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    • AndyPandy76
    • By AndyPandy76 11th Oct 17, 10:42 AM
    • 8Posts
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    AndyPandy76
    Advise dealing with old debt
    • #1
    • 11th Oct 17, 10:42 AM
    Advise dealing with old debt 11th Oct 17 at 10:42 AM
    Hi there, Can anyone advise me on what I should do next. So long story short Cabot financial have bought an old debt of mine, I was previously paying them £5 month on a DMP but this stopped in 2016 as I sold my house and offered all creditors a F&F settlement. They did not accept and I heard nothing from them until recently when they sent a letter to say they were sending someone to call at my house. I immediately wrote to them telling them not to send anyone and requested the signed agreement. They have now come back to me to say the debt was too old for them to have the agreement but because it was part of a dmp at one stage they take this as acknowledgement of the account therefor am liable for it.

    So where does that leave me do I have to pay them if they can't provide me with the agreement?

    Is there a letter I can send next?

    Thanks for the help, we took desperate measures by selling our house and have used all the money to pay off debts My husband is unable to work due to ill health this is not going to improve as it is a progressive illness I am limited to what I can work as I need to care for him and also our children. We have no free money we just live day to day on what we have.
Page 1
    • StopIt
    • By StopIt 11th Oct 17, 12:11 PM
    • 1,117 Posts
    • 972 Thanks
    StopIt
    • #2
    • 11th Oct 17, 12:11 PM
    • #2
    • 11th Oct 17, 12:11 PM
    Nope.


    If they can't produce the CCA Agreement, it is unenforceable at court.


    HOWEVER! If the debt was an Overdraft, Utility, Phone Contract or other non CCA regulated debt, this does not apply, and other than proving you had the account, you would remain liable for 6 years after your last DMP payment.


    What was the debt for, how much is it standing at this time and is it any of the above?


    Someone tell Cabot that acknowledgement of the debt is for the Statute Bar, not for an account they can't prove at all!
    • EssexHebridean
    • By EssexHebridean 11th Oct 17, 12:22 PM
    • 8,013 Posts
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    EssexHebridean
    • #3
    • 11th Oct 17, 12:22 PM
    • #3
    • 11th Oct 17, 12:22 PM
    Do you not still have the proportion of the money from the house sale that you were holding onto for the F&F? Can you re-offer the F&F and see what they say now? What have you been doing about payments since they refused the F&F early last year?

    Sorry for all the questions - hopefully someone like Sourcrates or Fatbelly with specific knowledge in this area will see your post shortly.
    *edit* I see StopIt has already posted also - and makes a good point about the "confusion" that Cabot appear to be suffering from!
    Last edited by EssexHebridean; 11-10-2017 at 12:24 PM.
    MORTGAGE FREE 30/09/2016
    Sainsbugs 0% card: 22/12/16 £1229.00/£544.67 (17/10/17)
    • fatbelly
    • By fatbelly 11th Oct 17, 1:03 PM
    • 11,378 Posts
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    fatbelly
    • #4
    • 11th Oct 17, 1:03 PM
    • #4
    • 11th Oct 17, 1:03 PM
    As well as stopit's questions, can you tell us when (what year?) the account was opened.
    • AndyPandy76
    • By AndyPandy76 11th Oct 17, 2:27 PM
    • 8 Posts
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    AndyPandy76
    • #5
    • 11th Oct 17, 2:27 PM
    • #5
    • 11th Oct 17, 2:27 PM
    Thanks for your reply. It was originally for an HSBC credit card currently outstanding £1945.87.
    • AndyPandy76
    • By AndyPandy76 11th Oct 17, 2:33 PM
    • 8 Posts
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    AndyPandy76
    • #6
    • 11th Oct 17, 2:33 PM
    • #6
    • 11th Oct 17, 2:33 PM
    Hi Essexherbi, Once my offer was refused the money was used elsewhere to clear debt.
    • AndyPandy76
    • By AndyPandy76 11th Oct 17, 2:36 PM
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    AndyPandy76
    • #7
    • 11th Oct 17, 2:36 PM
    • #7
    • 11th Oct 17, 2:36 PM
    Hi Fatbelly I dont know when its originally from to be honest probably early 2000's
    • StopIt
    • By StopIt 11th Oct 17, 2:49 PM
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    StopIt
    • #8
    • 11th Oct 17, 2:49 PM
    • #8
    • 11th Oct 17, 2:49 PM
    A credit card is CCA regulated, so that's good.


    If it was Pre 2007 any CCA request must be answered containing the prescribed terms of the account.


    Did you send a formal CCA request? It's specifically worded to quote the CCA regulations, and doesn't strictly need a signature to be valid. If not, look up CCA Requests on the National Debtline website, shoot one off to cover them off completely, and when they say they can't fulfil it, you quote the CCA letter saying that non compliance results in the debt being unenforceable at court.
    • AndyPandy76
    • By AndyPandy76 11th Oct 17, 3:00 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    AndyPandy76
    • #9
    • 11th Oct 17, 3:00 PM
    • #9
    • 11th Oct 17, 3:00 PM
    Thanks Stopit, I will look that letter up and send it off.
    • fatbelly
    • By fatbelly 11th Oct 17, 7:00 PM
    • 11,378 Posts
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    fatbelly
    What stopit is asking is when you say ' I immediately wrote to them telling them not to send anyone and requested the signed agreement' did you do that by way of a formal s77-79 CCA request, including £1 fee?

    If you did that, and have kept a copy, then any court claim can be easily stayed (stopped) because they have not complied. There is no need to do it twice. But if you didn't do that then now is a good time to do it. As it is a credit card they must comply with the request. Sample letter here

    https://www.nationaldebtline.org/EW/sampleletters/Pages/Information-about-your-agreement-under-the-Consumer-Credit-Act-%28sole-name%29.aspx

    Regarding the date of the agreement, as it is pre-April 2007, if they were to start a court you have an additional line of defence which is s127(3). This was withdrawn for agreements after that date but still applies to older ones. It says:

    The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a) (signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

    It's not a cast-iron defence because (as ever) you are relying on a judge but it's another uncertainty for Cabot as to whether they could enforce this and if they started anything you could tie them up for some time.

    I agree with stopit's strategy here but if you did consider (after sorting out a proper s77-9 request) making a 'without prejudice' offer of something small, maybe £200, in full & final settlement, that may well bring matters to an end.
    • AndyPandy76
    • By AndyPandy76 11th Oct 17, 8:39 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    AndyPandy76
    Thanks fatbelly, no I didn't send them the official letter with the quotes or the £1 fee. Although I did ask in writing for them to supply me with the agreement to which they have replied saying they don't have it because of the age of the account. Could I technically then just reply in writing now quoting 'under the Consumer Credit Act 1974, creditors are unable to enforce an agreement if they fail to comply with the request for a copy of the agreement'? Or would I be best to request it again using the template? Really appreciate all the advice.
    • fatbelly
    • By fatbelly 11th Oct 17, 8:45 PM
    • 11,378 Posts
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    fatbelly
    I'd do it again, sending a postal order for the £1 and sending it 'signed for' - that way you've got all the evidence you need if they don't supply the agreement.
    • sourcrates
    • By sourcrates 11th Oct 17, 8:50 PM
    • 12,207 Posts
    • 11,658 Thanks
    sourcrates
    I'd do it again, sending a postal order for the £1 and sending it 'signed for' - that way you've got all the evidence you need if they don't supply the agreement.
    Originally posted by fatbelly
    I’d agree with this, best to have followed correct procedure.

    Saves having problems further down the line.
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    • StopIt
    • By StopIt 12th Oct 17, 7:55 AM
    • 1,117 Posts
    • 972 Thanks
    StopIt
    I’d agree with this, best to have followed correct procedure.

    Saves having problems further down the line.
    Originally posted by sourcrates
    Exactly.


    For the sake of a couple of quid, I'd not risk a DCA trying to be clever, just in case.
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