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  • FIRST POST
    • AndyPix
    • By AndyPix 10th Oct 17, 4:16 PM
    • 3,022Posts
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    AndyPix
    DPF Regen ??
    • #1
    • 10th Oct 17, 4:16 PM
    DPF Regen ?? 10th Oct 17 at 4:16 PM
    Hi all,
    My car (BMW 520d) has started to suffer with a bit of lag in the acceleration.
    I have had it at a garage on the computer and apparently the DPF is blocked and requires regeneration.


    This is quite expensive so i was wondering if anyone has had any results from the various fuel treatments that can be added to the diesel tank ??


    Thanks in advance
    Running with scissors since 1978
Page 2
    • IanMSpencer
    • By IanMSpencer 11th Oct 17, 10:31 AM
    • 1,115 Posts
    • 877 Thanks
    IanMSpencer
    We were talking about fuel additives to clean the dpf when we talked about snake oil. Is theirs a fuel additive?
    Originally posted by motorguy
    No, but in the general context of talking about dodgy fluids and dodgy backstreet garages, it seemed appropriate to be clear that some cleaning systems that use fluids do work and are legit.

    I think the general point is, that with a blocked DPF you have to do something, and although there may be some hacks that might work, having a proper clean might work out cheaper than going for the hack and finding that it hasn't worked and being then charged for a full clean.

    My experience is that there are dirty engines that have been modified to work with DPFs as a solution and they are prone to DPF issues and there are newer engines that were designed to run cleaner. The OP doesn't say how old his Beemer is, but I suspect it might be an early DPF model - cruising on a motorway should be perfect DPF territory unless he is thrashing it with lots of foot to the floor acceleration which produces soot. Apparently, blocked DPFs can then cause high oil level warnings as fuel is forced into the oil system so not worth messing with.

    I drive my 220 Merc in all sorts of unsuitable conditions - short town journeys) and don't do a massive mileage and yet haven't had a hint of DPF issues, I think because it was designed for DPF at the start and I don't floor the accelerator (and it is automatic and can manage engine revs appropriately so it is always working efficiently).
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 11th Oct 17, 4:29 PM
    • 15,814 Posts
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    motorguy
    No, but in the general context of talking about dodgy fluids and dodgy backstreet garages, it seemed appropriate to be clear that some cleaning systems that use fluids do work and are legit.

    I think the general point is, that with a blocked DPF you have to do something, and although there may be some hacks that might work, having a proper clean might work out cheaper than going for the hack and finding that it hasn't worked and being then charged for a full clean.

    My experience is that there are dirty engines that have been modified to work with DPFs as a solution and they are prone to DPF issues and there are newer engines that were designed to run cleaner. The OP doesn't say how old his Beemer is, but I suspect it might be an early DPF model - cruising on a motorway should be perfect DPF territory unless he is thrashing it with lots of foot to the floor acceleration which produces soot. Apparently, blocked DPFs can then cause high oil level warnings as fuel is forced into the oil system so not worth messing with.

    I drive my 220 Merc in all sorts of unsuitable conditions - short town journeys) and don't do a massive mileage and yet haven't had a hint of DPF issues, I think because it was designed for DPF at the start and I don't floor the accelerator (and it is automatic and can manage engine revs appropriately so it is always working efficiently).
    Originally posted by IanMSpencer
    My Passat is 2016 and it had DPF issues from within a fortnight of me getting it at a year old with 16,000 miles on it. VW replaced the DPF at 20,000 miles, after it had been in for various forced regens, etc.

    My brother has a 2011 C250CDI Sport and hes having DPF problems with it too.

    Wholly agree RE: the like of Cataclean being a viable, proven product - its the "just stick it in your fuel tank" solutions that arent going to clear out a DPF.

    If i had DPF problems i'd probably go down the full DPF off professional clean - but TBH i'm galled that a 2016 car can be affected by DPF issues so i'd say i'll flog it and replace it with a petrol car before the warranty expires in 18 months time.
    You are not special. You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake.
    • Ranger8
    • By Ranger8 11th Oct 17, 4:39 PM
    • 354 Posts
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    Ranger8
    2 of the best DPF fuel additive cleaners are Archoil AR6400d http://archoil.eu/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/ARCHOIL%20AR6400-D%20Product%20Tech%20Sheet%20Europe.pdf
    and Forte DPF Cleaner and Regenerator
    http://www.forteuk.co.uk/product-detail/25/DPF-Cleaner-and-Regenerator
    Both are well regarded as effective unless there is a specific reason why the DPF is full.
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 11th Oct 17, 5:07 PM
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    motorguy
    Originally posted by Ranger8
    "that quickly and safely remove gum, varnish and carbon
    deposits from the fuel system and engine" - doesnt mention DPF. This will not clean a blocked DPF. It cant.


    and Forte DPF Cleaner and Regenerator
    http://www.forteuk.co.uk/product-detail/25/DPF-Cleaner-and-Regenerator
    Both are well regarded as effective unless there is a specific reason why the DPF is full.
    Originally posted by Ranger8
    Helps keep a DPF clean, but will not clear a blocked DPF.


    Both are well regarded as effective unless there is a specific reason why the DPF is full.
    Originally posted by Ranger8
    You mean like the O/Ps DPF being blocked?

    There is not a mission that either of these can unblock a DPF just by adding it to the fuel. They might help keep a DPF clean, they might prolong the DPF from eventually blocking up, but they will NOT clear a blocked DPF.
    Last edited by motorguy; 11-10-2017 at 5:12 PM.
    You are not special. You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake.
    • Mercdriver
    • By Mercdriver 11th Oct 17, 5:15 PM
    • 1,459 Posts
    • 997 Thanks
    Mercdriver
    Or an even dodgier back street garage that will remove it and reprogram your engine management to work without one. Surprisingly (or maybe not), there seem to be quite a few when you do a google search, perhaps trading standards and VOSA are short staffed?
    Originally posted by Frozen_up_north
    What I've heard of is back street garages gutting the DPF as the DPF isn't inspected itself, just that it is present.
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 11th Oct 17, 6:41 PM
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    motorguy
    What I've heard of is back street garages gutting the DPF as the DPF isn't inspected itself, just that it is present.
    Originally posted by Mercdriver
    Yup. They can only check for the presence of the DPF unit, not the contents.
    You are not special. You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake.
    • forgotmyname
    • By forgotmyname 11th Oct 17, 9:53 PM
    • 26,214 Posts
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    forgotmyname
    Basically ,yes, I think so .
    Or they may apply external heat, blowtorch, blow air through ?? I don't know
    Probably not, they may just trigger a regen leaving it running at high revs, as the car is not moving there wont be much airflow through the radiator so it will get warmer than normal.

    I guess so, but more like lab conditions
    ie it wouldn't be under load, and could be precisely monitored
    Nope its going to be in the yard most likely unless they have pipes to vent the exhaust outside.


    Id almost certainly blow it up if I tried to do this on the motorway
    It wont blow up, your not red lining it, 3500rpm will do it. Whatever gear gets 50-60mph around 3500rpm. It wont redline until approx 5000+ on that engine i think?
    When driving do you boot it? Diesels like hard acceleration every now and then, that blows the build up of soot out the exhaust.

    Yes, it does sound rather unlikely when you say it like that
    Running whilst parked wont put the engine under much load.

    Is that a serious suggestion ?
    Originally posted by AndyPix
    Read the ingredient in a lot of the injector and fuel cleaners, for diesels its often paraffin or similar products.
    A diesel specialist said he puts in 4 or 5 litres of vegetable oil into his car every now and then. He said it removes laquers that some diesels leave behind.

    The first time its used the fuel filter will probably need changing soon after as it catches the muck removed from the system.



    As post 16, If they do not take it off to clean if properly then they are doing little more than a thrash up the motorway.

    After getting it done you need to thrash it every now and then, that doesnt mean taking it to the red line, but just hard acceleration on slip roads etc, where safe obviously.
    Punctuation, Spelling and Grammar will be used sparingly. Due to rising costs of inflation.

    My contribution to MSE. Other contributions will only be used if they cost me nothing.

    Due to me being a tight git.
    • Ranger8
    • By Ranger8 12th Oct 17, 7:58 AM
    • 354 Posts
    • 187 Thanks
    Ranger8
    "that quickly and safely remove gum, varnish and carbon
    deposits from the fuel system and engine" - doesnt mention DPF. This will not clean a blocked DPF. It cant.



    Helps keep a DPF clean, but will not clear a blocked DPF.



    You mean like the O/Ps DPF being blocked?

    There is not a mission that either of these can unblock a DPF just by adding it to the fuel. They might help keep a DPF clean, they might prolong the DPF from eventually blocking up, but they will NOT clear a blocked DPF.
    Originally posted by motorguy
    The OP said
    ` I have had it at a garage on the computer and apparently the DPF is blocked and requires regeneration.
    This is quite expensive so i was wondering if anyone has had any results from the various fuel treatments that can be added to the diesel tank ??`

    As a completely blocked DPF cannot regenerate I offered the above treatments as possible solutions to the OPs DPF which presumably still can and is why he asked.
    The Archoil product I shouldve quoted is AR6500
    Last edited by Ranger8; 12-10-2017 at 8:05 AM.
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 12th Oct 17, 8:15 AM
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    motorguy
    The OP said
    ` I have had it at a garage on the computer and apparently the DPF is blocked and requires regeneration.
    This is quite expensive so i was wondering if anyone has had any results from the various fuel treatments that can be added to the diesel tank ??`

    As a completely blocked DPF cannot regenerate I offered the above treatments as possible solutions to the OPs DPF which presumably still can and is why he asked.
    The Archoil product I shouldve quoted is AR6500
    Originally posted by Ranger8
    To the point of actually inhibiting the performance of the car suggests its "blocked" beyond being able to be cleaned by some potion in your fuel - "My car (BMW 520d) has started to suffer with a bit of lag in the acceleration."

    If the O/P wants to stick a potion in, then grand, i'd be stunned if it cured it. At best sticking one in and resetting the light might appear to resolve it for a few weeks.
    You are not special. You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake.
    • Tarambor
    • By Tarambor 12th Oct 17, 11:15 AM
    • 1,746 Posts
    • 1,198 Thanks
    Tarambor
    Or an even dodgier back street garage that will remove it and reprogram your engine management to work without one. Surprisingly (or maybe not), there seem to be quite a few when you do a google search, perhaps trading standards and VOSA are short staffed?
    Originally posted by Frozen_up_north
    They might be but the MOT test stations are not and a pipe where there should be a DPF filter is an automatic fail.
    • Ranger8
    • By Ranger8 12th Oct 17, 12:04 PM
    • 354 Posts
    • 187 Thanks
    Ranger8

    If the O/P wants to stick a potion in, then grand, i'd be stunned if it cured it. At best sticking one in and resetting the light might appear to resolve it for a few weeks.
    Originally posted by motorguy
    Nobody suggested it would be a permanent solution, like life a DPF doesn't last forever would you give in because there's only weeks left..... when do you call it a day ?
    • n217970
    • By n217970 12th Oct 17, 12:11 PM
    • 240 Posts
    • 177 Thanks
    n217970
    They might be but the MOT test stations are not and a pipe where there should be a DPF filter is an automatic fail.
    Originally posted by Tarambor
    The "back street" garage take the DPF from the car, cut it open from above and remove the filter, before welding the DPF back up and refitting to the car. The ECU is then reprogrammed o not run the regens. Without removing the filter from the car - which I am sure you know an MOT tester can not do - it appears to be present and is passed. It helps that diesel smoke tests are nearly impossible to fail.
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 12th Oct 17, 2:23 PM
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    motorguy
    Nobody suggested it would be a permanent solution, like life a DPF doesn't last forever would you give in because there's only weeks left..... when do you call it a day ?
    Originally posted by Ranger8
    Lol. Whilst I love your analogy, I'm an awful lot more fond of life than I am of my DPF and I'd kind of just like a problem like that solved rather than just kicking the can down the road.

    Each to their own though. It could be enough to get a few extra weeks, extra months or just to the next pay day or until the car gets traded in.
    You are not special. You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake.
    • Stoke
    • By Stoke 12th Oct 17, 2:46 PM
    • 1,998 Posts
    • 841 Thanks
    Stoke
    My dads passat had some problems with the DPF a while back. When driving it would go into some sort of limp mode where it would lose all drive and pressing the accelerator would do nothing for a few seconds, then it'd cut back in.

    I took it off him and took it for a few decent runs up the motorway.

    Hasn't done it since. That said, I think DPF's will always put me off having a more modern diesel.
    • AndyPix
    • By AndyPix 12th Oct 17, 4:02 PM
    • 3,022 Posts
    • 2,092 Thanks
    AndyPix
    Thanks for the input guys ..


    I will book it in for the regen on payday..


    Out of interest, iv ordered a tub of the snake oil and will report back if it does anything ..
    Running with scissors since 1978
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 12th Oct 17, 4:16 PM
    • 15,814 Posts
    • 9,097 Thanks
    motorguy
    My dads passat had some problems with the DPF a while back. When driving it would go into some sort of limp mode where it would lose all drive and pressing the accelerator would do nothing for a few seconds, then it'd cut back in.

    I took it off him and took it for a few decent runs up the motorway.

    Hasn't done it since. That said, I think DPF's will always put me off having a more modern diesel.
    Originally posted by Stoke
    +1

    I bought the passat as a keeper but I can't see me running it outside of manufacturers warranty.
    You are not special. You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake.
    • Ranger8
    • By Ranger8 12th Oct 17, 7:10 PM
    • 354 Posts
    • 187 Thanks
    Ranger8

    It could be enough to get a few extra weeks, extra months or just to the next pay day or until the car gets traded in.
    Originally posted by motorguy
    Thats all you can ask of life or a car really
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 13th Oct 17, 9:30 AM
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    motorguy
    Thats all you can ask of life or a car really
    Originally posted by Ranger8
    Nah, i prefer a solution to the problem rather than just a proverbial sticking plaster over it.

    Each to their own though.
    You are not special. You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake.
    • BeenThroughItAll
    • By BeenThroughItAll 13th Oct 17, 10:39 AM
    • 4,614 Posts
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    BeenThroughItAll
    The best compromise is to use one of the cleaning products which is introduced directly into the DPF via the pressure sensor hoses or bosses. I have used such 'snake oil' on two vehicles:


    Saab 9-3 1.9TiD; DPF saturation was measured as 67% prior to treatment, and 33% post treatment (using OpCOM)


    Mercedes Sprinter 3.0V6 CDi (our current motorhome, bought in August at 10yo having done only 19K miles). DPF saturation via STAR diagnostics was 58% prior to treatment, 21% post treatment.


    The black !!!!! that emanated from the exhausts on both showed visually that it was doing *something* at least.
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