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    • loopylou3
    • By loopylou3 11th Oct 17, 8:34 AM
    • 15Posts
    • 25Thanks
    loopylou3
    urgent help please
    • #1
    • 11th Oct 17, 8:34 AM
    urgent help please 11th Oct 17 at 8:34 AM
    Hi all, sorry if this has been asked before but i received a LBA from Gladstones re Private Parking Solutions. They say i have 14 days to reply and their letter is dated 26/9. However, i only received yesterday,
    10/10/17! This means i am already out of time to reply. I need to get to work and haven't got time to look through all the past posts.
    How is it best to reply to this?
    My defence is that no grace time was given at all, as another member of the public waited by my car to let me know the attendant pounced on the car immediately and i was only gone 5 mins to get change!
    This dates back to November. Appealed once but lost.
    I don't want it to go to court but can't afford the £160 they are now asking for. Please help!
Page 1
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 11th Oct 17, 8:59 AM
    • 14,947 Posts
    • 23,473 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #2
    • 11th Oct 17, 8:59 AM
    • #2
    • 11th Oct 17, 8:59 AM
    Please read the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #2 where there is information about how to respond to a LBA. Send it in to them now, making a point in it about its date and the date of your receipt.

    Expect court papers to be served in the near future which you will have to defend or risk a very likely CCJ with consequences for your credit rating. So you will need to use post #2 of the sticky as your guide through the court process. We can help you with your defence, but you will have to do a lot of the legwork yourself, so the more you learn now about how to do this, the easier it will be.

    Do not ignore this now, it must be dealt with!

    Have you complained to the landowner about how their agent is treating people, and ask them to have it cancelled?
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • loopylou3
    • By loopylou3 11th Oct 17, 9:05 AM
    • 15 Posts
    • 25 Thanks
    loopylou3
    • #3
    • 11th Oct 17, 9:05 AM
    • #3
    • 11th Oct 17, 9:05 AM
    thanks for the reply. I think i will just have to pay if it is still likely to go to court. The cost will increase further which i won't be able to afford and i don't want a ccj! Wish i'd just paid when it was still £60.
    • fisherjim
    • By fisherjim 11th Oct 17, 9:08 AM
    • 2,496 Posts
    • 3,740 Thanks
    fisherjim
    • #4
    • 11th Oct 17, 9:08 AM
    • #4
    • 11th Oct 17, 9:08 AM
    Follow Umkomaas advice, but why on earth didn't you appeal to POPLA at the time you would have nipped this then?

    But if what you say is correct you have every chance of winning at court, though it still might not go there, you are after all dealing with Muppets.
    To quote the words of the great Count Arthur Strong "You Couldn't make it up"
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 11th Oct 17, 9:17 AM
    • 33,044 Posts
    • 17,004 Thanks
    Quentin
    • #5
    • 11th Oct 17, 9:17 AM
    • #5
    • 11th Oct 17, 9:17 AM
    thanks for the reply. I think i will just have to pay if it is still likely to go to court. The cost will increase further which i won't be able to afford and i don't want a ccj! Wish i'd just paid when it was still £60.
    Originally posted by loopylou3

    This is civil court - no stigma!


    You only get a ccj if you lose AND don't pay! (If you were to lose then you get a month to pay - only if you don't does it stay on the register for 6 years.


    Of course if you win you get your expenses etc


    And it may not end up in court anyway!
    • Johnersh
    • By Johnersh 11th Oct 17, 9:22 AM
    • 515 Posts
    • 929 Thanks
    Johnersh
    • #6
    • 11th Oct 17, 9:22 AM
    • #6
    • 11th Oct 17, 9:22 AM
    Despite you being 'out of time' that is a time limit imposed by the claimant not the court.

    I'd still go to the trouble of doing a letter of response and insisting on all the usual protocol documents.
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 11th Oct 17, 9:40 AM
    • 33,044 Posts
    • 17,004 Thanks
    Quentin
    • #7
    • 11th Oct 17, 9:40 AM
    • #7
    • 11th Oct 17, 9:40 AM
    Despite you being 'out of time' that is a time limit imposed by the claimant not the court.

    I'd still go to the trouble of doing a letter of response and insisting on all the usual protocol documents.
    Originally posted by Johnersh
    The lbcca was sent to the op prior to the new protocol coming into force
    • Loadsofchildren123
    • By Loadsofchildren123 11th Oct 17, 9:52 AM
    • 1,262 Posts
    • 2,153 Thanks
    Loadsofchildren123
    • #8
    • 11th Oct 17, 9:52 AM
    • #8
    • 11th Oct 17, 9:52 AM
    But the new Protocol does apply now because 1 October has been and gone and proceedings have not been issued.


    The relevant obligations are those in force at the time proceedings are issued, not at the time the LBC is written - particularly when the LBC was written just a couple of days prior (and was clearly posted after).


    So the OP must write to them to say that they only received the letter on 10/10 so it cannot have been posted on the date of the letter, drawing their attention to the new protocol which came into force 10 days before the letter was received, and asking them to comply properly with the new protocol. They can also point out all the ways it fails to comply with the pre-existing Practice Direction - Pre-Action Conduct and ask for a list of documents/further information (eg landowner authority).
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 11th Oct 17, 10:20 AM
    • 33,044 Posts
    • 17,004 Thanks
    Quentin
    • #9
    • 11th Oct 17, 10:20 AM
    • #9
    • 11th Oct 17, 10:20 AM
    A solicitor changing the date on a legal document to avoid a legal date deadline?

    Hard to believe.

    Certainly grounds for big time complaining to the powers to be
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 11th Oct 17, 10:40 AM
    • 7,168 Posts
    • 6,219 Thanks
    The Deep
    It might be wise to seek an opinion from the SRA about thether ot not Gladstones are cheating.


    http://www.sra.org.uk/consumers/problems.page
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • Loadsofchildren123
    • By Loadsofchildren123 11th Oct 17, 11:13 AM
    • 1,262 Posts
    • 2,153 Thanks
    Loadsofchildren123
    You wouldn't be able to prove it though, they'd just say they sent it on the date of the letter.
    • Loadsofchildren123
    • By Loadsofchildren123 11th Oct 17, 11:15 AM
    • 1,262 Posts
    • 2,153 Thanks
    Loadsofchildren123
    If on the other hand you can find a number of other recipients with the same experience, then that implies backdating (although it could also imply one batch of post that's gone "missing"/been delayed - we've all heard stories of things being delivered months/years after posting, it isn't unknown, although on the balance of probabilities it's unlikely).


    It doesn't achieve anything anyway because the new Protocol applies, since proceedings were not issued prior to 1 October.
    • Johnersh
    • By Johnersh 11th Oct 17, 1:42 PM
    • 515 Posts
    • 929 Thanks
    Johnersh
    this can be addressed with either:
    (i) an electronic copy of the letter and you can then look at the document creation date
    (ii) by asking the Claimant to provide you with a certificate of service verified with a statement of truth to demonstrate creation and posting

    I agree with LoadsofChildren123 that whilst there is a lot of spleen venting on here, everyone is far better off picking their battles. The new protocol can be relied upon to show what information you should have available to you prior to issue.

    It will not be good enough simply to say "old rules applied when I sent my letter of claim, so i'm not providing you with the documents." Indeed, that may be an unreasonable approach and certainly not one that may narrow the issues in dispute.
    • loopylou3
    • By loopylou3 12th Oct 17, 3:05 PM
    • 15 Posts
    • 25 Thanks
    loopylou3
    thanks to you all for taking the time to reply. I have typed up a letter stating my defence is that no grace period at all was given. I can see you mentioned the new protocol that came into effect on 1/10/17 and that Gladstone's LBA is dated 26/9 (even though i did not receive until 10/10) Should i mention the new protocol and say it seems they deliberately dated the letter before it cam into place. Would it help?

    thank you.
    • Johnersh
    • By Johnersh 14th Oct 17, 7:07 PM
    • 515 Posts
    • 929 Thanks
    Johnersh
    No.

    You write to them asking to set out:

    1. exactly what their case is. Only then can you prepare a detailed letter of response.

    2. Point out that the new protocol will apply to this action as court proceedings have not been issued. You therefore require:

    A. Details of any contract they say exists between driver and the PPC
    B. Details of any contracts between the land owner and the PPC
    C. A breakdown of all contractual charges which it is alleged are owed
    D. A breakdown of any interest that it is alleged may be claimed.

    All of the above are required to properly consider their claim for and entitlement to levy a charge. It is for the claimant to prove their case and to fully set out the whole nature of the claim pre-action.

    If it is their intention to issue proceedings you require them to have provided the above pre-issue or reserve the right to draw to the attention the non compliance with the protocol and premature issue of proceedings. You require any claim to be properly particularised addressing the above requirements and those of CPR 16 or you will seek to have the particulars struck out.
    • ampersand
    • By ampersand 14th Oct 17, 7:13 PM
    • 8,237 Posts
    • 31,263 Thanks
    ampersand
    OP, post your letter here for a critique first.
    CAP[UK]for FREE EXPERT DEBT&BUDGET HELP:01274 760720, freephone0800 328 0006
    'People don't want much. They want: "Someone to love, somewhere to live, somewhere to work and something to hope for."
    Norman Kirk, NZLP- Prime Minister, 1972
    ***JE SUIS CHARLIE***
    'It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere' François-Marie AROUET


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