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  • FIRST POST
    • Mummy2211
    • By Mummy2211 11th Oct 17, 7:13 PM
    • 15Posts
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    Mummy2211
    Employer not paying TAX or NI
    • #1
    • 11th Oct 17, 7:13 PM
    Employer not paying TAX or NI 11th Oct 17 at 7:13 PM
    Well what a ball ache..

    So my partner started this new job in June - All seemed good when he started, although i smelt a rat! (been burnt alot in the passed so i dont trust many people)

    Anyway- 1st week into my partner starting his job, I asked for his wage slip, Cant you imagen my face when he Said " Oh bob, dosnt do wage slips".. I wasn't sure I heard him right so I asked again, But yes that's what I hear, apparently his boss dosnt do wage slips... Now I am defiantly hearing the alarm bells, So I told my partner that this is wrong, and he needs to get these, other wise how will we know what Tax and NI he is paying or indeed he is being paid correctly.
    Anyway a lot of other things have happened, to make me think this company is a bit of a fraud.

    So I contacted HMRC to see if indeed tax has been paid, and I wasn't surprised when they said that no tax has paid, and also that he has no employment on his account since he left his old job..

    I have asked twice now for my partner to have wage slips (I went the bosses wife as she does the accounts) and she said she would get them sorted, but as of yet we haven't had them, I have advised her that I need them ASAP to send to our mortgage company, but the last message has gone unread.

    I have then found out that the company vehicles some of them are not even TAXED!

    This is just going from bad to worse, and I really do not know why my partner is even still there, he works about 80hrs a week and gets paid nothing for it..

    Anyway - I have been advised to talk to ACAS, but has anyone else had this? or any other advise would be really helpful right now, as I am so worried we are going to have a awful tax bill to be paid.

    There is no work contract either!!
Page 1
    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 11th Oct 17, 7:56 PM
    • 3,776 Posts
    • 6,188 Thanks
    sangie595
    • #2
    • 11th Oct 17, 7:56 PM
    • #2
    • 11th Oct 17, 7:56 PM
    Well what a ball ache..

    So my partner started this new job in June - All seemed good when he started, although i smelt a rat! (been burnt alot in the passed so i dont trust many people)

    Anyway- 1st week into my partner starting his job, I asked for his wage slip, Cant you imagen my face when he Said " Oh bob, dosnt do wage slips".. I wasn't sure I heard him right so I asked again, But yes that's what I hear, apparently his boss dosnt do wage slips... Now I am defiantly hearing the alarm bells, So I told my partner that this is wrong, and he needs to get these, other wise how will we know what Tax and NI he is paying or indeed he is being paid correctly.
    Anyway a lot of other things have happened, to make me think this company is a bit of a fraud.

    So I contacted HMRC to see if indeed tax has been paid, and I wasn't surprised when they said that no tax has paid, and also that he has no employment on his account since he left his old job..

    I have asked twice now for my partner to have wage slips (I went the bosses wife as she does the accounts) and she said she would get them sorted, but as of yet we haven't had them, I have advised her that I need them ASAP to send to our mortgage company, but the last message has gone unread.

    I have then found out that the company vehicles some of them are not even TAXED!

    This is just going from bad to worse, and I really do not know why my partner is even still there, he works about 80hrs a week and gets paid nothing for it..

    Anyway - I have been advised to talk to ACAS, but has anyone else had this? or any other advise would be really helpful right now, as I am so worried we are going to have a awful tax bill to be paid.

    There is no work contract either!!
    Originally posted by Mummy2211
    There is a contract. He's working. He's getting paid. That's a contract.

    Yes there are scam artists out there. But, much as he is your partner, it's not your business. If his deductions are not being paid, then yes, that's a problem. However, despite so called live updates, I've known HMRC to be wrong before now. But this is his problem. It may be a rubbish job. Paying little. Or whatever. But it's his job. He needs to decide for himself, not have his partner fight his battles for him. They aren't your payslips that are missing. It isn't your tax or NI ( and HMRC shouldn't be talking to you about this). If he isn't listening to you, why on earth would be listen to us through you? I understand your are worried, and why. But he needs to do this - or not.

    If he wants advice on this, he should be posting...
    • TELLIT01
    • By TELLIT01 11th Oct 17, 8:10 PM
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    TELLIT01
    • #3
    • 11th Oct 17, 8:10 PM
    • #3
    • 11th Oct 17, 8:10 PM
    Your partner needs to contact HMRC himself and explain the situation i.e. no payslips and nothing on HMRC systems to indicate he has been paying tax and NI. I thought all that stuff had to be updated in real-time now.
    What actually shocks me just as much as the situation your partner is in, is the fact that HMRC would discuss his tax / NI situation with you.
    • Mummy2211
    • By Mummy2211 11th Oct 17, 9:00 PM
    • 15 Posts
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    Mummy2211
    • #4
    • 11th Oct 17, 9:00 PM
    • #4
    • 11th Oct 17, 9:00 PM
    I know this is HIS problem, but as he is my partner why wouldn't I want to help him out? After all we live together, we are a family, so a problem shared is a problem halved! He works all the hours under the sun, and hardly ever gets time to stay on hold for 40mins to HRMC, luckily I am able to talk on his behalf its called an Agent, where you can appointment someone on your behalf, which we did because I had all the information needed anyway. He is a driver, So he is limited to time he gets to use the phone.

    Although I am slightly upset that you have both jumped on me about trying to help him out, When I was asking If there was any other advise out there, something that we are able to do, or someone to talk to, But I've actually got more friendly help from my mother and baby site. Isn't as rare as I though it would be.

    But I hope I have no answered you questions as to how HMRC have actually spoken to me, and why I am doing it..
    Last edited by Mummy2211; 11-10-2017 at 9:04 PM. Reason: spelling
    • Dazed and confused
    • By Dazed and confused 11th Oct 17, 9:16 PM
    • 1,751 Posts
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    Dazed and confused
    • #5
    • 11th Oct 17, 9:16 PM
    • #5
    • 11th Oct 17, 9:16 PM
    If hubby (or you on his behalf (with his permission of course )) looks at his Personal Tax Account on gov.uk he should be able to see what information, if any, this employer has sent to HMRC.

    If he keeps getting told they (the employer) are sorting it then this is an easy way to check if they have actually sent anything through to HMRC.

    I'm not sure HMRC would be allowed to tell you if the tax or National Insurance has been paid as that would surely be confidential between them and the employer and businessess sometimes have cashflow problems, the important thing is that the employer confirms what he has been paid and any tax or NI they have deducted.
    • Savvy_Sue
    • By Savvy_Sue 11th Oct 17, 9:28 PM
    • 37,731 Posts
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    Savvy_Sue
    • #6
    • 11th Oct 17, 9:28 PM
    • #6
    • 11th Oct 17, 9:28 PM
    If there are untaxed vehicles, are they also uninsured? Are MOTs up to date?
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    • Mummy2211
    • By Mummy2211 11th Oct 17, 9:32 PM
    • 15 Posts
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    Mummy2211
    • #7
    • 11th Oct 17, 9:32 PM
    • #7
    • 11th Oct 17, 9:32 PM
    We have logged on online to check what information is on there, But it is only showing his old employer, which he left in June this year, HRMC have just confirmed that his is not down as working at said company he Is at, They only have his previous employment information.
    He hasn't said anything to his work just yet, as we have asked for the Wage slips, to see what that shows, Although these are being worked on, as The company don't actually sent them wage slips at all anyway, So these will need to be made up from scratch. There are about 5 other workers there also. So my partner is not the only one, But previously they only ever had 2-3 working there, but they said that in the years they have been working there, non of them have had a wage slip, But I don't understand how they have got around the end of the year P60. I am hoping this is an error some where along the line, But without having any sort of evidence that is been paid, its looking unlikely..
    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 11th Oct 17, 10:14 PM
    • 3,776 Posts
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    sangie595
    • #8
    • 11th Oct 17, 10:14 PM
    • #8
    • 11th Oct 17, 10:14 PM
    I know this is HIS problem, but as he is my partner why wouldn't I want to help him out? After all we live together, we are a family, so a problem shared is a problem halved! He works all the hours under the sun, and hardly ever gets time to stay on hold for 40mins to HRMC, luckily I am able to talk on his behalf its called an Agent, where you can appointment someone on your behalf, which we did because I had all the information needed anyway. He is a driver, So he is limited to time he gets to use the phone.

    Although I am slightly upset that you have both jumped on me about trying to help him out, When I was asking If there was any other advise out there, something that we are able to do, or someone to talk to, But I've actually got more friendly help from my mother and baby site. Isn't as rare as I though it would be.

    But I hope I have no answered you questions as to how HMRC have actually spoken to me, and why I am doing it..
    Originally posted by Mummy2211
    Yes. But nowhere does it say that HE thinks he has a problem! YOU think he has a problem. If he has a problem, then he needs to say what that problem is and he needs to deal with the problem that he has with his employer. We do actually appreciate that there are bad employers out there (whatever that means), but the fact is that HE is accepting this. He is working 80 hours a week. He is paid "next to nothing" for it. And I assume that he is doing that for you and his child? This has nothing to do with whether you are trying to help him out. It has to do with his right to self-determination. People accept some pretty dire things to support their family. Maybe we don't think they should. Maybe you don't think they should. But this is his decision. It stops, if indeed there is something wrong, when HE says it should.

    The truth is that, as I said, despite the so-called "live" tax system I have regularly come across people who have not had their tax records up to date due to HMRC systems. And as for the vehicle tax - how could you possibly know? Tax discs are no longer displayed, and DVLC do not disclose such information to random people.

    Youi may be right. Maybe things are wrong. But he needs to care about that. Because it is up to him to do something about it. And sometimes people have bigger priorities. In the end, that is their decision. And if he wants to ask his employer about these issues - he needs to do the asking. And if he wants to report his concerns, he needs to do the reporting.
    • Mummy2211
    • By Mummy2211 11th Oct 17, 10:34 PM
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    Mummy2211
    • #9
    • 11th Oct 17, 10:34 PM
    • #9
    • 11th Oct 17, 10:34 PM
    1st thing, Anyone can see any car tax, It takes 2 seconds to put a registration into the Gov Website and it will bring you up if that car is Taxed and MOT, it is there for any Jo Blogs to look at, Go and have a look, put your Registration in, you will see that at no stage was It hard, and that you next door neighbour is free to do the same check on your car also.

    My partner knows there is a problem, and he knows and has agreed for me to check out his, tax, Because like I have said before, Because he is a driver, he has limited time for long phone calls, and when he is home, he is catching up with our children, So I do not see why you find it so much of a problem that I am able to help him out? We are a team, and while I am able to have a little bit of time, I am able to check this out for him, and let him know what I have found, So that he knows what is going on, and when he needs to talk to his employer he will know, Its hardly me fighting his battles, its about working together and helping where I can..

    I am not sure, why you see this as so wrong?! I'm glad I am able to help him, as I know he would do the same for me should I need him too.


    Yes he does work all these hours, to provide for the family- But that was due to reasons in his previous job, where he took a job he was promised more than what has happened. But that has nothing to do with the advise I was asking in the OP.
    • Savvy_Sue
    • By Savvy_Sue 11th Oct 17, 10:36 PM
    • 37,731 Posts
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    Savvy_Sue
    And as for the vehicle tax - how could you possibly know? Tax discs are no longer displayed, and DVLC do not disclose such information to random people.
    Originally posted by sangie595
    Actually, that's not true. DVLA won't tell you who the registered keeper is unless you have 'good cause', but you can check tax, MOT and insurance status with nothing more than the registration number. https://www.gov.uk/get-vehicle-information-from-dvla
    Still knitting!
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    • TBagpuss
    • By TBagpuss 12th Oct 17, 12:17 PM
    • 5,938 Posts
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    TBagpuss
    Your partner's employers must provide him with payslips. https://www.gov.uk/payslips
    IT may be worth his flagging this up - not as a 'you're running a scam" but more "I was looking for information about other ways to prove me income and find this - it looks as though the company could be in trouble if pay-slips are not provided, can we sort this before that happens"

    He also needs the pay slips as if they show that the employer was deducting tax and NI,that will (I believe ) protect him if it turns out they didn't actually pay HMRC. If he has no payslips and no proof, then he could lose out longer terms in relation to pension or benefits rights.

    He needs to make sure that he does not drive a vehicle which is untaxed or uninsured - although there can be a defence to the offence of driving without insurance where the driver is an employee and driving their employee's vehicle for work, (and the employer can then be prosecuted) but obviously he wants to avoid being in a position wher he has to fight that!

    Is he looking for a new job?

    Until he gets pay slips in place, I'd suggest doing a calculation to see what his tax liability is likely to be, and putting that aside each month, if you possibly can. That way, in a worst case scenario, if you do get a tax bill and can't prove the employer was deducting tax, you can at least pay the bill.
    • Pennywise
    • By Pennywise 12th Oct 17, 12:25 PM
    • 9,184 Posts
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    Pennywise
    Is he looking for a new job?
    Originally posted by TBagpuss
    Is the most important thing. He NEEDS to get out of there as soon as possible. These issues aren't going to resolve themselves. You/OH can't force the employer to tax their vehicles. You can't force them to do the payroll properly. You can't force them to do whatever else they're doing wrong (and they will be doing other things wrong). Trying to change the employer ways will be an uphill struggle that's just not worth it. He needs to get out, and get out soon. If he's not very actively looking for other jobs, that's his Number 1 priority so he can put it behind him.
    • bugslet
    • By bugslet 12th Oct 17, 12:45 PM
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    bugslet
    And technically he will be in breach of British Domestic Hours. People imagine that because he is in a van and it has no tachograph that there are no hours regulations, but there are. Both he and the employer could be done, though it's highly unlikely.
    Last edited by bugslet; 12-10-2017 at 3:21 PM. Reason: Spelling
    • maisie cat
    • By maisie cat 12th Oct 17, 12:53 PM
    • 240 Posts
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    maisie cat
    Many years ago I had an employer who deducted tax & NI and didn't pass it on, I now have a hole in my NI record as a result. Thankfully I only worked for him for a year but he never did pay HMRC so the OP is right to be concerned. As HMRC have been informed this will be flagged somewhere I would think and "Bob" might well find himself on the receiving end of an investigation. Untaxed vehicles can be reported online I think
    • TELLIT01
    • By TELLIT01 12th Oct 17, 3:10 PM
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    TELLIT01

    Although I am slightly upset that you have both jumped on me about trying to help him out,
    Originally posted by Mummy2211
    I wasn't intending to be seen as jumping on you for trying to help. Your original post didn't mention anything about acting formally on his behalf, which is why I said he needed to speak to them himself. I accept it's often difficult to provide all information to the board from the start.
    • ACG
    • By ACG 12th Oct 17, 3:48 PM
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    ACG
    If you push this too much, the employer may well get rid of your partner. As he has been there less than 2 years, an employer can get rid of an employee for more or less anything (there are a few exceptions such as medical issues, racism etc) and you would have no rights to a tribunal etc.

    Best case scenario is your partner finds a new job.

    It saves you wasting time and energy on something you are never going to win. If the employer is prepared to cut corners like you suggest then they wont hesitate in getting rid of your partner.
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    • bugslet
    • By bugslet 12th Oct 17, 8:31 PM
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    bugslet
    I have no problem with him finding a new job before informing HMRC, but they need to do so. I pay my taxes, try and be a decent employer, but I have to compete against firms like this and it isn't possible, they work for so much less.
    • Samsung_Note2
    • By Samsung_Note2 13th Oct 17, 9:02 AM
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    Samsung_Note2
    Is he a Ground worker by any chance..?

    Sorry might have missed this,but is he as far as the employer is concerned,self employed.
    • bugslet
    • By bugslet 13th Oct 17, 9:20 AM
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    bugslet

    Because he is a driver, he has limited time for long phone calls, and when he is home, he is catching up with our children, .
    Originally posted by Mummy2211
    Somewhere else the OP mentions working 80 hours, sounds like a courier company to me.
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