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  • FIRST POST
    • Jones254
    • By Jones254 9th Oct 17, 11:21 PM
    • 1Posts
    • 1Thanks
    Jones254
    Cohabiting
    • #1
    • 9th Oct 17, 11:21 PM
    Cohabiting 9th Oct 17 at 11:21 PM
    Hello guys, just wanting some other people's opinions on this situation...

    I am a home owner and have been for 5 years. My boyfriend (4 years) moved in at the beginning of the year and we agreed that he would pay £250 rent to contribute to bills etc which was a lot cheaper than what he previously paid when he rented a flat.

    In total my monthly outgoings are just under 700 a month (bills, mortgage, insurances etc) on top of this I pay for all house maintenance, repair, renovation, household items (all appliances, furniture and furnishings)etc (the home is being fully renovated) my boyfriend will not assist with any of this even if something breaks he will leave it. I also recently had all of the doors replaced and he has not assisted with the painting of these doors leaving it all to me in very black and white terms saying he is just a lodger and the landlord would do all this if he was in a private rented place.

    I had a smart meter fitted recently and my boyfriend is questioning me about bills, he is saying he thinks it's unfair that he has to pay me 250 a month as his calculation and how often he uses things do not equate to this amount and he says he should pay 150 instead and he does not think it is right that I make money from him. I have explained to him that the smart meter shows actual usage but I pay a monthly flat rate as per contact and that there are the rent fees also with gas and electric but he thinks I'm lying.

    It making me sad but also confused, he is mentioning this often but In my opinion 250 was fair considering I sort out everything and he does nothing. It was also an agreement made prior to him moving in.

    I have also let him have an entire room for himself only as he likes his own space and let him have the shed as he wanted to store a lot of things (it's now full so I cannot store anything in it)

    In terms of income we have exactly the same wage as we have the same job!

    We also pay personal bills separate such as our car insurance etc.

    Am i missing something here? What do other people do?
Page 2
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 10th Oct 17, 1:15 PM
    • 448 Posts
    • 310 Thanks
    Comms69
    You need to decide of he os a lodger or a boyfriend and treat him accordingly.

    Find out what lodgers pay locally and charge him that , plus extra for use of the shed and stop any 'benefits'.
    Originally posted by sheramber
    again that wont work....


    Cake and eat it.


    Either charge half the bills and nothing else.
    OR accept he will gain some interest in the property.
    • Mojisola
    • By Mojisola 10th Oct 17, 1:19 PM
    • 28,339 Posts
    • 72,105 Thanks
    Mojisola
    You need to decide if he is a lodger or a boyfriend and treat him accordingly.

    Find out what lodgers pay locally and charge him that , plus extra for use of the shed and stop any 'benefits'.
    Originally posted by sheramber
    again that wont work....

    Cake and eat it.

    Either charge half the bills and nothing else.
    OR accept he will gain some interest in the property.
    Originally posted by Comms69
    Why not?

    If he stops being a BF and becomes a lodger, he can't gain any interest in the property - although it would be very difficult to adjust to the change from partner to LL/lodger.
    • pollyanna24
    • By pollyanna24 10th Oct 17, 1:20 PM
    • 3,677 Posts
    • 4,371 Thanks
    pollyanna24
    Even if she does just charge him half bills, it still means he gets to live rent free.

    I think what I would do is ask him to leave and rent somewhere, but you can still see each other. Just don't live with each other.

    And then, seeing as you do have a spare room, rent that out for the going rate.
    Pink Sproglettes born 2008 and 2010
    House Worth (approx) - £400,000
    Mortgages (2nd July 2017) - £183,377.40
    Equity - £216,522.60
    • alex_163163
    • By alex_163163 10th Oct 17, 1:27 PM
    • 188 Posts
    • 115 Thanks
    alex_163163
    So, in my opinion he is out of order! Complaining about paying £250 per month for somewhere to live! Like other users have said he will not find anything else for that price, so he should realise how good he has it.
    You asked what other people do - so my boyfriend moved in with me, into a property I owned. We decided that he would pay 50% of the monthly bills for utilities he would use - council tax, food, water, gas & electric, tv licence, contents insurance, internet etc. At the end of every month I worked out the total and he transferred it to me. I never wanted a contribution to the mortgage, ground rent, service charge etc - I decided to buy the place on my own and could manage the costs as a single person so was happy to do so.
    HOWEVER, he did help me round the house, although the flat didn't need any work doing to refurb it. . He would put things up on the walls, try help if something was broken etc (but if a large appliance had needed replacing, I think I would have covered this cost myself tbh - it didn't happen so I don't know for certain).

    However, if you took on a house that you knew needed total refurbishment before you met your boyfriend, I can see his reasoning for not wanting to contribute financially as you made the decision and commitment to do this. Yes, he decided to move in with you, but if he had had input at the buying stage he might have wanted something finished already. However, not to help you painting doors etc over a weekend or 2, is just petty!
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 10th Oct 17, 1:46 PM
    • 448 Posts
    • 310 Thanks
    Comms69
    Why not?

    If he stops being a BF and becomes a lodger, he can't gain any interest in the property - although it would be very difficult to adjust to the change from partner to LL/lodger.
    Originally posted by Mojisola


    Indeed, and a court is unlikely to accept that's actually what happened.
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 10th Oct 17, 1:47 PM
    • 448 Posts
    • 310 Thanks
    Comms69
    Even if she does just charge him half bills, it still means he gets to live rent free. - Yes it does. That's the point. Why does that actually matter? So someone is getting something for 'free', so what?

    I think what I would do is ask him to leave and rent somewhere, but you can still see each other. Just don't live with each other.

    And then, seeing as you do have a spare room, rent that out for the going rate.
    Originally posted by pollyanna24
    I don't understand this, that's not fair, attitude.
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 10th Oct 17, 1:50 PM
    • 448 Posts
    • 310 Thanks
    Comms69
    So, in my opinion he is out of order! Complaining about paying £250 per month for somewhere to live! Like other users have said he will not find anything else for that price, so he should realise how good he has it.
    You asked what other people do - so my boyfriend moved in with me, into a property I owned. We decided that he would pay 50% of the monthly bills for utilities he would use - council tax, food, water, gas & electric, tv licence, contents insurance, internet etc. At the end of every month I worked out the total and he transferred it to me. I never wanted a contribution to the mortgage, ground rent, service charge etc - I decided to buy the place on my own and could manage the costs as a single person so was happy to do so.
    HOWEVER, he did help me round the house, although the flat didn't need any work doing to refurb it. . He would put things up on the walls, try help if something was broken etc (but if a large appliance had needed replacing, I think I would have covered this cost myself tbh - it didn't happen so I don't know for certain).

    However, if you took on a house that you knew needed total refurbishment before you met your boyfriend, I can see his reasoning for not wanting to contribute financially as you made the decision and commitment to do this. Yes, he decided to move in with you, but if he had had input at the buying stage he might have wanted something finished already. However, not to help you painting doors etc over a weekend or 2, is just petty!
    Originally posted by alex_163163


    Equally - for all we know the GF treats him in a way that doesn't consider his opinion.


    So didn't consult on colour choices, materials, etc. Just simply said we're painting it like this, today.


    In which case it's very much 'her' house, and I would also feel a bit put out.
    • mattpaint
    • By mattpaint 10th Oct 17, 7:05 PM
    • 31 Posts
    • 56 Thanks
    mattpaint
    The dichotomy remains, one can charge a "lodger" more than the cost of bills, but if they become a "partner" and get the additional benefit of sex with the landlord / landlady, they also get a potential beneficial interest in the property, because something.

    No, it doesn't make sense to me either, but it gets trotted out here a lot.
    Originally posted by onomatopoeia99
    It's quite simple - a lodger has a room of their own to sleep in and is a formalised legal arrangement.
    • PasturesNew
    • By PasturesNew 10th Oct 17, 7:17 PM
    • 60,251 Posts
    • 351,987 Thanks
    PasturesNew
    Sounds like he needs his bags packing. He's only there for his own convenience - and as soon as he thinks he can spot a better deal he'll be sniffing elsewhere for a foot in somebody else's well appointed door!
    • leslieknope
    • By leslieknope 10th Oct 17, 7:37 PM
    • 289 Posts
    • 382 Thanks
    leslieknope
    i can easily see council tax, gas, electric, tv coming to £250 a month so he needs a swift slap around the head and his bags on the door if he wants to continue with that attitude. does he pay for food too or is that included in the price?
    CCCC #33: £42/£240
    DFW: £4355/£4405
    • maisie cat
    • By maisie cat 10th Oct 17, 7:42 PM
    • 240 Posts
    • 281 Thanks
    maisie cat
    I'd kick him into touch, he sounds like a sulky teenager.
    • TBagpuss
    • By TBagpuss 10th Oct 17, 8:42 PM
    • 5,945 Posts
    • 7,694 Thanks
    TBagpuss
    again that wont work....


    Cake and eat it.


    Either charge half the bills and nothing else.
    OR accept he will gain some interest in the property.
    Originally posted by Comms69
    Not true. He doesn't get any interest in the property unless he can satisfy a court that he made contributions And there was a joint intention that he would acquire an interest
    Such a joint intention can be inferred but is not automatic.

    OP, You are not being unreasonable at all. It sounds as though he expects to, in effect, live rent free

    I'd suggest that you try to sit down and discuss this with him, but before you do, decide what you want from the conversation. What is your bottom line?
    Consider asking him to explain why he feels that it is fair for him to pay no more than a contribution to the bills? Why does he feel he should live rent free? What he seems to be saying is that him being there shouldn't save you any money (because he only wants to pay half the bills, and nothing at all for the actual accommodation, but that it is not OK for you to expect to save any money.
    If he is not prepared to see your perspective, do you want to continue to live with him?

    I would not get into a big debate about the exact breakdown of the bills. It's actually fine for you to say "I feel that £xx is a fair amount. It's much cheaper for you than if you were renting or lodging elsewhere, and it means I save a little"

    I think in your position I would be suggesting that he move out, the to of you an date if you want to, but keep your finances separate and (if necessary) try to get a lodger to help meet your outgoings.

    If you want to stay living together, then think about whether you are willing to put up with this attitude long term, because it is very unlikely that he will change, unless you push it.
    • Poor_Single_lady
    • By Poor_Single_lady 10th Oct 17, 11:24 PM
    • 1,045 Posts
    • 3,914 Thanks
    Poor_Single_lady
    He sounds awful.
    Just my opinion but I feel like the right man for you would treat you better than this.
    2017- 5 credit cards plus loan
    Overdraft And 1 credit card paid off.

    2018 plans - reduce debt
    • FBaby
    • By FBaby 11th Oct 17, 6:04 AM
    • 15,939 Posts
    • 39,730 Thanks
    FBaby
    You need to separate legal and emotional matter. Legally, you've clearly made arrangements so that he could have no right to your property. That's fine, it's your right and he's accepted it.

    However, it seems that emotionally, you want him to act more like someone who would have ownership of the place.

    I totally agree with him. If you want to make sure that he gets nothing out of your investment, then it is only fair that he treats the place like he would treat a home that he is renting, therefore fair that he should be paying half of the bills exactly and nothing more.

    I have explained to him that the smart meter shows actual usage but I pay a monthly flat rate as per contact and that there are the rent fees also with gas and electric but he thinks I'm lying.
    That doesn't make sense to me. Surely you're not paying much more than what you are using, otherwise, you need to reconsider your deal.

    It is only fair that if he believes he is paying more than 1/2 of these bills, you show him that it is not the case.

    To be honest, I suspect the reason why he is doing all this is because deep inside he resents the fact that you are not prepared to fully commit to the relationship. It's been 12 months and he is probably thinking it's time to move to the next stage.

    I've been in his shoes and you do get to the point when you start questioning whether the person you are sharing your life is really loving you and committed or whether they are just making the best of the situation by having a companion that is helping paying the bills.

    You've been together 4 years, have you discuss your plans for the future?
    • spirit
    • By spirit 11th Oct 17, 8:10 AM
    • 2,594 Posts
    • 5,616 Thanks
    spirit
    [QUOTE=TBagpuss;73244169]

    I would not get into a big debate about the exact breakdown of the bills. It's actually fine for you to say "I feel that £xx is a fair amount. It's much cheaper for you than if you were renting or lodging elsewhere, and it means I save a little"

    QUOTE]



    But does she? when she was a sole occupant she would have claimed 25% discount on CT for single occupancy.
    Mortgage free as of 10/02/2015. Every brick and blade of grass belongs to meeeee.
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 11th Oct 17, 9:53 AM
    • 448 Posts
    • 310 Thanks
    Comms69
    i can easily see council tax, gas, electric, tv coming to £250 a month so he needs a swift slap around the head and his bags on the door if he wants to continue with that attitude. does he pay for food too or is that included in the price?
    Originally posted by leslieknope


    Yes probably, so he owes £125 in that case..... she still needs to pay her share too....
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 11th Oct 17, 9:55 AM
    • 448 Posts
    • 310 Thanks
    Comms69
    Not true. He doesn't get any interest in the property unless he can satisfy a court that he made contributions And there was a joint intention that he would acquire an interest
    Such a joint intention can be inferred but is not automatic. - indeed, but many courts have accepted that by paying the mortgage the intention was there.

    OP, You are not being unreasonable at all. It sounds as though he expects to, in effect, live rent free

    I'd suggest that you try to sit down and discuss this with him, but before you do, decide what you want from the conversation. What is your bottom line?
    Consider asking him to explain why he feels that it is fair for him to pay no more than a contribution to the bills? Why does he feel he should live rent free? What he seems to be saying is that him being there shouldn't save you any money (because he only wants to pay half the bills, and nothing at all for the actual accommodation, but that it is not OK for you to expect to save any money.
    If he is not prepared to see your perspective, do you want to continue to live with him?

    I would not get into a big debate about the exact breakdown of the bills. It's actually fine for you to say "I feel that £xx is a fair amount. It's much cheaper for you than if you were renting or lodging elsewhere, and it means I save a little"

    I think in your position I would be suggesting that he move out, the to of you an date if you want to, but keep your finances separate and (if necessary) try to get a lodger to help meet your outgoings.

    If you want to stay living together, then think about whether you are willing to put up with this attitude long term, because it is very unlikely that he will change, unless you push it.
    Originally posted by TBagpuss


    the most common solution in such cases is for the person moving in to save up a set amount each month. That way if things progress they can buy into the property.
    • bugslet
    • By bugslet 11th Oct 17, 10:10 AM
    • 5,540 Posts
    • 27,425 Thanks
    bugslet
    hmmm i think taking everything into account ....

    Put the lodger fee's up to a more realistic £350 and tell him you will no longer be partaking in any activities a normal landlord wouldn't if he was renting a place.

    Then look for a new boyfriend.
    Originally posted by Mr.Generous
    Spluttered my drink onto my keyboard

    FWIW, I was not married to Mr Bugs, he left me ( albeit temporarily) for some loose knickered trollop and he was duly ejected from my house.

    I discussed with my solicitor what he was due from the house. The solicitor was very clear, that he might get 10k if he wanted to get court, but he might not.

    It had been my house for a few years at that point and there were no formal arrangements regarding paying, but it basically split along the lines of my paying the mortgage and food, he paid utilities, I paid most household things, though he would chip in here and there.
    • leslieknope
    • By leslieknope 11th Oct 17, 1:15 PM
    • 289 Posts
    • 382 Thanks
    leslieknope
    Yes probably, so he owes £125 in that case..... she still needs to pay her share too....
    Originally posted by Comms69
    if you take the national average for all of those bills, i totaled it up to £315 (if we're including contents insurance which he would have to pay no matter where he lived). add in an extra... what? 150-200 a month for groceries for the two of them? plus lets throw an extra £45 a month for him for the storage he's renting for the shed. that's one of the cheapest quotes for a very small storage unit in my area and i assume the shed is much bigger but i'm being generous. so we're up to £257.50 for the bills plus £45 for his storage. so he owes another £52.50 a month.
    CCCC #33: £42/£240
    DFW: £4355/£4405
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 11th Oct 17, 1:19 PM
    • 448 Posts
    • 310 Thanks
    Comms69
    if you take the national average for all of those bills, i totaled it up to £315 (if we're including contents insurance which he would have to pay no matter where he lived). add in an extra... what? 150-200 a month for groceries for the two of them? plus lets throw an extra £45 a month for him for the storage he's renting for the shed. that's one of the cheapest quotes for a very small storage unit in my area and i assume the shed is much bigger but i'm being generous. so we're up to £257.50 for the bills plus £45 for his storage. so he owes another £52.50 a month.
    Originally posted by leslieknope


    £315 - yep fine with me
    £200 - bit high, but sure
    £45 - storage - no, they're living as one household.


    So he owes £7.50
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