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  • FIRST POST
    • Newbie33
    • By Newbie33 10th Oct 17, 8:02 PM
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    Newbie33
    Colleagues statements against me being used in a disciplinary
    • #1
    • 10th Oct 17, 8:02 PM
    Colleagues statements against me being used in a disciplinary 10th Oct 17 at 8:02 PM
    I am due to attend my second disciplinary hearing, (due to having 2 days off holiday my supervisor was told but is denying all knowledge).
    I have received statements from my manager submitted by my colleagues,against me however they are not hand written they are not signed ,All have been typed up on a computer. What I'm wondering is can they be used against me in the hearing?
Page 1
    • Marktheshark
    • By Marktheshark 10th Oct 17, 8:03 PM
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    Marktheshark
    • #2
    • 10th Oct 17, 8:03 PM
    • #2
    • 10th Oct 17, 8:03 PM
    i would ask they are brought in to testify and read out the statement in front of you to verify its contents are truthful.
    Brexit will become whatever they invent it to be.
    • Cheeky_Monkey
    • By Cheeky_Monkey 10th Oct 17, 8:08 PM
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    Cheeky_Monkey
    • #3
    • 10th Oct 17, 8:08 PM
    • #3
    • 10th Oct 17, 8:08 PM
    i would ask they are brought in to testify and read out the statement in front of you to verify its contents are truthful.
    Originally posted by Marktheshark
    That's highly unlikely to happen.

    If they are not signed, I would suggest that they are not worth the paper they're printed on.
    I used to be indecisive - now I'm not so sure
    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 10th Oct 17, 8:33 PM
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    sangie595
    • #4
    • 10th Oct 17, 8:33 PM
    • #4
    • 10th Oct 17, 8:33 PM
    There is no reason at all why they must be handwritten or signed. If this is what you are depending on as a defence, then it is highly unlikely to impress. A better defence would be an explanation of why you didn't do what you are accused of.
    • Cheeky_Monkey
    • By Cheeky_Monkey 10th Oct 17, 8:38 PM
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    Cheeky_Monkey
    • #5
    • 10th Oct 17, 8:38 PM
    • #5
    • 10th Oct 17, 8:38 PM
    If the statements are not signed, how is the employee (and their union rep if applicable) supposed to know that they were genuinely written/typed by the OP's colleague/s rather than the employer themselves?
    I used to be indecisive - now I'm not so sure
    • Newbie33
    • By Newbie33 10th Oct 17, 9:24 PM
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    Newbie33
    • #6
    • 10th Oct 17, 9:24 PM
    • #6
    • 10th Oct 17, 9:24 PM
    The way the statements are worded would suggest it was the manager, but as they have stopped me from contacting my colleagues I cannot prove otherwise
    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 10th Oct 17, 9:47 PM
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    sangie595
    • #7
    • 10th Oct 17, 9:47 PM
    • #7
    • 10th Oct 17, 9:47 PM
    If the statements are not signed, how is the employee (and their union rep if applicable) supposed to know that they were genuinely written/typed by the OP's colleague/s rather than the employer themselves?
    Originally posted by Cheeky_Monkey
    There is no reason why they shouldn't have been written out by the manager though. Managers often take employee statements during investigations; and there is absolutely nothing in law that says they must be handwritten or signed.

    I'm sure my other point has been overlooked, but the best defence is how you didn't do whatever you are being accused of. I always get worried when people focus on irrelevant technicalities and aren't screaming their innocence from the rooftops. But to put this very simply - a disciplinary hearing is not a court of law, and there are no rules of evidence that employers must adhere to. The employer does not even need evidence that someone has done what they are accused of. They only require a "reasonable belief" that someone has done something. Depending on a technicality for a defence, even if the technicality has been done wrongly, is not going to get anyone off the hook. The relevant question is - did you do it?
    • tacpot12
    • By tacpot12 10th Oct 17, 9:56 PM
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    tacpot12
    • #8
    • 10th Oct 17, 9:56 PM
    • #8
    • 10th Oct 17, 9:56 PM
    If these statements are presented in the hearing, and you still think they were produced by the manager, just say that you believe the statements were not made by your colleagues and that you will be raising a grievance against the manager who you think is falsifying evidence against you unless the company provides evidence that they were written by your colleagues. Sangie595 is right; you need to be screaming that you are innocent and outraged at the managers unprincipled behaviour (if they have falsified the statements).

    Were you entitled to take the holiday you took as paid leave? (If so, and then the company has not lost out financially, unless it called in other staff to cover for you).

    How are holidays usually agreed with your supervisor? Verbally, via email, sms?

    Whose responsibility is it to record that holiday requests have been authorised and where do they do this? Do you normally receive any notification that a requested holiday has been authorised and logged?

    You need to build a case that you did what you have always done previously when booking holidays. If your employer has weak systems for authorising and recording leave, it's not your fault when this occasionally goes wrong.

    Good luck - I'd be interested to hear how you get on.
    Last edited by tacpot12; 10-10-2017 at 9:58 PM.
    • Newbie33
    • By Newbie33 10th Oct 17, 10:06 PM
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    Newbie33
    • #9
    • 10th Oct 17, 10:06 PM
    • #9
    • 10th Oct 17, 10:06 PM
    That's clarified that.
    I Informed my supervisor 10 months previous she did nothing about it and has denied any knowledge of the conversation we had.
    • TELLIT01
    • By TELLIT01 10th Oct 17, 10:12 PM
    • 4,242 Posts
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    TELLIT01
    The wording of the initial post suggests that the OP 'told' their manager they were taking holiday, rather than requesting it and having it agreed. If that is the case then it was unauthorised absence and would in itself potentially warrant disciplinary action.
    • Newbie33
    • By Newbie33 10th Oct 17, 10:22 PM
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    Newbie33
    Thank you for your comments, the disciplinary hearings on Monday I will update you on the outcome...
    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 10th Oct 17, 10:30 PM
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    sangie595
    That's clarified that.
    I Informed my supervisor 10 months previous she did nothing about it and has denied any knowledge of the conversation we had.
    Originally posted by Newbie33
    So the colleagues statements say what?

    You have a system for booking leave? If so, did that not involve submitting a written request, and obtaining an approval? Most employers don't rely on you simply "telling" someone that you will go on leave - even if you speak to a supervisor, you generally need some formal process as well.

    A disciplinary over what appears to be a mix-up at worst seems an over reaction. Is there some reason they want to get rid of you?
    • aife
    • By aife 10th Oct 17, 11:00 PM
    • 131 Posts
    • 107 Thanks
    aife
    It's quite possible your manager put words in your colleagues mouths and 'encouraged ' them to make statements , but I wouldn't depend on this too much. Sadly a lot of people will just go along with things , you may find nobody's willing to stick their neck out for you even if you have been stitched up.
    I'm wondering what these statements are about. Given that this sounds like a classic he said/she said scenario , what are they witnessing to ?
    Did you have a public discussion / argument with your supervisor ?
    Have you seen the statements ?
    Does your employer have any policy about letting you have the evidence beforehand ?
    Good luck with the hearing anyway
    • FBaby
    • By FBaby 11th Oct 17, 6:46 AM
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    FBaby
    I Informed my supervisor 10 months previous she did nothing about it and has denied any knowledge of the conversation we had.
    Do you mean you said to your manager 10 months ago that you were going away for a long week-end and you expected this to meet their time off policy? Very doubtful!!

    Interesting to know why colleagues would get involved in it, so there's probably more to the story.
    • Ozzuk
    • By Ozzuk 11th Oct 17, 2:10 PM
    • 1,174 Posts
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    Ozzuk
    As above, but aside from any policy did you expect them to just remember? If one of my team disappeared for two days then said they told me nearly a year ago I wouldn't be impressed.

    Common sense would say a quick 'don't forget I've got leave booked next week' should have happened.

    Perhaps your supervisor is getting criticised for not knowing where you were and now denying all knowledge of your 'talk'. Or perhaps they genuinely don't remember it.
    • ohreally
    • By ohreally 11th Oct 17, 2:17 PM
    • 6,357 Posts
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    ohreally
    Thank you for your comments, the disciplinary hearings on Monday I will update you on the outcome...
    Originally posted by Newbie33
    What is the case they have set out against you?
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