,509 Thanks
    Herzlos
    • #2
    • 12th Oct 17, 10:55 AM
    • #2
    • 12th Oct 17, 10:55 AM
    Have you asked them what the VED is, rather than the list price?

    You'll need to buy the road tax when you buy it, so potentially you can tax it before you pay the balance, and show them the tax at the time. The banding is presumably on the V5 somewhere, too. So you can safely ignore the dealer and look for it in black and white.

    How much is it going to affect your decision? Assume it's the higher band.
    • Tarambor
    • By Tarambor 12th Oct 17, 11:02 AM
    • 1,742 Posts
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    Tarambor
    • #3
    • 12th Oct 17, 11:02 AM
    • #3
    • 12th Oct 17, 11:02 AM
    Doesn't whether it comes into the bracket get decided by the manufacturer's stated RRP rather than what the actual sale price when you do a deal is? It seems to me it would be an administrative nightmare from DVLA's point of view to do the latter. I would also suspect that for a pre-reg car that when deciding its VED bracket it is based on the RRP, not the trade price the dealership would have paid at that point in time.
    • CateO
    • By CateO 12th Oct 17, 11:20 AM
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    CateO
    • #4
    • 12th Oct 17, 11:20 AM
    • #4
    • 12th Oct 17, 11:20 AM
    I'll ask them what the VED is and try that tact. As it is from the main dealer they can buy the VED rather than buying it myself (as would do for a private sale). As far as I can tell the first year is calculated on emissions, its years 2-6 that the additional tax applies.

    "The law defines it as the cars list price. The list price is the price of the car before the ‘on-the-road’ charges are added, such as a delivery charge, new vehicle registration fee, number plates and fuel"

    When I calculated it myself it is £40,040.
    • bengalknights
    • By bengalknights 12th Oct 17, 11:24 AM
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    bengalknights
    • #5
    • 12th Oct 17, 11:24 AM
    • #5
    • 12th Oct 17, 11:24 AM
    The VED is based on published RRP the dealer wont be able to change that.
    • daveyjp
    • By daveyjp 12th Oct 17, 12:18 PM
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    daveyjp
    • #6
    • 12th Oct 17, 12:18 PM
    • #6
    • 12th Oct 17, 12:18 PM
    The tax due is whatever is on the V5c (and you state you have checked this via the DVLA website and extra is payable). You need not concern yourself with how this is calculated.

    If you are happy with the figure buy the car, if not walk.
    • MEM62
    • By MEM62 12th Oct 17, 12:21 PM
    • 1,394 Posts
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    MEM62
    • #7
    • 12th Oct 17, 12:21 PM
    • #7
    • 12th Oct 17, 12:21 PM
    Is this miss-selling?
    Originally posted by CateO
    Probably the most mis-used phrase on these forums. Miss selling applies to certain financial products. You cannot be 'mis sold' a car.

    Do not expect a car salesman to be honest. They are not subject to the same checks and balances or regulation as people selling in the financial sector. You have already done you own research and you know what the VED situation is. A car dealer will give you all sorts of BS to sell a car. Is that unethical- yes. Is it mis selling - no!
    Last edited by MEM62; 12-10-2017 at 2:55 PM.
    • Joe Horner
    • By Joe Horner 12th Oct 17, 1:39 PM
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    Joe Horner
    • #8
    • 12th Oct 17, 1:39 PM
    • #8
    • 12th Oct 17, 1:39 PM
    Probably the most miss-used phrase on these forums. Miss selling applies to certain financial products. You cannot be 'miss sold' a car.
    Originally posted by MEM62
    Not sure "Mis-selling" is actually defined at all. It seems to have appeared as a phrase over the past 10 years or so as a polite way of saying "fraudulently sold" in the dame way as MPs "mis-speak" rather than lying. The fact it was introduced in relation to financial products doesn't preclude its use elsewhere, such as misrepresenting the VED situation of a car to gain a sale!

    That said, OP, there's no mis-selling here because nothing's been sold yet. You're aware of the issue before committing to buy, so going ahead then claiming the information you knew was wrong as a material factor in the decision would be dishonest and, potentially, fraudulent yourself if you tried to claim anything for it!
    Last edited by Joe Horner; 12-10-2017 at 2:28 PM.
    • jimjames
    • By jimjames 12th Oct 17, 1:42 PM
    • 12,236 Posts
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    jimjames
    • #9
    • 12th Oct 17, 1:42 PM
    • #9
    • 12th Oct 17, 1:42 PM
    I'll ask them what the VED is and try that tact. As it is from the main dealer they can buy the VED rather than buying it myself (as would do for a private sale).
    Originally posted by CateO
    Won't the dealer just have to give you the money as it's not new? I thought you'd still need to do the tax yourself via DVLA
    Remember the saying: if it looks too good to be true it almost certainly is.
    • CateO
    • By CateO 12th Oct 17, 2:07 PM
    • 3 Posts
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    CateO
    Update I've been back in contact with the dealership stating that I had concerns that the car was over the threshold, and that I had checked this with the DVLA. Result is that rather sheepishly they admitted that it was over the threshold. At least now I can make an informed decision to part with the money or not. But it is my choice and not being miss-informed.

    Isn't there a difference of not giving you the information and an incorrect answer to a directly asked question. I work in a highly regulated industry and those that lie to a government inspector can be prosecuted (fines and prison sentence) so why is it permissible in retailing?
    • MEM62
    • By MEM62 12th Oct 17, 3:06 PM
    • 1,394 Posts
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    MEM62
    Not sure "Mis-selling" is actually defined at all. It seems to have appeared as a phrase over the past 10 years or so as a polite way of saying "fraudulently sold" in the dame way as MPs "mis-speak" rather than lying. The fact it was introduced in relation to financial products doesn't preclude its use elsewhere, such as misrepresenting the VED situation of a car to gain a sale!
    Originally posted by Joe Horner
    You are absolutely right, it is not defined. However, when used in the context of these forums many posters appear to be under the belief that if they can label something as miss-sold then they are entitled to the similar redress as would be the applied to certain financial products. (ie That the successful classification as mis-sold is a golden ticket to a refund and/or financial compensation) In most cases there is no mis-selling involved - only mis buying resulting in buyers remorse which posters then seek to address by attaching the term mis-sold to their purchase.

    And in respect of vehicle purchases in particular, only the most naïve of individuals would ever take what they are told by a car salesman as gospel.
    Last edited by MEM62; 12-10-2017 at 3:08 PM.
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 12th Oct 17, 3:33 PM
    • 15,700 Posts
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    AdrianC
    My head hurts.

    You haven't been mis-sold anything, because you haven't BOUGHT anything yet.

    All that's happened so far is that you've done some research before purchase, and confirmed the information you were seeking. Congratulations.
    • bigadaj
    • By bigadaj 12th Oct 17, 3:35 PM
    • 10,803 Posts
    • 7,100 Thanks
    bigadaj
    Update I've been back in contact with the dealership stating that I had concerns that the car was over the threshold, and that I had checked this with the DVLA. Result is that rather sheepishly they admitted that it was over the threshold. At least now I can make an informed decision to part with the money or not. But it is my choice and not being miss-informed.

    Isn't there a difference of not giving you the information and an incorrect answer to a directly asked question. I work in a highly regulated industry and those that lie to a government inspector can be prosecuted (fines and prison sentence) so why is it permissible in retailing?
    Originally posted by CateO
    You can take civil action against them if you feel strongly enough.

    Dependent on what industry you work in I'd have thought the impact of lying would be somewhat more dramatic than costing a little extra in operating a vehicle.
    • bigadaj
    • By bigadaj 12th Oct 17, 3:39 PM
    • 10,803 Posts
    • 7,100 Thanks
    bigadaj
    Most Mis selling, whether that be in financial products or elsewhere, is actually Mis buying, and frequently it's just not very bright people accepting a deal that isn't very favourable.

    The whole PPI and related financial Mis selling has been a huge boon to the government, cheaper than helicopter money, far more efficient than Bank of England QE, as the not very intelligent people who paid out money unnecessarily previously are just the sort of people who now spend their free money on more crap and so provide a boost to the wider economy.
    • missile
    • By missile 12th Oct 17, 4:01 PM
    • 9,021 Posts
    • 4,388 Thanks
    missile
    You know the threshold is £40,000 list price.
    You know the make and model of the car you are buying.
    How hard can it be to check the list price on the manufacturer's website?
    "A nation's greatness is measured by how it treats its weakest members." ~ Mahatma Gandhi
    Ride hard or stay home
    • BeenThroughItAll
    • By BeenThroughItAll 12th Oct 17, 4:06 PM
    • 4,614 Posts
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    BeenThroughItAll
    If you're 'looking to buy' and this is an issue, then just walk away.


    Sorted.
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 12th Oct 17, 4:26 PM
    • 15,700 Posts
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    AdrianC
    You know the threshold is £40,000 list price.
    You know the make and model of the car you are buying.
    How hard can it be to check the list price on the manufacturer's website?
    Originally posted by missile
    The relevant list price includes all fitted optional extras - that can be a LOT harder to determine for a used car - and "ex-demo" is used. But, at the end of the day, any dealer should be very used to quoting the figure, because it's exactly the same as the P11D figure for company car users.

    I strongly suspect that the issue here is that the list of the base car did indeed come under the £40k threshold, but the fitted options put it over that. If that is the case, then I don't think the dealer have done anything wrong at all, bar give a slightly-hasty answer without fully checking first.
    Last edited by AdrianC; 12-10-2017 at 4:28 PM.
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