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  • FIRST POST
    • Mrspigott
    • By Mrspigott 10th Oct 17, 4:43 PM
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    Mrspigott
    Benefit entitlement when receiveing 20k frim house sale.
    • #1
    • 10th Oct 17, 4:43 PM
    Benefit entitlement when receiveing 20k frim house sale. 10th Oct 17 at 4:43 PM
    Hi - i'm desperate for an answer to my query; i will very soon be receiving 20k in my bank account, due to me and my siblings, grievously, having to sell my Mum's house due to her traumatic self inflicted death. I'm on benefits, currently, and finding it hard to get a job, and i don't want to needlessly waste this unfortunate/fortunate inheritance - What are the rules and limits on savings when your already claiming JSA and Housing benefit, as oppose to processing a claim with initial savings - please don't see my as a scrounger, because if you knew the situation, you'd understand, otherwise!!! Thank you, anyone......
Page 1
    • pmlindyloo
    • By pmlindyloo 10th Oct 17, 4:54 PM
    • 10,902 Posts
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    pmlindyloo
    • #2
    • 10th Oct 17, 4:54 PM
    • #2
    • 10th Oct 17, 4:54 PM
    If you are on income based JSA then the maximum limit on savings s £16000.

    Anything over £6000 to £16000 is deducted from your JSA at a rate of £1 for every £250 over the £6000.

    Savings over £16000 would mean that you would not be entitled to any means tested benefits until your savings reached below £16000.

    So when the money hits your bank you will lose income related JSA, HB and CTR.
    • TELLIT01
    • By TELLIT01 10th Oct 17, 6:08 PM
    • 4,245 Posts
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    TELLIT01
    • #3
    • 10th Oct 17, 6:08 PM
    • #3
    • 10th Oct 17, 6:08 PM
    pmlindyloo is absolutely correct. There is no flexibility in application of the rules about entitlement. Until the savings drop back below £16000 you will have no entitlement to income related benefits. Also, do not even think about giving some of the money away as that would be classed as deprivation of capital, and for benefit purposes you would be deemed still to have it.
    • dippy3103
    • By dippy3103 10th Oct 17, 7:58 PM
    • 1,750 Posts
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    dippy3103
    • #4
    • 10th Oct 17, 7:58 PM
    • #4
    • 10th Oct 17, 7:58 PM
    You can use it to support you whilst you take stock and work out where you are going in life. That's not s waste. The rules are the same for everyone
    • Mersey
    • By Mersey 10th Oct 17, 8:53 PM
    • 1,630 Posts
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    Mersey
    • #5
    • 10th Oct 17, 8:53 PM
    • #5
    • 10th Oct 17, 8:53 PM
    pmlindyloo is absolutely correct. There is no flexibility in application of the rules about entitlement. Until the savings drop back below £16000 you will have no entitlement to income related benefits.
    Originally posted by TELLIT01


    It depends what you mean by that statement.


    Whilst it's true that a new claimant would not be entitled to means-tested benefits if they had capital in excess of £16k, it does not mean that a temporary influx of funds negates a current live claim.


    If you are planning to buy another property your capital could be disregarded, but this is not forever.



    Plus also remember the Tribunal ruling means that it's effectively net assets of £16k which is the upper limit, eg if a claimant had £18k in the bank and an overdraft of £3k, they would be deemed to have capital of £15k for benefit purposes, as the overdraft is repayable on demand.


    In the same way if a claimant won £20k on the Lottery or horses, that would not of itself negate any live claim.



    Last edited by Mersey; 10-10-2017 at 8:57 PM.
    Please be polite to OPs and remember this is a site for Claimants and Appellants to seek redress against their bank, ex-boss or retailer. If they wanted morality or the view of the IoD or Bank they'd ask them.
    • TELLIT01
    • By TELLIT01 10th Oct 17, 10:05 PM
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    TELLIT01
    • #6
    • 10th Oct 17, 10:05 PM
    • #6
    • 10th Oct 17, 10:05 PM


    If you are planning to buy another property your capital could be disregarded, but this is not forever.


    Originally posted by Mersey
    To the best of my knowledge that only applies if the claimant has sold one property and is planning to purchase another. The proceeds from the house sale can be disregarded, initially for 6 months. In this instance the claimant is in receipt of a legacy, they have not sold their own property.
    I'm fairly sure that the disregard would not apply in this instance.
    From my reading of the OP, the claimant lives in rented accommodation (in receipt of HB), and is unlikely to be in a position to purchase their own property even if a potential disregard period did exist.
    • Cheeky_Monkey
    • By Cheeky_Monkey 11th Oct 17, 10:38 AM
    • 1,410 Posts
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    Cheeky_Monkey
    • #7
    • 11th Oct 17, 10:38 AM
    • #7
    • 11th Oct 17, 10:38 AM
    Hi - i'm desperate for an answer to my query; i will very soon be receiving 20k in my bank account, due to me and my siblings, grievously, having to sell my Mum's house due to her traumatic self inflicted death. I'm on benefits, currently, and finding it hard to get a job, and i don't want to needlessly waste this unfortunate/fortunate inheritance - What are the rules and limits on savings when your already claiming JSA and Housing benefit, as oppose to processing a claim with initial savings - please don't see my as a scrounger, because if you knew the situation, you'd understand, otherwise!!! Thank you, anyone......
    Originally posted by Mrspigott
    The underlying tone of your post suggests, to me at least, that you are indeed wanting to keep the £20k and all your benefits.

    Apologies if that's not the case but that's how it comes across to me.
    I used to be indecisive - now I'm not so sure
    • Carrieanne
    • By Carrieanne 11th Oct 17, 11:19 AM
    • 71 Posts
    • 70 Thanks
    Carrieanne
    • #8
    • 11th Oct 17, 11:19 AM
    • #8
    • 11th Oct 17, 11:19 AM
    The OP must be aware that it is critical to declare the £20K the instant it lands in their bank account and close any claims for means-tested benefits. For as long as they have above £16K they will have no recourse to means-tested benefits, and having between £6K and £16K payments will be reduced by £4 per thousand for every thousand above £6K. Unless their position changes for the better it's conceivable that within two or three years until the savings is reduced to below £6K that in effect the inheritance windfall will replace £14K's worth of means-tested benefit payments.

    The OP should also be aware that if/when they make a new means-tested claim attention will be paid to their spending to determine whether it was reasonable. They might wish to acquire and retain receipts for goods and services they make from cash withdrawn from their account.
    • kingfisherblue
    • By kingfisherblue 11th Oct 17, 2:29 PM
    • 7,406 Posts
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    kingfisherblue
    • #9
    • 11th Oct 17, 2:29 PM
    • #9
    • 11th Oct 17, 2:29 PM
    Hi - i'm desperate for an answer to my query; i will very soon be receiving 20k in my bank account, due to me and my siblings, grievously, having to sell my Mum's house due to her traumatic self inflicted death. I'm on benefits, currently, and finding it hard to get a job, and i don't want to needlessly waste this unfortunate/fortunate inheritance - What are the rules and limits on savings when your already claiming JSA and Housing benefit, as oppose to processing a claim with initial savings - please don't see my as a scrounger, because if you knew the situation, you'd understand, otherwise!!! Thank you, anyone......
    Originally posted by Mrspigott
    You won't be wasting it, you'll be using it for living costs. I'm not sure why you think that you should continue to receive means tested benefits when you have £20,000 in the bank.

    Whatever your situation, the rules are the same. It's not whether anybody sees you as a scrounger or not, it's simply a case of following the rules - and to do this, you will have to declare the money and give up your means tested benefits for a period of time.
    • Mersey
    • By Mersey 12th Oct 17, 7:01 PM
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    Mersey
    To the best of my knowledge that only applies if the claimant has sold one property and is planning to purchase another. The proceeds from the house sale can be disregarded, initially for 6 months. In this instance the claimant is in receipt of a legacy, they have not sold their own property.
    I'm fairly sure that the disregard would not apply in this instance.
    From my reading of the OP, the claimant lives in rented accommodation (in receipt of HB), and is unlikely to be in a position to purchase their own property even if a potential disregard period did exist.
    Originally posted by TELLIT01


    That may well be the case - I (also) took the OP to mean they are due to inherit c £20k which was a portion of the estate.


    I was merely explaining to readers why your claim ("there is no flexibility in the application of the rules about entitlement") was false.


    Indeed inheriting - or winning - a lump sum of £ is one of the very exceptions Tribunals have upheld (although it's usually if eg £50k is received and then shared with relatives or an overdraft cleared).


    I take your point (there were only 2,000 properties you could purchase for £20k last year - although the beneficiaries could between them and the disregard also applies to deposits for a property).




    Whilst it's always advisable to notify the DWP and/or council of any large windfall, the sum of £20k will probably only take half of claimants over the effective £16k of net assets which is the upper threshold (as clearly only £4k of debts repayable on demand would be needed, or eg £3k and £1k of essential spending). But I agree with your presupposition for windfalls greater than £20k.
    Last edited by Mersey; 12-10-2017 at 7:08 PM.
    Please be polite to OPs and remember this is a site for Claimants and Appellants to seek redress against their bank, ex-boss or retailer. If they wanted morality or the view of the IoD or Bank they'd ask them.
    • Owain Moneysaver
    • By Owain Moneysaver 12th Oct 17, 10:14 PM
    • 7,586 Posts
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    Owain Moneysaver
    The OP should also be aware that if/when they make a new means-tested claim attention will be paid to their spending to determine whether it was reasonable. They might wish to acquire and retain receipts for goods and services they make from cash withdrawn from their account.
    Originally posted by Carrieanne
    And even some major expenditure on goods and services may be regarded as not deprivation of capital.

    Using the money to learn to drive and buy a small car may be reasonable, especially if it improves employment prospects.
    A kind word lasts a minute, a skelped erse is sair for a day.
    • Carrieanne
    • By Carrieanne 14th Oct 17, 12:11 AM
    • 71 Posts
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    Carrieanne
    Sure. Ultimately though it would be down to the opinion of an anonymous Decision Maker. I suppose it wouldn't be uncommon for someone in the OP's situation to spend £4K in a matter of weeks on any number of goods and/or services. It would raise an eyebrow if, for example, a TV, Laptop and cooker all conked out to need replacing along with the three piece suite that paint had spilt on, plus that £1,000 10-day all inclusive holiday in the Dominican Republic.
    • Cactus_Jack
    • By Cactus_Jack 10th Nov 17, 2:34 PM
    • 556 Posts
    • 75 Thanks
    Cactus_Jack
    I didn't want to create a new thread so I'll add it here as it is relevant:

    Is there NO exceptions to the no JSA if over £16k rule?

    I'm being totally honest with them and as such I'm receiving nothing now my contribution based element has ended. But my capital clearly doesn't provide anything like an income
    • xylophone
    • By xylophone 10th Nov 17, 2:52 PM
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    xylophone
    But my capital clearly doesn't provide anything like an income
    I think the idea is that you must use the capital as an income replacement until it is reduced to a level where you are eligible to claim means tested benefits.
    • trigger fish
    • By trigger fish 10th Nov 17, 4:10 PM
    • 468 Posts
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    trigger fish
    OP-I take no pleasure in typing this but if you have to pay daily living expenses, mortgage/full rent, full council tax , dentist, prescriptions, then you'll soon find yourself below the 16k threshold.
    • TELLIT01
    • By TELLIT01 10th Nov 17, 4:19 PM
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    TELLIT01
    OP-I take no pleasure in typing this but if you have to pay daily living expenses, mortgage/full rent, full council tax , dentist, prescriptions, then you'll soon find yourself below the 16k threshold.
    Originally posted by trigger fish
    Very true. The OP just needs to keep a careful note of expenditure and then claim JSA again as soon as savings drop below £16k.
    • Penitent
    • By Penitent 10th Nov 17, 4:33 PM
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    Penitent
    I didn't want to create a new thread so I'll add it here as it is relevant:

    Is there NO exceptions to the no JSA if over £16k rule?

    I'm being totally honest with them and as such I'm receiving nothing now my contribution based element has ended. But my capital clearly doesn't provide anything like an income
    Originally posted by Cactus_Jack
    Honestly, I understand your disappointment. It is a bit sad watching a large chunk of money that you saved up for retirement, a house deposit, etc. dwindle away on normal living expenses, but try to keep in mind that JSA is only supposed to be a temporary safety net and they have to draw the line somewhere if people don't need that support due to their savings.

    Best of luck finding another job.
    Last edited by Penitent; 10-11-2017 at 4:37 PM.
    • trigger fish
    • By trigger fish 10th Nov 17, 4:36 PM
    • 468 Posts
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    trigger fish
    I'm interested in the driving angle.

    We don't know whether the OP drives or not.

    As virtually everyone on nights will tell you personal transport in the vast majority of places is essential so going on the angle of improved employment prospects then driving lessons or an upgrade of the car seems reasonable to me.

    But again at the whim of the decision maker who could see it as deprivation of capital.

    At least with that you might feel that you have gained something from the money not just chucked it into the great black hole.
    Last edited by trigger fish; 10-11-2017 at 4:41 PM.
    • TELLIT01
    • By TELLIT01 10th Nov 17, 6:46 PM
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    TELLIT01
    I'm interested in the driving angle.

    We don't know whether the OP drives or not.

    As virtually everyone on nights will tell you personal transport in the vast majority of places is essential so going on the angle of improved employment prospects then driving lessons or an upgrade of the car seems reasonable to me.

    But again at the whim of the decision maker who could see it as deprivation of capital.

    At least with that you might feel that you have gained something from the money not just chucked it into the great black hole.
    Originally posted by trigger fish
    Neither driving lessons nor purchasing a decent car are likely to considered to be deprivation of capital. It's all about proportionality. Buy a car for a few grand isn't going to create a problem. Blow the whole £20k on a car and it probably would create a problem.
    • PollySouthend
    • By PollySouthend 11th Nov 17, 8:10 AM
    • 379 Posts
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    PollySouthend
    It's not wasted.

    I saved for a house deposit but when I became unable to work I spent most of my 40k on living, whereas if I haden't of saved a penny it would have be paid for. That's life.
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