Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@.

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • DoDa
    • By DoDa 11th Oct 17, 11:08 AM
    • 20Posts
    • 18Thanks
    DoDa
    Can I afford to retire at Xmas?
    • #1
    • 11th Oct 17, 11:08 AM
    Can I afford to retire at Xmas? 11th Oct 17 at 11:08 AM
    Hi,

    I am planning early retirement at the end of this year and would like the forums thoughts on my finances:

    Status: Divorced with no dependants, age 51
    Renting a room in friends house, no other financial commitment
    Current salary package cira £60,000 including pension contributions

    Assets:
    £250,000 Cash (average interest rate 2%)
    £250,000 DC Pension (20% UK Government Gilts, 5% Corporate Bonds, 7% UK property, 20% UK Equity & 48% Global Equity including Emerging Markets) and will add £3600 pa until drawdown.
    2017 new car (last one kept for 11-years and 155,000 miles)
    Deferred DB Pen (AFPS) £6,250 @ 60 + £18,750 lumpsum

    Deferred DB Pen £8,350 (RPI or 5%, 95% funded) @ 65
    Additional 4 years NI required for full state pension, will make up the missing years with voluntary NI contributions in my 60's.

    Require a minimum of £21,000 net income PA rising with inflation.
    Plan to travel for a few years, staying for a few months in each location to enjoy my passion for mountain sports (mountaineering, climbing, skiing & paragliding) I did this for 27-months a few years ago, so have a good idea what this costs. Happy with house shares, campsites, bunkhouses etc.

    I plan to send approx £75,000 in cash until I can access the DC Pension at 55.
    Take 25% PCLS to top up my cash fund (future house purchase) and then withdraw sufficient income to give a net income of £21,000.
    The amount required from the DC fund reduces at age 60 and 65, as the above DB pensions start paying out and then once the state pension starts is not longer required i.e. the DC fund can be run to zero balance by age 67.

    Does this seem realistic plan?

Page 1
    • justme111
    • By justme111 11th Oct 17, 11:34 AM
    • 2,878 Posts
    • 2,764 Thanks
    justme111
    • #2
    • 11th Oct 17, 11:34 AM
    • #2
    • 11th Oct 17, 11:34 AM
    very much so to me. do both of your db pensions plus sp give you those 21 net? suppose even if not you are likely to have about 50 k left anyway in your dc pension so if you take about 2 k yearly out of it to top other pensions up it will be about 30 years that it runs out and by then you will be close to 100 if still alive and likely to reduce your requirement by a k or two to what your db pensions and sp give you.
    congratulations for being in a position you are .
    • kidmugsy
    • By kidmugsy 11th Oct 17, 12:25 PM
    • 9,893 Posts
    • 6,670 Thanks
    kidmugsy
    • #3
    • 11th Oct 17, 12:25 PM
    • #3
    • 11th Oct 17, 12:25 PM
    Remember to take a look at whether you could usefully pay more NICs to increase your eventual state retirement pension.

    When you start drawing from your DC pension you might aim to get as much out as possible at 0% and 20% income tax to add to your house fund. That's the sort of detail that you can consider at the time.
    • ams25
    • By ams25 11th Oct 17, 12:48 PM
    • 100 Posts
    • 85 Thanks
    ams25
    • #4
    • 11th Oct 17, 12:48 PM
    • #4
    • 11th Oct 17, 12:48 PM
    How much do you intend to spend on a house purchase. That makes a difference.

    Does the 21k pa allow for major expenditure items, like new car, boiler, work on house etc. If not, I would hold a capital fund for such eventualities.

    then re-run the numbers....
    • marlot
    • By marlot 11th Oct 17, 12:55 PM
    • 3,132 Posts
    • 2,274 Thanks
    marlot
    • #5
    • 11th Oct 17, 12:55 PM
    • #5
    • 11th Oct 17, 12:55 PM
    ...
    Deferred DB Pen (AFPS) £6,250 @ 60 + £18,750 lumpsum
    Deferred DB Pen £8,350 (RPI or 5%, 95% funded) @ 65
    Additional 4 years NI required for full state pension, will make up the missing years with voluntary NI contributions in my 60's.

    Require a minimum of £21,000 net income PA rising with inflation...
    Originally posted by DoDa
    You're not far off you income requirement based just on your DB and state pensions. So even allowing for tax, and funding until the pensions kick in, I'd have thought you'd be fine.

    What I've done is an annual cash flow - for each year of retirement noting my income (before tax) then deducting my tax and other anticipated spend. This feeds into the reduction (or sometimes increase) of my savings.

    I've gradually made the model more complex - so adding inflation assumptions, and interest on my savings.
    • Triumph13
    • By Triumph13 11th Oct 17, 1:21 PM
    • 1,117 Posts
    • 1,373 Thanks
    Triumph13
    • #6
    • 11th Oct 17, 1:21 PM
    • #6
    • 11th Oct 17, 1:21 PM
    The house is the big unknown - how much are you planning to spend, when will you buy it and what impact will that have on your £21kpa? Does it go down because you no longer pay rent, up because of maintenance and mortgage payments?
    Doing a quick calculation using the whole DC fund for permanent drawdown at a very conservative 3% pa to give you your £21K pa, rising to £27k once SP kicks in would leave a gap of about £160k to bridge from cash and DB lump sum - so about £110k spare for the house purchase. If that's enough then you're laughing.
    Divert the DC lump sum to house purchase and your house fund goes up to £140k, but your post SP income drops to £25k.
    Go for a more aggressive 4% withdrawal (which is probably more reasonable as you can afford to be aggressive with so much of income covered by DB and SP long term) and the post 67 income goes back up to £26k and the house fund to £170k.
    If you plan to spend more than that on a house then you need to take out more of the DC fund (paying tax on it) and you have less DC fund providing income over the bridging period. I make it around about £210k as the most you could realistically spend on a house and still have £21k pa post 67.
    Last edited by Triumph13; 11-10-2017 at 1:25 PM.
    • enthusiasticsaver
    • By enthusiasticsaver 11th Oct 17, 1:38 PM
    • 4,827 Posts
    • 9,111 Thanks
    enthusiasticsaver
    • #7
    • 11th Oct 17, 1:38 PM
    • #7
    • 11th Oct 17, 1:38 PM
    I would say so providing the house you plan on buying is not too expensive and that your travelling does not come to more than the £21k per annum. I am interested in why you bought a brand new car though if you plan on spending a few years travelling although I guess you could mean in the UK. Maybe a camper van might have been a better idea

    I have a spreadsheet which models our income up until spa as all our pensions pay out at different ages and we took/are taking early retirement at 58. I am interested to know how you have managed to get your cash saved earning 2%.

    Your plans sound good and you have done well to build up those pensions/investments.
    2 weeks to go until early retirement in December . Debt free and mortgage free.

    I'm a Board Guide on the Debt-Free Wannabe, Mortgages, Banking and Budgeting boards. I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly. Any views are mine and not the official line of moneysavingexpert.com. Pease remember, board guides don't read every post. If you spot an illegal or inappropriate post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com
    • BBH123
    • By BBH123 11th Oct 17, 3:11 PM
    • 493 Posts
    • 761 Thanks
    BBH123
    • #8
    • 11th Oct 17, 3:11 PM
    • #8
    • 11th Oct 17, 3:11 PM
    I'd look at it a totally different way around in that I'd buy a house and then plan everything else around that. Once I knew what the house cost I'd work out the travel costs etc around that.

    It is such a major purchase and who knows what prices may be in a few years and costs aside a nomadic life of travelling and mountain sports sounds idyllic until illness, accident or a n other unexpected issue arises and then the security of a 'home' to come back to is all the more important.
    • crv1963
    • By crv1963 11th Oct 17, 3:54 PM
    • 158 Posts
    • 417 Thanks
    crv1963
    • #9
    • 11th Oct 17, 3:54 PM
    • #9
    • 11th Oct 17, 3:54 PM
    You could purchase the house before your travels depending on area/ cost and your thoughts on whether prices will go up or down. Rent it out using an agent to deal with the tenants/ repairs/ rent collection etc to provide a supplement to your income and have the knowledge that you have somewhere definite to return to?
    CRV1963- Light bulb moment Sept 15- Planning the great escape- aka retirement!
    • Drp8713
    • By Drp8713 11th Oct 17, 5:12 PM
    • 752 Posts
    • 629 Thanks
    Drp8713
    If you have no dependants, and you like travelling, and youre happy with renting a room, is a house purchase really needed?

    Round here a room costs £650 a month or £7800 a year. A 1 bed flat is £350k, so it would take 45 years to break even or age 96 in your case.

    And i assume the room includes bills whereas the flat wouldnt.
    Last edited by Drp8713; 11-10-2017 at 5:15 PM.
    • DoDa
    • By DoDa 11th Oct 17, 5:15 PM
    • 20 Posts
    • 18 Thanks
    DoDa
    Hi thanks for taking the time to respond! Here are a few answers to some of the great posts so far……
    The DB and State Pensions will just about net £21K, given no NI to pay from pension income and the DB values are from 2014 so are probably a little higher as they increase with RPI. Whatever the value is will have to be sufficient. The DC fund can be drawn down to a zero balance by age 67.
    I plan to send around £200K on a house, but don’t know where or when. I would not take on a mortgage or any other debt. Buying a house is not high on my agenda as I don’t know where I want to settle and think that the UK housing market at the very least will cool down over the next few years. Who knows maybe I’ll have another life partner by then who can share the costs of a house (I was previously happily married for 26-years). I have considered investing the house fund and using the return to rent, but feel this is too risky.
    I expect to maintain a £50K buffer throughout retirement for capital expenditure and/or ride out stock market lows.
    I expect to manage on £21K regardless of owning a house or not (rising with inflation). I may even do a bit of paid work or voluntary work when travelling to help with the budget.
    I didn’t go for a camper as will use a mixture of rented rooms, camping and bunkhouses. This way you get to meet people. Also a camper can be a security risk parked up unattended in a remote areas and I know plenty of climbers who have had them broken into. I also have a 4x4 particularly useful in winter mountain conditions.
    2% average interest achieved by having fixed some savings in December 2015 @ 2.8% and 3.1% for 4 and 5 years respectively, using all the usual MSE tricks with banks and regular savers and a large chunk on 1-year fixes at 1.85% and 1.9%, which were available in July.
    So far so good as no-one is saying NO!
    • atush
    • By atush 12th Oct 17, 12:27 PM
    • 16,371 Posts
    • 10,132 Thanks
    atush
    If you are spending 200K of your 250K cash on a house, i think you need to work a year or two longer.

    As you will be travelling, that 50K wont last long.

    I w ould decide where, and what to buy before you make any retirment moves. And if travelling, a flat could be a better idea than a house.
    • fatlaksh
    • By fatlaksh 12th Oct 17, 6:20 PM
    • 1 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    fatlaksh
    I retired just over 12months ago age 53 to spend more time in the hills and cycling. In my first year I spent 21k, the largest expenditure item by far was holidays. My total assets are similar to your own although my asset mix is different. I also have a 12k DB pension due age 60. Personally I would prefer to own a property and rent it out rather than hope the property market cools. I continue to work occasionally for my former employer, on average 2/3 days a month earning £250. I'm not ready to start spending capital yet and I quite enjoy the variety it adds to my life. Go for it, I haven't regretted it and if things don't work out as you hope then there is always the option of a bit of casual work.
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

2,937Posts Today

7,866Users online

Martin's Twitter