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  • FIRST POST
    • chrishgt4
    • By chrishgt4 11th Oct 17, 1:21 PM
    • 39Posts
    • 10Thanks
    chrishgt4
    Overstay of 12/2 minutes
    • #1
    • 11th Oct 17, 1:21 PM
    Overstay of 12/2 minutes 11th Oct 17 at 1:21 PM
    Hi,

    I have had a ticket for an overstay of 12 minutes.

    This was from Parking Eye using ANPR.

    I am currently entering the appeal and my question is this;

    a) Does the 10 minute grace period really exist and is it enforceable? Should I include any mention of it in my appeal?

    b) Assuming that the above is true, this means it was a 2 minute overstay. Is it therefore worth arguing that:
    i) finding a parking space and exiting the car park would take longer than that, therefore there was no contravention
    ii) requesting proof that the 2 cameras (separate entrance/exit) were synchronised on the date of the alleged offense

    Also, regarding the signage - is it worth arguing that being late at night (19:30 albeit in July) that the signage is not adequately lit?

    Also, the photos only show the registration clearly and not the location. Could it be argued the car was potentially elsewhere?
    Last edited by chrishgt4; 11-10-2017 at 1:25 PM.
Page 1
    • Redx
    • By Redx 11th Oct 17, 1:48 PM
    • 16,119 Posts
    • 20,203 Thanks
    Redx
    • #2
    • 11th Oct 17, 1:48 PM
    • #2
    • 11th Oct 17, 1:48 PM
    yes to all the above , but mainly for popla or in court

    read this thread as well as the NEWBIES sticky thread

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5723342

    if they failed POFA2012 as well as grace periods, use all of my adapted appeal

    if the NTK arrived within 14 days , then remove that part only , leaving the rest in , altering the wording slightly as there were 2 additional points in that appeal I adapted

    read post #1 of the NEWBIES thread to understand the appeal process, and post #3 to start drafting your popla appeal for later

    read the POPLA decisions thread backwards from the end to see similar cases that were won

    read the BPA CoP , clause #13 about GRACE PERIODS

    you are not the only one , this happens daily
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • happybagger
    • By happybagger 11th Oct 17, 1:49 PM
    • 45 Posts
    • 21 Thanks
    happybagger
    • #3
    • 11th Oct 17, 1:49 PM
    • #3
    • 11th Oct 17, 1:49 PM
    Where was this?
    • chrishgt4
    • By chrishgt4 11th Oct 17, 2:00 PM
    • 39 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    chrishgt4
    • #4
    • 11th Oct 17, 2:00 PM
    • #4
    • 11th Oct 17, 2:00 PM
    Thanks RedX

    This is my initial appeal to PE including your wording from the thread you linked:

    Also, unfortunately they sent it well within 14 days.

    The reason it relates to July is that my address on the car was incorrect so they had to track me down!

    Dear Sirs

    Re: PCN No. PCN NO

    I challenge this 'PCN' as keeper of the car.

    I believe that your signs fail the test of 'large lettering' and prominence, as established in ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis.Your unremarkable and obscure signs were not seen by the driver, are in very small print and the terms are not readable to drivers, particularly on an evening in low light conditions such as when this alleged contravention occurred.

    Also, I would like to point out that inclusive of the 10 minute grace period, this constitutes an alleged 2 minute overstay. First and foremost it would almost certainly take longer than this amount of time to both find a parking space once entering the car park, and then to exit the car park after leaving the parking space, meaning that the driver was not parked here in excess of the allowed time. Also, as the time discrepancy is so small, please can you provide evidence of the calibration of each camera on the date in question, showing that these 2 cameras were correctly synchronised.

    Clause #13 of the BPA CoP applies here and this appeal, any subsequent appeal and also any court case will have this as a prominent argument as to why this invoice should be cancelled.

    There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. You must either rely on the POFA 2012 and offer me a POPLA code, or cancel the charge.

    Should you have obtained the registered keeper's data from the DVLA without reasonable cause, please take this as formal notice that I reserve the right to sue your company and the landowner/principal, for a sum not less than £250 for any Data Protection Act breach. Your aggressive business practice and unwarranted threat of court for the ordinary matter of a driver using my car without causing any obstruction nor offence, has caused significant distress to me.

    I do not give you consent to process data relating to me or this vehicle. I deny liability for any sum at all and you must consider this letter a Section 10 Notice under the DPA. You are required to respond within 21 days. I have kept proof of submission of this appeal and look forward to your reply.

    Yours faithfully,

    Name of Keeper
    Last edited by chrishgt4; 11-10-2017 at 2:06 PM.
    • chrishgt4
    • By chrishgt4 11th Oct 17, 2:02 PM
    • 39 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    chrishgt4
    • #5
    • 11th Oct 17, 2:02 PM
    • #5
    • 11th Oct 17, 2:02 PM
    Where was this?
    Originally posted by happybagger
    It was in Huddersfield
    • Redx
    • By Redx 11th Oct 17, 2:19 PM
    • 16,119 Posts
    • 20,203 Thanks
    Redx
    • #6
    • 11th Oct 17, 2:19 PM
    • #6
    • 11th Oct 17, 2:19 PM
    Thanks RedX

    This is my initial appeal to PE including your wording from the thread you linked:

    Also, unfortunately they sent it well within 14 days.

    The reason it relates to July is that my address on the car was incorrect so they had to track me down!

    Dear Sirs

    Re: PCN No. PCN NO

    I challenge this 'PCN' as keeper of the car.

    I believe that your signs fail the test of 'large lettering' and prominence, as established in ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis.Your unremarkable and obscure signs were not seen by the driver, are in very small print and the terms are not readable to drivers, particularly on an evening in low light conditions such as when this alleged contravention occurred.

    Also, I would like to point out that inclusive of the two grace periods (before and after the parking event) outlined in the BPA CoP dated October 2015, this constitutes an alleged 12 minute overstay which falls well within the CoP you signed up to.

    First and foremost it would almost certainly take longer than 2 minutes to find a parking space once entering the car park, and then more time to exit the car park after leaving the parking space, meaning that the driver was not parked here in excess of the allowed time catered for in that BPA CoP.

    Clause #13 of the BPA CoP applies here and this appeal, any subsequent appeal and also any court case will have this as a prominent argument as to why this invoice should be cancelled.

    There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. You must either rely on the POFA 2012 and offer me a POPLA code, or cancel the charge.

    Should you have obtained the registered keeper's data from the DVLA without reasonable cause, please take this as formal notice that I reserve the right to sue your company and the landowner/principal, for a sum not less than £250 for any Data Protection Act breach. Your aggressive business practice and unwarranted threat of court for the ordinary matter of a driver using my car without causing any obstruction nor offence, has caused significant distress to me.

    I do not give you consent to process data relating to me or this vehicle. I deny liability for any sum at all and you must consider this letter a Section 10 Notice under the DPA. You are required to respond within 21 days. I have kept proof of submission of this appeal and look forward to your reply.

    Yours faithfully,

    Name of Keeper
    Originally posted by chrishgt4
    I have made suitable alterations for you , because there are TWO grace periods outlined in that BPA CoP they signed up to

    so assuming 5 minutes to park up , read the signs and obtain a ticket etc , plus OVER 10 minutes to leave the site assuming there are no obstructions like other exiting vehicles, main roads being chocker etc

    you added too much flannel and also asked for ANPR evidence, all you really ask for is cancel or popla code, any other legal arguments are in your appeal to popla later

    so I simplified it down to the basics
    Last edited by Redx; 11-10-2017 at 2:21 PM.
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • chrishgt4
    • By chrishgt4 11th Oct 17, 2:28 PM
    • 39 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    chrishgt4
    • #7
    • 11th Oct 17, 2:28 PM
    • #7
    • 11th Oct 17, 2:28 PM
    I have made suitable alterations for you , because there are TWO grace periods outlined in that BPA CoP they signed up to

    so assuming 5 minutes to park up , read the signs and obtain a ticket etc , plus OVER 10 minutes to leave the site assuming there are no obstructions like other exiting vehicles, main roads being chocker etc

    you added too much flannel and also asked for ANPR evidence, all you really ask for is cancel or popla code, any other legal arguments are in your appeal to popla later

    so I simplified it down to the basics
    Originally posted by Redx
    Thank you so much! That is extremely appreciated!

    I've submitted that appeal now so will wait for POPLA and follow up.

    I'll come back to update how I get on for anyone who visits here with a similar issue in the future.
    • Redx
    • By Redx 11th Oct 17, 7:10 PM
    • 16,119 Posts
    • 20,203 Thanks
    Redx
    • #8
    • 11th Oct 17, 7:10 PM
    • #8
    • 11th Oct 17, 7:10 PM
    read this successful thread if you get a popla code, it will help you

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5705258
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
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