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  • FIRST POST
    • mylor13
    • By mylor13 10th Oct 17, 9:19 PM
    • 1Posts
    • 0Thanks
    mylor13
    Neighbours mains water supply and sewer leaking under my foundations
    • #1
    • 10th Oct 17, 9:19 PM
    Neighbours mains water supply and sewer leaking under my foundations 10th Oct 17 at 9:19 PM
    I live in a two bedroomd semi detached property and my party wall is shared with the neighbours who have a three bedroom property with a downstairs toilet, property was built approximately mid 1980s south west uk block built cavity walls.
    Image of both properties 19A is my 2 bed 18B next doors 3 bed & downstairs wc
    SORRY COULDN'T ADD PHOTOS
    TWO ISSUES
    1 Sewer gas odor back drafting around my property
    2 Water ingress from under the front of my home
    ISSUE 1
    SEWER GAS BACK DRAFTING
    Next door neighbours sewer line is 12 inches from the foundations of my house.

    Mine is on the other side of my house.
    There is a ( 1 of 6 identical around my property) 10 inch Hepworth inspection sewer manhole, which I must add is the only one that has no screws in it and can be inspected where as the remaining other 5 have been ignored and brushed aside, nobody could open them I am of the understanding that they are there for the purpose of inspecting. I have no idea which lid is for foul water or grey water. I also understand that these manholes should be inspected on a regular basis what is the point of having them if nobody is prepared to have a look and rejected by South West Water and an RICS inspector environmental health and someone from one of the largest leak finding companies in the UK?
    From the day I moved here 20 years ago there has been an awful smell. Believe me when I say it's a long story and I have tried everything this is why I'm writing this now as I'm at my wits end, my health and my home are declining and I need help as soon as possible please. So it is taking me a long expensive path to get to where I am now. It's recently that I've tracked it down so I am trying to express it in the easiest way I know possible.
    The disgusting sewer gas odor that permeates my house & wafts around every single corner of it. It's APPARENT WHENEVER THEY USE ANY OF THE PLUMBED UTILITIES IN THEIR HOUSE, I don't know which part of their plumbing all I know is when they are at home it causes this sewer in to my house and it stinks. When they are not home the smell is hardly there, in fact when I have my music playing and I don't know if they're home as I can't hear them BUT I do know they are home because the sewer smell wreaks and wafts its foul stench around my home! So I go to the window and look out I I see one of their cars ,or the the back doors open so they let the dogs out.
    ISSUE 2
    The water ingress
    Much to my dismay I discovered that the mains water supply pipe to my next door neighbours run from the other side of my drive under my front garden under my front porch foundations to promptly enter their property at our party wall where it connects to their downstairs toilet, above which is their bathroom & toilet and then back downstairs to continue the length of the party wall to the other end of the property to their kitchen.
    The next point to note is the party wall is always FREEZING cold to the touch and this is all year round.
    Does this have anything to do with the fact that their mains water supply pipe enters their property at our party wall and that any leakage from that could be sucked into the breeze block also their water pipes being in this wall I can see no other reason as my water pipes are on the other side of my house which is where my garage is.
    I have two windows at the front of my property one for the kitchen and above it one for my spare room they are both uPVC double glazed.
    On days when it's very sunny weather, no matter if it's freezing cold or boiling hot, summer, winter etc both the windows at the front of my property become heavily covered in water in side the sealed unit between the two panes of glass.
    A great example of this, which I have photos of, is the August bank holiday which was a hot sunny weekend.

    Upon returning to my home Sunday evening was it was still sunny, to my horror I could hardly see through my kitchen windows as they were full of water however after 14 hours over drizzly damp night when I went downstairs in the morning my windows were clear, totally clear.

    This only ever happens to these two front windows. All the other windows on my home do not have this problem and I never have condesation on ANY of my windows at any time.
    After much reading online I discover to my horror that water pipes are not permitted in party walls!? On top of that I then find out that as these where built in the mid 1980's and back then the pipes would NOT have been sheathed. Makes sense as the builders of these homes where bad at their job! To back this up further, a few years back, surprise surprise, next doors downstairs wc had a water leak. I had already mentioned mold growing on my side of the party wall opposite their wc but they brushed me off. The leak was a pinhole in a copper pipe SET IN CONCRETE IN THE WC FLOOR which is where their main water supply enters their property. THEY HAD IT REPAIRED. CLEARLY IT NEVER CROSSED THEIR MINDS OR THE PLUMBER THAT THIS WOULD ALTER THE PRESSURES ON THE REST OF THE COPPER PIPE AND INEVITABLY CAUSE MORE HOLES?! I despair.
    So my questions about this are, does anyone know what the party wall act has to say about water pipes in walls? Is there anything that can be done to see if the neighbours water pipes have to be either re positioned or sheathed.
    I store my clothes in my wardrobe (I took the doors off years ago and just have a length of fabric hanging in their place) and drawers and naturally these are against the party wall as one would believe this to be the warmer wall of the four walls of a house the other three being exposed to the elements.
    I have photos to try and show the disgusting mess that becomes of my clothes in a few weeks of being cleaned.

    This goes on all year long hot or cold makes no difference my clothes have a white powdery moldy growth on them, there's no odor but it's just disgusting and exhausting continually washing clothes they're getting worn out (as am I) before I even get a chance to wear them in fact I'm so put off even looking at my clothes half the time because every time I do I find more white powdery mildew growing on everything, my heart feels like lead and sinks every time.
    Also I have to have containers full of these things called Kontrol Krystals which basically collect moisture. I have one in every single drawer I have three massive ones in my wardrobe I have them under my bed under my dressing table I've got them inside my lounge around my electronic equipment everywhere, in a cabinet, on shelves on the party wall and I have to keep changing them every two weeks because they're full of water.

    I used to have my dehumidifyer in my bedroom and it made no difference when using the krystals to soak up moisture in the drawers. This happens in the summer and the winter and it makes no difference if there's a drought or a monsoon, it makes no difference.
    I have a dehumidifier on 24 /7 which I did have upstairs for years but that has changed now. I have it in the porch where the neighbours mains water supply pipe runs under the foundations of my porch, which is next to my kitchen which is underneath my spare bedroom where all my windows get wet inside. Over the course of two days there will easily be between 8 and 12 litres of water in my dehumidifier every single time I empty it. I do not have this problem with any other windows in my property, so I know that it not to do with my building.
    From what I understand it's rare to have another properties mains water supply actually running under another property foundations. I should damn well think so too! Clearly lazy builders, from what I can see there where plenty of other places to lay the water and sewer pipes. But what I don't get is HOW THE HELL WAS THIS PERMITTED AND SIGNED OFF or whatever? Same goes for their sewer pipe being only some 12 inches from my poor already stressed foundations?
    Another point to note over the years my next door neighbour has continually complained about her high water bills I believe they are aware there could be a problem with water and sewage but it does not affect their property even though it's all their effluent and foul waste so my belief is they are trying to make sure that they are left out of the equation.
    I find it very odd that they have decked and paved their entire front and back gardens, yet for some reason they managed to build up, against my porch wall with soil and make an excuse for a flower bed (the only one in all their property!!) which is just two inches beneath my damp proof course which is also where their stack pipe enters the ground which is also where the manhole is that's 12 inches away from my foundations! Oh and also where the mains water enters their house!
    Here are some photos to give you a better idea.

    Both our water meters are situated to the far side of my driveway, please check the attached photo of the buildings layout. When looking inside both of them my one is clean and clear and their one over the last three years plus has been surrounded with thick mud which is coming up from underneath, not the other way round but the water board said that's not unusual and often happens, oh really?!
    My front garden is paved with small bricks and I have not bothered to weed it this year, and would you believe it? There is a distinct line of green weeds growing above exactly where the mains water supply pipe runs for next door!
    If I had a pound for every single hour that I've spent online trying to find out every aspect of this style of building, how it was constructed by what kind of cowboy outfit but kind of problems it'd bring, what problems are encountered with poor workmanship on groundwork drainage systems, believe me from the onset I've tried everything from the roof downwards. Plumbing, all kinds of water ingress problems through endless investigation and knowledge gathering I have lost very many weeks/months etc etc - I would be a multi-millionaire.
    I am angry I am so angry that if it is not resolved soon I will take a pikaxe to these utility pipes myself. I don't think anybody else would be able to tolerate what I have for as long as I have without going barking mad. From the start I have investigated my property and only my property for all these years and it's never had a problem. Being nice and being polite got me nowhere. So this is why I've had to look outside of my property for the reasons to get answers to cure this once and for all. So it's evident that these problems are caused by utilities underground for my NEXT DOOR NEIGHBOURS! WHY WHY OH WHY have these pipes been buried under my foundations. There are about another 30 or so properties of the same 2 & 3 bed design BUT NONE ONE THAT I CAN SEE FROM WALKING AND LOOKING HAS GOT A MASSIVE BODGE JOB LIKE MY PLACE HAS!
    Next door neighbour is a botch job diyer, now he has taken it upon himself to re direct the run off from his gutters since he built an extension to the right of his house (it has no guttering to mention). I noticed all the gutters are directed to the left toward my property and all go down the drain that is there along with his sewer line, mains water supply and ALL WITHIN A FOOT OF MY FOUNDATIONS OMG!
    First photo of neighbours and how he has changed the flow of his gutters-

    Second photo of the original gutter layout on different house but exact same layout as theirs is-

    ULTIMATELY I NEED TO KNOW HOW I CAN GET HIS WATER AND SEWER LINES REMOVED FROM MY UNDER MY PROPERTY WITH IMMEDIATE EFFECT PLEASE.
    I am 100% SURROUNDED by all my neighbours water, waste water and effluent, to the front of my property I have his mains water under my land and foundations, along with his sewer under my foundation and under my front garden to the sewer in my drive, all his water pipes running the length of the party wall, so thats those two walls. The other two walls, in my back garden his grey water runs just two feet from my back door the length of my garden then turns to run the length of my garage to my drive to meet the sewer water. So thats all of my walls surrounded by their S**T. My water and waste go straight in and out. The attached plan of pipe layout etc should show this. I am beyond distressed. This is ruining my health, my life is spent desperatley trying to free myself from an extremely unfair situation that I have had to struggle with for all these years, infact to the poiint that I have recently managed to discover that mains water and sewerpipes are very very rarely permitted to go under the foundations ofd a neighbouring property. Plus there is loads of room for the pipes to be laid outside of my home. I am literally a knats whisker away from digging down to these pipes myself as actually trying to get any authority or even paid help has left me hardly any choice and this is truly driving me wild. Please help. My life will be altered beyond I belief not having to deal with this much longer and to not breath in air that is saturated with the stench of their sewer wafting around my home. Also they have around 4-6 people in and out all the time, I live alone.
    I have had no joy with the council, building control, enviromental health,water company a RICS guy and a guy from one of the UK's largest leak finding specialists each of the last two charged me £500 EACH and they where useless.
    Just to add, I am in contact with water company AGAIN am awaiting a call from them, will update when I know more.
    There is much more to all this but I have tried to be concise so if any other information is needed please let me know and I will supply it.
    I need any help or advise possible please. I could go on as there is so much going on BUT these are my primary concern.
    To conclude the smell makes me feel sick, gives me migrains for days on end, makes my eyes water and sting.
    Thank you in anticipation for your help
Page 1
    • gardner1
    • By gardner1 10th Oct 17, 9:29 PM
    • 2,153 Posts
    • 3,039 Thanks
    gardner1
    • #2
    • 10th Oct 17, 9:29 PM
    • #2
    • 10th Oct 17, 9:29 PM
    Way to long.......lost interest
    • societys child
    • By societys child 10th Oct 17, 9:33 PM
    • 4,662 Posts
    • 5,033 Thanks
    societys child
    • #3
    • 10th Oct 17, 9:33 PM
    • #3
    • 10th Oct 17, 9:33 PM
    What do Environmental Health say?

    • Alter ego
    • By Alter ego 10th Oct 17, 9:36 PM
    • 2,105 Posts
    • 2,021 Thanks
    Alter ego
    • #4
    • 10th Oct 17, 9:36 PM
    • #4
    • 10th Oct 17, 9:36 PM
    Me tooooooooooooo
    Ignore me if you like, it's not the real me anyway.
    • Doozergirl
    • By Doozergirl 10th Oct 17, 9:44 PM
    • 23,894 Posts
    • 66,417 Thanks
    Doozergirl
    • #5
    • 10th Oct 17, 9:44 PM
    • #5
    • 10th Oct 17, 9:44 PM
    Sorry, there is too much to take in and the grammar was too bad for me to continue. I can cope with bad grammar if you're trying to stick to the point. This has to be the longest first post I've ever seen.

    You really need to bullet point things and cut out things that don't relate to the immediate problem. You repeated yourself several times just around the smell occuring when the neighbours are there. Just to say that is enough, no one needs to know about dogs, cars etc. If you're dealing with professionals in the same manner, they're just going to be baffled.

    Most of us with neighbours share sewers and your collective deeds will allow each of you the right to have them there. There is no particular rule about water pipes on party walls, so I'm not sure where that's come from. In fact, there's a lot there that sound completey normal, yet you've got it IN SHOUTY CAPITALS as if they are completely absurd.

    Perhaps you could just stick to listing the symptoms to start with.
    Last edited by Doozergirl; 10-10-2017 at 9:47 PM.
    Everything that is supposed to be in heaven is already here on earth.
    • Doozergirl
    • By Doozergirl 10th Oct 17, 9:52 PM
    • 23,894 Posts
    • 66,417 Thanks
    Doozergirl
    • #6
    • 10th Oct 17, 9:52 PM
    • #6
    • 10th Oct 17, 9:52 PM
    Out of all of these professionals, someone must have had an opinion?
    Everything that is supposed to be in heaven is already here on earth.
    • Ectophile
    • By Ectophile 10th Oct 17, 9:59 PM
    • 2,739 Posts
    • 1,679 Thanks
    Ectophile
    • #7
    • 10th Oct 17, 9:59 PM
    • #7
    • 10th Oct 17, 9:59 PM
    ULTIMATELY I NEED TO KNOW HOW I CAN GET HIS WATER AND SEWER LINES REMOVED FROM MY UNDER MY PROPERTY WITH IMMEDIATE EFFECT PLEASE
    No, you can't.
    If it sticks, force it.
    If it breaks, well it wasn't working right anyway.
    • EachPenny
    • By EachPenny 10th Oct 17, 10:07 PM
    • 2,457 Posts
    • 4,074 Thanks
    EachPenny
    • #8
    • 10th Oct 17, 10:07 PM
    • #8
    • 10th Oct 17, 10:07 PM
    ...If you're dealing with professionals in the same manner, they're just going to be baffled...
    Originally posted by Doozergirl
    As a former drainage engineer with much experience dealing with (long) letters of a similar nature I can honestly say that I'm not baffled.

    OP: I mean this in the kindest way possible, but there is only one viable solution to this problem. You need to put your house on the market and start looking for a new home - since no amount of intervention by drainage engineers, Environmental Health, or lawyers will ever resolve this. You will simply pour money and time down the drain.
    "In the future, everyone will be rich for 15 minutes"
    • TheCyclingProgrammer
    • By TheCyclingProgrammer 10th Oct 17, 10:14 PM
    • 2,749 Posts
    • 1,544 Thanks
    TheCyclingProgrammer
    • #9
    • 10th Oct 17, 10:14 PM
    • #9
    • 10th Oct 17, 10:14 PM
    Can somebody please post a TLDR version?
    • bris
    • By bris 10th Oct 17, 10:15 PM
    • 6,937 Posts
    • 5,953 Thanks
    bris
    I got to the this has been happening for 20 years and lost interest.
    • EachPenny
    • By EachPenny 10th Oct 17, 10:27 PM
    • 2,457 Posts
    • 4,074 Thanks
    EachPenny
    Can somebody please post a TLDR version?
    Originally posted by TheCyclingProgrammer
    • Neighbour dispute.
    • Migrated to the battlefield of drainage/water systems.
    • Might be some real problem, but lost in fog of war.
    • Can never be resolved to satisfaction of both parties.
    • Lots of money and time (and health) at risk in not finding a solution.
    Will that do?

    Hopefully G_M will come by and offer the tea and cake solution at some point.
    "In the future, everyone will be rich for 15 minutes"
    • vw100
    • By vw100 10th Oct 17, 10:41 PM
    • 109 Posts
    • 53 Thanks
    vw100
    I like to solve problems, but this sort of problem to sort out would just be too much money, stress, and there might be no solution after all. Maybe best option is to sell up and move on. Clearly it stressing you out and reading your post i could sense the stress you are experiencing over this. Houses are just bricks and mortar after all, first most is your health. Sell it, or a auction sale might be better and be done with it.
    • Grenage
    • By Grenage 11th Oct 17, 6:53 AM
    • 1,257 Posts
    • 1,200 Thanks
    Grenage
    Hopefully G_M will come by and offer the tea and cake solution at some point.
    Originally posted by EachPenny
    Some things are beyond even cake.
    • Davesnave
    • By Davesnave 11th Oct 17, 8:26 AM
    • 23,319 Posts
    • 88,904 Thanks
    Davesnave
    "I have had no joy with the council, building control, enviromental health,water company a RICS guy and a guy from one of the UK's largest leak finding specialists...."

    All of this would suggest to a sensible person that you will never get a resolution. Random internet strangers, like us, cannot help.

    The simple answer is sell-up and move on with your life. You only get one, so wasting yours on drainage is just crazy.
    'A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they'll never sit in.'
    • Alter ego
    • By Alter ego 11th Oct 17, 9:43 AM
    • 2,105 Posts
    • 2,021 Thanks
    Alter ego
    The house is probably unsaleable via normal means once the dispute has been declared. Go to auction.
    Ignore me if you like, it's not the real me anyway.
    • Silvertabby
    • By Silvertabby 11th Oct 17, 11:52 AM
    • 1,652 Posts
    • 1,985 Thanks
    Silvertabby
    Move. You're not going to get what the house would have been worth without the problems, so cut your losses and either sell at action - or, if possible, part exchange your old house for a new build.
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