Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@.

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • ConfusedBankrupt
    • By ConfusedBankrupt 10th Oct 17, 11:04 PM
    • 3Posts
    • 1Thanks
    ConfusedBankrupt
    Almost bankrupt... But need to borrow again
    • #1
    • 10th Oct 17, 11:04 PM
    Almost bankrupt... But need to borrow again 10th Oct 17 at 11:04 PM
    So long story short, I've borrowed just short of 30k to afford things which would generally be classed as legitimate reasons (private medical, wedding, moving rented home etc).
    My wife and I found out recently we are due another baby which put us in the awkward situation of needing to move to a bigger house. We've borrowed the deposit from my family in the interim to fund the move and plan to pay back as much as we can from the deposit from our current property etc.
    We are 2 weeks from moving, I have £650 in the bankruptcy ready to pay the extra and file when we've moved but now my car has broken down beyond reasonable repair and I'd need to borrow again to replace it.
    Question is, do I?
    I need my car to get to work, and we already have 3 young kids so a 7 seater is a must. The problem is, a 7 seater costs more than £500 (more like £1500…) and if I borrow this close to filing it may be considered fraud.
    So, do I risk the 'fraud' knowing I have no other choice as all existing credit/overdraft/family borrowing has been used up? If so, do I take more than I need to cover payments for a few months so it looks as though I've tried to repay what I owe!?
    I guess I'm worried the OR would look at the bankruptcy application and see I'd already paid money in and then took additional borrowing...
Page 1
    • Mouse007
    • By Mouse007 11th Oct 17, 8:34 AM
    • 98 Posts
    • 56 Thanks
    Mouse007
    • #2
    • 11th Oct 17, 8:34 AM
    • #2
    • 11th Oct 17, 8:34 AM
    You know (you've said it) it would be fraud, that's a criminal offence.

    Repaying family from the returned deposit would also be a preferential payment potentially recoverable by the OR.

    I'm sure many would question "private medical" as a legitimate reason to borrow.

    You are going to have to find an alternative solution like borrowing or renting a car, your suggestion is not a legal option.
    • tacpot12
    • By tacpot12 11th Oct 17, 8:51 AM
    • 745 Posts
    • 646 Thanks
    tacpot12
    • #3
    • 11th Oct 17, 8:51 AM
    • #3
    • 11th Oct 17, 8:51 AM
    Is there a reason why you need to be able to fit all the children into the car? If you just need a car to get to work, and to go shopping, wouldn't a small car will do?
    • ConfusedBankrupt
    • By ConfusedBankrupt 11th Oct 17, 10:49 AM
    • 3 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    ConfusedBankrupt
    • #4
    • 11th Oct 17, 10:49 AM
    • #4
    • 11th Oct 17, 10:49 AM
    Thanks for the responses so far.
    "Private medical" was my way of not having to get into details, but considering the less than helpful remark about it, i'll let you know that the borrowing was to fund IVF treatment due to the NHS refusing to help. Apparently if your partner already has a child, then you are not allowed funding because you should be 'happy enough' to have one child in the house already.
    As for needing to put the children in the car. We have three already, as the above resulted in twins. We are due another in 6 months, which means we need a car big enough to fit 4 children's car seats. It's quite a simple request really, to want to be able to physically take my whole family out without having to take two cars...especially for school runs or emergencies.

    The long and short of it, is that would it still be 'fraud' if I cancelled my bankruptcy application before I file and just continue to borrow. In effect, it's no different to just carrying on digging a deeper hole. It's not ideal, but I just don't see any other option at the moment.
    • k3lvc
    • By k3lvc 11th Oct 17, 11:24 AM
    • 1,947 Posts
    • 3,089 Thanks
    k3lvc
    • #5
    • 11th Oct 17, 11:24 AM
    • #5
    • 11th Oct 17, 11:24 AM
    In effect, it's no different to just carrying on digging a deeper hole. It's not ideal, but I just don't see any other option at the moment.
    Originally posted by ConfusedBankrupt

    And that's exactly it - you keep digging that hole justifying it with things you think are essential but you can't afford (wedding/IVF/car etc etc)


    I'll let someone else deal with the legal/fraud aspect of things but from a purely ethical point of view your actions stink. Your options, as most others try to do, is to live within your means and make decisions on the basis of what you can afford rather than what you want
    • haggis0073
    • By haggis0073 11th Oct 17, 12:15 PM
    • 42 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    haggis0073
    • #6
    • 11th Oct 17, 12:15 PM
    • #6
    • 11th Oct 17, 12:15 PM
    I think the problem with borrowing money with the intention of not paying it back is classed as fraud and the OR will not be happy. If you are struggling with debt then borrowing more on top will just make it worse( and alot of ppl on this forum including me can relate).

    I would seriously consider getting in contact with CAB or national debtline etc and go through everything with them

    could you possibly sell your wifes car and then put that money into getting a 7 seater? Could you manage with just one car in the family? If so that would help free up some cash
    • normanna
    • By normanna 11th Oct 17, 2:54 PM
    • 16 Posts
    • 11 Thanks
    normanna
    • #7
    • 11th Oct 17, 2:54 PM
    • #7
    • 11th Oct 17, 2:54 PM
    Agree totally with k3lvc. Bankruptcy should not be a get out of jail card used solely to fund a lifestyle. People just getting by, not overspending and living within their means must really cringe when they read OP post. You may be able to justify your actions to yourselves but no-one else
    • ConfusedBankrupt
    • By ConfusedBankrupt 11th Oct 17, 6:56 PM
    • 3 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    ConfusedBankrupt
    • #8
    • 11th Oct 17, 6:56 PM
    • #8
    • 11th Oct 17, 6:56 PM
    Well it's nice to see there's a strong holier than thou attitude on here. Apologies to the few who replied with neutral comments but the majority of responses have been appalling.
    I spent my credit trying to start a family, and a small amount partially funded a wedding. I lived completely within my means, haven't bought anything lavish and made every payment on time. We haven't had holidays for years, we live frugally and just scrape by. Finding out we're having another child has meant we have to move house, there was no other option. Cost of living and housing is so expensive to the point that what was affordable, now isn't.
    This is not a get out of jail free card. This is something I have actively avoided and done everything possible to stop happening. I have tried consolidating existing debts to make them manageable, but no lenders will offer anything. I have tried moving to a council property to save money, but my local council won't even speak to me as I am not old or disabled as that is their priority.
    I have actively avoided any additional borrowing for the last few months. I have tried to work within the rules of what is ok but my already cheap car breaking down weeks before filing has meant I now have to extend borrowing to buy another cheap car.
    I have looked into hiring cars but it is too expensive and is technically another line of credit. I need a car to get to work (35 miles away) or I'd lose my job. My wife needs a car to do the school run as the closest school is nearly 4 miles away. Or should a pregnant woman be forced to walk eight miles, twice a day?
    I understand my original post may have left out details as I was looking for quick advice in case there was anything I had missed or could do instead. However the responses are wholely unjustified to the point I will not visit this forum again.
    Maybe you should think back to when you took borrowing and whether you spent every penny on something other people would class as 'essential'. Keep your opinions to yourself, they don't help anyone, especially when people are obviously in difficult and potentially upsetting situations already.
    • Seesaw Life
    • By Seesaw Life 11th Oct 17, 6:58 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 13 Thanks
    Seesaw Life
    • #9
    • 11th Oct 17, 6:58 PM
    • #9
    • 11th Oct 17, 6:58 PM
    The IVF, wedding and house are legitimate expenses and loads of people borrow to pay for such things. Assuming none of those were taken on with the decision to go bankrupt already made, you shouldn't have a problem with the bankruptcy (or the morality!). If it was, and your post is ambiguous on that point, then (morality aside) you might find some very serious questions being asked about the timeline. Be prepared for that - the way you present it will raise eyebrows, legitimate or not. The car breaking down is really unfortunate.

    So, that dealt with, your position now is difficult but, unfortunately, you don't borrow more and you don't (as said) make preferential payments to family members. If you haven't yet, please take advice to see if you have another better route out of debt. It isn't obvious (forgive me if I am wrong) that you have fully understood the effects your plan will have on you and your family and I worry that you will approach interviews with the official receiver with a sense of entitlement that won't go down well. I'm trying to help, not judging. Good luck.
    • Seesaw Life
    • By Seesaw Life 11th Oct 17, 7:01 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 13 Thanks
    Seesaw Life
    . . . our replies crossed, so your last post is not reflected in my reply; I will now read yours.
    • Seesaw Life
    • By Seesaw Life 11th Oct 17, 7:09 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 13 Thanks
    Seesaw Life
    If you are still here - and I hope you are - your first post gave an impression you clearly didn't intend, but it is there nonetheless so I also understand the replies. If I can help, I will, and I know many others will also do the same. Please, at least, talk to a professional - you have enough to deal with and perspective is really hard to maintain. I know. I've been there and it isn't fun. Sincere good luck.
    • Potbellypig
    • By Potbellypig 11th Oct 17, 7:21 PM
    • 162 Posts
    • 75 Thanks
    Potbellypig
    Well it's nice to see there's a strong holier than thou attitude on here. Apologies to the few who replied with neutral comments but the majority of responses have been appalling.
    I spent my credit trying to start a family, and a small amount partially funded a wedding. I lived completely within my means, haven't bought anything lavish and made every payment on time. We haven't had holidays for years, we live frugally and just scrape by. Finding out we're having another child has meant we have to move house, there was no other option. Cost of living and housing is so expensive to the point that what was affordable, now isn't.
    This is not a get out of jail free card. This is something I have actively avoided and done everything possible to stop happening. I have tried consolidating existing debts to make them manageable, but no lenders will offer anything. I have tried moving to a council property to save money, but my local council won't even speak to me as I am not old or disabled as that is their priority.
    I have actively avoided any additional borrowing for the last few months. I have tried to work within the rules of what is ok but my already cheap car breaking down weeks before filing has meant I now have to extend borrowing to buy another cheap car.
    I have looked into hiring cars but it is too expensive and is technically another line of credit. I need a car to get to work (35 miles away) or I'd lose my job. My wife needs a car to do the school run as the closest school is nearly 4 miles away. Or should a pregnant woman be forced to walk eight miles, twice a day?
    I understand my original post may have left out details as I was looking for quick advice in case there was anything I had missed or could do instead. However the responses are wholely unjustified to the point I will not visit this forum again.
    Maybe you should think back to when you took borrowing and whether you spent every penny on something other people would class as 'essential'. Keep your opinions to yourself, they don't help anyone, especially when people are obviously in difficult and potentially upsetting situations already.
    Originally posted by ConfusedBankrupt
    You post on a discussion board something which is going to rattle a few cages. Don't be surprised when people react to it.
    • StopIt
    • By StopIt 12th Oct 17, 9:40 AM
    • 1,449 Posts
    • 1,239 Thanks
    StopIt
    Simply put, you cannot borrow knowing that you're insolvent.


    The consequences of this would likely result in a BRU or BRO, and is something you'd need to take advice from the CAB or National Debtline about.


    Preferential payments would also have similar results. if it shown that you paid back a family loan in preference to other debt prior to declaring bankruptcy, that will also count against you.


    None of these things will stop you from going bankrupt, but will result in the proceedings being more onerous on you.


    As you haven't posted an SOA, I cannot advise on your exact circumstances, but if you're insolvent, you're insolvent.


    One thing to note: If you borrow to buy a car above the value allowed under bankruptcy proceedings, you will be forced to surrender it anyway, so make sure to get advice on this subject also.
    Last edited by StopIt; 12-10-2017 at 9:42 AM.
    • Ronaldo Mconaldo
    • By Ronaldo Mconaldo 12th Oct 17, 12:26 PM
    • 4,989 Posts
    • 5,242 Thanks
    Ronaldo Mconaldo
    Troll post
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

1,273Posts Today

5,955Users online

Martin's Twitter