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  • FIRST POST
    • trigger fish
    • By trigger fish 10th Oct 17, 7:29 PM
    • 112Posts
    • 69Thanks
    trigger fish
    HMRC dispute eanings as employee-where do we go?
    • #1
    • 10th Oct 17, 7:29 PM
    HMRC dispute eanings as employee-where do we go? 10th Oct 17 at 7:29 PM
    Basically HMRC dispute the figures given for child tax credit purposes.

    Her P60 16/17 says "total for year" £14272.88.

    However, HMRC say it was actually £18249.00 which is impossible.

    Circumstances- 1 child 16, no disabilities.

    My salary-16/17 £1300

    Her pension 16/17 £4000

    She is still working for the company and will inquire very soon as to the companies figure.

    Once again I'm worrying about tax credit overpayment .

    I've contacted them by phone as to what I think are the correct figures but frankly,going on past experience, I don't trust them to get it right.
    Last edited by trigger fish; 10-10-2017 at 7:36 PM.
Page 1
    • Darksparkle
    • By Darksparkle 10th Oct 17, 7:45 PM
    • 4,609 Posts
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    Darksparkle
    • #2
    • 10th Oct 17, 7:45 PM
    • #2
    • 10th Oct 17, 7:45 PM
    I assume she declared the pension as “other income”? And was it exactly £4,000?

    It could be that causing the discrepancy as if its an occupational pension it goes through RTI the same as employment income.

    What does her personal tax account show?
    • trigger fish
    • By trigger fish 10th Oct 17, 8:08 PM
    • 112 Posts
    • 69 Thanks
    trigger fish
    • #3
    • 10th Oct 17, 8:08 PM
    • #3
    • 10th Oct 17, 8:08 PM
    I assume she declared the pension as “other income”? And was it exactly £4,000?

    It could be that causing the discrepancy as if its an occupational pension it goes through RTI the same as employment income.

    What does her personal tax account show?
    Originally posted by Darksparkle
    Yes. Other income.

    Her works pension came in for 16/17 at just under £4000.

    As to "personal tax account" I on't know what that means sorry.
    • Darksparkle
    • By Darksparkle 10th Oct 17, 8:10 PM
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    Darksparkle
    • #4
    • 10th Oct 17, 8:10 PM
    • #4
    • 10th Oct 17, 8:10 PM
    So the discrepancy in income is £3977 so just under £4,000. What does her pension p60 show?

    https://www.gov.uk/personal-tax-account
    • Dazed and confused
    • By Dazed and confused 10th Oct 17, 8:25 PM
    • 1,768 Posts
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    Dazed and confused
    • #5
    • 10th Oct 17, 8:25 PM
    • #5
    • 10th Oct 17, 8:25 PM
    According to this link you have to declare pension income

    https://www.gov.uk/guidance/tax-credits-working-out-income#other-income

    If you have a job and a pension you will usually get 2 P60's, one for the job and one for the pension. If you have only declared the job to tax credits that's the problem, unlikely to be anything to do with the P60 from your wife's job
    • trigger fish
    • By trigger fish 10th Oct 17, 8:33 PM
    • 112 Posts
    • 69 Thanks
    trigger fish
    • #6
    • 10th Oct 17, 8:33 PM
    • #6
    • 10th Oct 17, 8:33 PM
    So the discrepancy in income is £3977 so just under £4,000. What does her pension p60 show?

    https://www.gov.uk/personal-tax-account
    Originally posted by Darksparkle
    It says £3976.68

    That figure (i've just checked) is on the fresh tax credits award form.
    Last edited by trigger fish; 10-10-2017 at 8:38 PM.
    • trigger fish
    • By trigger fish 10th Oct 17, 8:35 PM
    • 112 Posts
    • 69 Thanks
    trigger fish
    • #7
    • 10th Oct 17, 8:35 PM
    • #7
    • 10th Oct 17, 8:35 PM
    According to this link you have to declare pension income

    https://www.gov.uk/guidance/tax-credits-working-out-income#other-income

    If you have a job and a pension you will usually get 2 P60's, one for the job and one for the pension. If you have only declared the job to tax credits that's the problem, unlikely to be anything to do with the P60 from your wife's job
    Originally posted by Dazed and confused
    It was declared as other income.

    Civil service widows pension.

    As above as other income £3976.
    Last edited by trigger fish; 10-10-2017 at 8:41 PM.
    • Darksparkle
    • By Darksparkle 10th Oct 17, 8:39 PM
    • 4,609 Posts
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    Darksparkle
    • #8
    • 10th Oct 17, 8:39 PM
    • #8
    • 10th Oct 17, 8:39 PM
    It was declared as other income.

    Civil service widows pension.
    Originally posted by trigger fish
    So just explain that to them. As I mentioned above, occupational pensions are reported to HMRC in the same way as employment income so this is why there is some confusion.
    • trigger fish
    • By trigger fish 10th Oct 17, 8:56 PM
    • 112 Posts
    • 69 Thanks
    trigger fish
    • #9
    • 10th Oct 17, 8:56 PM
    • #9
    • 10th Oct 17, 8:56 PM
    Thanks all so far

    The tax credit award form says total household income £23,337. Projected next year £25,000

    "Earnings as an employee" £18249.00-my partner

    My earnings- £1266.00

    Other income ie pension £3976.00

    However, her work p60 says earnings 16/17 £14272.88
    • Dazed and confused
    • By Dazed and confused 10th Oct 17, 8:56 PM
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    Dazed and confused
    Or accept what HMRC say but insist on them removing the "other income"?
    • Darksparkle
    • By Darksparkle 10th Oct 17, 9:26 PM
    • 4,609 Posts
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    Darksparkle
    So tell them what it says on the P60 and explain the other income is her pension.
    • trigger fish
    • By trigger fish 10th Oct 17, 11:13 PM
    • 112 Posts
    • 69 Thanks
    trigger fish
    My belief is that they have counted the pension twice.

    Open to other offers.
    • xylophone
    • By xylophone 11th Oct 17, 8:26 AM
    • 23,128 Posts
    • 13,406 Thanks
    xylophone
    Surely your wife receives a P60 for the pension and a P60 for employment income?

    And if she is completing a tax return, a pension is not "other income"?

    https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/503309/sa100_2016.pdf

    Box 11.
    • Darksparkle
    • By Darksparkle 11th Oct 17, 10:33 AM
    • 4,609 Posts
    • 2,907 Thanks
    Darksparkle
    Surely your wife receives a P60 for the pension and a P60 for employment income?

    And if she is completing a tax return, a pension is not "other income"?

    https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/503309/sa100_2016.pdf

    Box 11.
    Originally posted by xylophone
    The question relates to tax credits not self assessment. It’s other income for tax credits purposes as it doesn’t fall within the other categories. A link was already provided to OP and they’ve confirmed it’s included in other income on their tax credit award notice.
    • trigger fish
    • By trigger fish 11th Oct 17, 1:59 PM
    • 112 Posts
    • 69 Thanks
    trigger fish
    Surely your wife receives a P60 for the pension and a P60 for employment income?

    And if she is completing a tax return, a pension is not "other income"?

    https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/503309/sa100_2016.pdf

    Box 11.
    Originally posted by xylophone
    Yes.

    Shes does receive p60's for both earnings and pension.

    But as darksparkle typed for tax credit purposes the pension goes into box 'other earnings'.
    • xylophone
    • By xylophone 11th Oct 17, 2:41 PM
    • 23,128 Posts
    • 13,406 Thanks
    xylophone
    In which case you/your wife write to HMRC/TC enclosing copies of the P60s and request that the information be accurately recorded on a revised award letter?
    • CakeCrusader
    • By CakeCrusader 11th Oct 17, 3:32 PM
    • 358 Posts
    • 162 Thanks
    CakeCrusader
    You could do with checking whether they are calculating from the gross or the net income. I'm having this problem, and they are adamant that they are right (even though it says to deduct work/gift aid etc expenses on their 'how to calculate their income' form.
    • Darksparkle
    • By Darksparkle 11th Oct 17, 3:58 PM
    • 4,609 Posts
    • 2,907 Thanks
    Darksparkle
    You could do with checking whether they are calculating from the gross or the net income. I'm having this problem, and they are adamant that they are right (even though it says to deduct work/gift aid etc expenses on their 'how to calculate their income' form.
    Originally posted by CakeCrusader
    The issue here is that they are including her pension as employment income when it is other income. It’s not to do with contributions.
    • trigger fish
    • By trigger fish 11th Oct 17, 4:00 PM
    • 112 Posts
    • 69 Thanks
    trigger fish
    In which case you/your wife write to HMRC/TC enclosing copies of the P60s and request that the information be accurately recorded on a revised award letter?
    Originally posted by xylophone
    That's a fair enough idea.

    But you cannot send copies as such to the tax credits and other places. They only accept originals which I do have.

    I have already rung them and got the main earnings figure changed to what it says on her works p60. Her works have confirmed that the p60 figure is correct. The p60 figure April/16/17 says £14272.88 but on the tax credits form it says her earnings were £18249.00 which is simply inaccurate.

    My earnings were £1266.00 approx because I can't find my p60 but its certainly £100 either way.

    The "other income"declared on the form ie her pension is £3976.

    I might give them another ring later after 7

    It's not the first time we've had problems with tax credits. One year a decimal point was placed in the wrong place leading to the renewal being rejected as the decimal point put the income too high.
    Last edited by trigger fish; 11-10-2017 at 4:07 PM.
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