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  • FIRST POST
    • Revv
    • By Revv 10th Oct 17, 12:59 PM
    • 26Posts
    • 1Thanks
    Revv
    Deposit Protection
    • #1
    • 10th Oct 17, 12:59 PM
    Deposit Protection 10th Oct 17 at 12:59 PM
    Hey Folks,

    I have been renting a flat since 2011 (
    Assured Shorthold Tenancy), and paid a full month of rent as deposit, and lived there for about 6 years.

    When the contract got renewed in 2012, I received a letter in post about my deposit being submitted to DPS (dated Oct 2012). My understanding back back then was that that was a failure by the landlord /letting agent in registering (correct term?) the deposit, but didn't want to start a fight over it as back then we were overall happy with the place.

    This year though we don't want to renew the contract as the landlord has failed to put things right in multiple cases (failed boiler being the primary one) and each time I had to chase every issue many many times.

    Could you guys please shed some light on where I would be standing here legally? Am I correct to assume that the landlord has to return the deposit in full + if taken to court has to compensate up to 3x the deposit? (as they missed the 30 day window by almost a year).

    The contract will come to an end by end of this month and I have already notified them that I will not be renewing.

    How would it best to approach this?

    Thanks in advance!






Page 1
    • aneary
    • By aneary 10th Oct 17, 1:01 PM
    • 819 Posts
    • 704 Thanks
    aneary
    • #2
    • 10th Oct 17, 1:01 PM
    • #2
    • 10th Oct 17, 1:01 PM
    I would see if any deductions are to be made, also how prompt the LL is before taking him to court.
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 10th Oct 17, 1:05 PM
    • 1,322 Posts
    • 1,073 Thanks
    Comms69
    • #3
    • 10th Oct 17, 1:05 PM
    • #3
    • 10th Oct 17, 1:05 PM
    Hey Folks,

    I have been renting a flat since 2011 (
    Assured Shorthold Tenancy), and paid a full month of rent as deposit, and lived there for about 6 years.

    When the contract got renewed in 2012, I received a letter in post about my deposit being submitted to DPS (dated Oct 2012). My understanding back back then was that that was a failure by the landlord /letting agent in registering (correct term?) the deposit, but didn't want to start a fight over it as back then we were overall happy with the place.

    This year though we don't want to renew the contract as the landlord has failed to put things right in multiple cases (failed boiler being the primary one) and each time I had to chase every issue many many times.

    Could you guys please shed some light on where I would be standing here legally? Am I correct to assume that the landlord has to return the deposit in full - only if he intends to evict you. + if taken to court has to compensate up to 3x the deposit? (as they missed the 30 day window by almost a year). - more likely 1x

    The contract will come to an end by end of this month and I have already notified them that I will not be renewing. - so you're moving out or going periodic?

    How would it best to approach this?

    Thanks in advance!






    Originally posted by Revv


    It's a long time ago, which is going to be difficult to prove, and you must to some degree prove your case.


    The deposit was protected in 2012, and has been since. It could well have been in a different scheme in 2011.


    I'd wait and see if you get your deposit back before making any other decisions, which could end up being costly.
    • G_M
    • By G_M 10th Oct 17, 1:14 PM
    • 42,356 Posts
    • 49,213 Thanks
    G_M
    • #4
    • 10th Oct 17, 1:14 PM
    • #4
    • 10th Oct 17, 1:14 PM
    When you say you are not renewing do you mean not signing a new contract but staying, or that you plan to end the tenancy/leave.
    Hey Folks,

    I have been renting a flat since 2011 (
    Assured Shorthold Tenancy), and paid a full month of rent as deposit, and lived there for about 6 years.

    When the contract got renewed in 2012, I received a letter in post about my deposit being submitted to DPS (dated Oct 2012).
    Was this the first time it was registered, or might it have been registered with a different scheme, r perhaps re-registered on renewal?


    My understanding back back then was that that was a failure by the landlord /letting agent in registering (correct term?) the deposit, but didn't want to start a fight over it as back then we were overall happy with the place.
    Depends on the Q above.

    .....

    Could you guys please shed some light on where I would be standing here legally? Am I correct to assume that the landlord has to return the deposit in full
    Not if you have caused damage and/or owe rent


    + if taken to court has to compensate up to 3x the deposit? (as they missed the 30 day window by almost a year).
    If they missed te 30 day window, you can claim the penalty. As the deposit has been registered since 2012, the court is likely to award you the minmum penalty - 1 times the depost.

    .....

    How would it best to approach this?
    Originally posted by Revv
    I would wait and see. If the deposit is returned in full, or with deductions which are fair, then do nothing.

    If not, advise the LL that you are considering taking legal action for the penalty and hope that that incentiveses a fair return of your depost.

    and if that fails, apply for the penalty and hope tha your evidence is sufficient.
    • Revv
    • By Revv 10th Oct 17, 1:18 PM
    • 26 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Revv
    • #5
    • 10th Oct 17, 1:18 PM
    • #5
    • 10th Oct 17, 1:18 PM
    I am leaving the flat, not going periodic.

    It's a long time ago, which is going to be difficult to prove, and you must to some degree prove your case.
    Originally posted by Comms69
    I thought I would have 6 years form when I leave the flat (contract ends) the make a claim? Proving it for me is should be easy enough, the DPS cerificate states when the funds were deposited (2012).

    The deposit was protected in 2012, and has been since. It could well have been in a different scheme in 2011.
    Even if it was protected for the 2011-2012, the failed their responsilibilty to let me know of the details, so they would still be liable. Am I missing something here?

    I'd wait and see if you get your deposit back before making any other decisions, which could end up being costly.
    I agree, but I would like to know where I stand, as I would be really suprised if they didn't want to cover the cost of the a new boiler from my deposit!
    • LEJC
    • By LEJC 10th Oct 17, 1:25 PM
    • 9,041 Posts
    • 59,568 Thanks
    LEJC
    • #6
    • 10th Oct 17, 1:25 PM
    • #6
    • 10th Oct 17, 1:25 PM
    Why do you think the boiler cost would be taken from your deposit...?
    Did you break it?
    frugal October...£41.82 of £40 food shopping spend for the 2 of us!

    2017 toiletries challenge 170 out 144 in ...£18.64 spend
    • saajan_12
    • By saajan_12 10th Oct 17, 1:26 PM
    • 1,010 Posts
    • 678 Thanks
    saajan_12
    • #7
    • 10th Oct 17, 1:26 PM
    • #7
    • 10th Oct 17, 1:26 PM
    If the deposit was NOT protected for the first year, then you can claim the penalty of 1-3x deposit. As it was subsequently protected, this would likely be the minimum 1x deposit.

    Note the deposit could have been protected in time in the first year and reregistered on renewal or if the LL chose to.

    Either way, this doesn't affect any claim for damages / deductions due to breaches of the tenancy agreement. You're still liable for those, which can be deducted from the deposit or the LL can sue if they exceed the deposit.

    It might be more beneficial for you to wait and see if you can use this in the negotiation re notice or deposit deductions when you leave. e.g. you won't claim penalty if they let you leave on a more convenient date than the end of a period, or if they let any deductions go.
    • Revv
    • By Revv 10th Oct 17, 1:27 PM
    • 26 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Revv
    • #8
    • 10th Oct 17, 1:27 PM
    • #8
    • 10th Oct 17, 1:27 PM
    Why do you think the boiler cost would be taken from your deposit...?
    Did you break it?
    Originally posted by LEJC
    No I did not break anything. It just needs to be replaced (IMHO) and I wouldn't be surprised if the landlord would "try" and cover some of his costs from my deposit.

    For all intents and purposes I think we have taken very good care of the property.
    • Revv
    • By Revv 10th Oct 17, 1:34 PM
    • 26 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Revv
    • #9
    • 10th Oct 17, 1:34 PM
    • #9
    • 10th Oct 17, 1:34 PM
    Was this the first time it was registered, or might it have been registered with a different scheme, r perhaps re-registered on renewal?
    Originally posted by G_M
    I think 2012 the first time they had registered. Even if they had registered they failed to provide the details which makes them equally liable?
    • LEJC
    • By LEJC 10th Oct 17, 1:37 PM
    • 9,041 Posts
    • 59,568 Thanks
    LEJC
    Do you have an inventory?

    You perhaps are mixing 2 things here ....the lodging of your deposit and deductions on check out.

    The deductions on check out need to be fair and are usually agreed following check out using reference to your check in inventory....minus wear and tear.....
    frugal October...£41.82 of £40 food shopping spend for the 2 of us!

    2017 toiletries challenge 170 out 144 in ...£18.64 spend
    • Revv
    • By Revv 10th Oct 17, 1:39 PM
    • 26 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Revv
    If the deposit was NOT protected for the first year, then you can claim the penalty of 1-3x deposit. As it was subsequently protected, this would likely be the minimum 1x deposit.

    Note the deposit could have been protected in time in the first year and reregistered on renewal or if the LL chose to.

    Either way, this doesn't affect any claim for damages / deductions due to breaches of the tenancy agreement. You're still liable for those, which can be deducted from the deposit or the LL can sue if they exceed the deposit.

    It might be more beneficial for you to wait and see if you can use this in the negotiation re notice or deposit deductions when you leave. e.g. you won't claim penalty if they let you leave on a more convenient date than the end of a period, or if they let any deductions go.
    Originally posted by saajan_12
    Agree, that's what I was planning to do, but wasn't sure if I need to send them as a letter beforehand?
    • pinkshoes
    • By pinkshoes 10th Oct 17, 1:40 PM
    • 15,393 Posts
    • 21,016 Thanks
    pinkshoes
    I would just wait and see what happens first.

    If they refund full deposit or minus fair deductions, then I would leave it at that.

    The court CAN issue a fine of 3x the deposit, but more than often just ask for the return of full deposit. If the LL has already refunded this, then no point taking it to court.

    If the LL does start wanting large deductions, I would ask him to send you evidence showing your deposit was protected from when you first moved in on <date>, and if he can't, then ask for deposit returned in full, otherwise you will take him to court for 3x the amount.
    Should've = Should HAVE (not 'of')
    Would've = Would HAVE (not 'of')

    No, I am not perfect, but yes I do judge people on their use of basic English language. If you didn't know the above, then learn it! (If English is your second language, then you are forgiven!)
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 10th Oct 17, 1:41 PM
    • 1,322 Posts
    • 1,073 Thanks
    Comms69
    I am leaving the flat, not going periodic.



    I thought I would have 6 years form when I leave the flat (contract ends) the make a claim? - correct Proving it for me is should be easy enough, the DPS cerificate states when the funds were deposited (2012). - BUT there's 3 schemes, and you would need to have some evidence, to a degree, that the deposit wasn't in a different scheme in 2011.

    Even if it was protected for the 2011-2012, the failed their responsilibilty to let me know of the details, so they would still be liable. Am I missing something here? - Because it's 6 years ago and you may have forgotten? Certainly my argument would be, as a LL, that it was supplied at the time.

    I agree, but I would like to know where I stand, as I would be really suprised if they didn't want to cover the cost of the a new boiler from my deposit!
    Originally posted by Revv


    Well that's totally separate issue. If you broke the boiler, they would be perfectly entitled to do just that
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 10th Oct 17, 1:43 PM
    • 1,322 Posts
    • 1,073 Thanks
    Comms69
    I would just wait and see what happens first.

    If they refund full deposit or minus fair deductions, then I would leave it at that.

    The court CAN issue a fine of 3x the deposit, but more than often just ask for the return of full deposit. If the LL has already refunded this, then no point taking it to court. - That's totally wrong

    If the LL does start wanting large deductions, I would ask him to send you evidence showing your deposit was protected from when you first moved in on <date>, and if he can't, then ask for deposit returned in full, otherwise you will take him to court for 3x the amount.
    Originally posted by pinkshoes


    the 'fine' is 1x-3x, that is absolutely nothing to do with the original deposit.
    • Revv
    • By Revv 10th Oct 17, 1:53 PM
    • 26 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Revv
    Do you have an inventory?

    You perhaps are mixing 2 things here ....the lodging of your deposit and deductions on check out.

    The deductions on check out need to be fair and are usually agreed following check out using reference to your check in inventory....minus wear and tear.....
    Originally posted by LEJC
    I am not mixing them up. There is an inventory and I am aware of the wear and tear thing, and that if I have casued damages it will be covered from my deposit.

    That being said, the landlord has "tried"to pass service charges on me becasue it was only reasonable that I paid them! (contrary to the contract which clearly stated that the ladlord is to cover service charges)

    I haven't done anything to the boiler. The landlord kept trying to fix a dead boiler at the expense of my convenience (didn't have hot water for the Xmas time for around 40 days!). But I guess he will try to use my deposit nevertheless.
    • LEJC
    • By LEJC 10th Oct 17, 1:55 PM
    • 9,041 Posts
    • 59,568 Thanks
    LEJC
    I am not mixing them up. There is an inventory and I am aware of the wear and tear thing, and that if I have casued damages it will be covered from my deposit.

    That being said, the landlord has "tried"to pass service charges on me becasue it was only reasonable that I paid them! (contrary to the contract which clearly stated that the ladlord is to cover service charges)

    I haven't done anything to the boiler. The landlord kept trying to fix a dead boiler at the expense of my convenience (didn't have hot water for the Xmas time for around 40 days!). But I guess he will try to use my deposit nevertheless.
    Originally posted by Revv
    You are surmising too much at this stage
    OK.....But do you have a check in inventory?
    frugal October...£41.82 of £40 food shopping spend for the 2 of us!

    2017 toiletries challenge 170 out 144 in ...£18.64 spend
    • Revv
    • By Revv 10th Oct 17, 2:01 PM
    • 26 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Revv
    I thought I would have 6 years form when I leave the flat (contract ends) the make a claim? - correct Proving it for me is should be easy enough, the DPS cerificate states when the funds were deposited (2012). - BUT there's 3 schemes, and you would need to have some evidence, to a degree, that the deposit wasn't in a different scheme in 2011.

    Even if it was protected for the 2011-2012, the failed their responsilibilty to let me know of the details, so they would still be liable. Am I missing something here? - Because it's 6 years ago and you may have forgotten? Certainly my argument would be, as a LL, that it was supplied at the time.
    Originally posted by Comms69
    Well, isn't the onus on the landlord to prove that they have 1) deposited it withing 30 days and 2) provided all necessary info to me.

    I very much doubt that I have received such document and lost it or forgot about it. Also why would they change the deposit schema at renewal? Why just not leave it there?
    • Revv
    • By Revv 10th Oct 17, 2:03 PM
    • 26 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Revv
    You are surmising too much at this stage
    OK.....But do you have a check in inventory?
    Originally posted by LEJC
    Yes I do
    And there's been just wear and tear, nothing more (happy to cover reasonable costs if they are casued by us)
    Last edited by Revv; 10-10-2017 at 2:03 PM. Reason: typos
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 10th Oct 17, 2:11 PM
    • 1,322 Posts
    • 1,073 Thanks
    Comms69
    Well, isn't the onus on the landlord to prove that they have 1) deposited it withing 30 days and 2) provided all necessary info to me. - Not strictly no. You are taking the case to court. You must prove certain elements.

    I very much doubt that I have received such document and lost it or forgot about it. Also why would they change the deposit schema at renewal? Why just not leave it there?
    Originally posted by Revv


    As for reasons to change:


    Custodial scheme doesn't cost anything
    Insurance scheme allows the LL a greater element of control


    perhaps they chose one over the other?
    • LEJC
    • By LEJC 10th Oct 17, 2:13 PM
    • 9,041 Posts
    • 59,568 Thanks
    LEJC
    Yes I do
    And there's been just wear and tear, nothing more (happy to cover reasonable costs if they are caused by us)
    Originally posted by Revv
    Then work to that document for your check out.....IF the LL decides deductions that do not meet the wear and tear guidelines then you are able to challenge the deductions with the deposit agency.

    Take plenty of photos on your check out as if you do end up in dispute you will hopefully have photographic evidence.

    You simply can't be charged for a boiler unless you broke it...but I do still think you are clouding your responses a little by bringing in issues that do not directly have an effect on the return of your deposit.
    I guess you want to paint a picture of you having an uncaring LL which may or may not be true however whether your water was off over christmas or not is not now something that you can bring up in defence...you should have tackled the issue at the time ...the moral is you must not assume or try to second guess the LL.
    Stick to the facts.
    frugal October...£41.82 of £40 food shopping spend for the 2 of us!

    2017 toiletries challenge 170 out 144 in ...£18.64 spend
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