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  • FIRST POST
    • Berko_lad
    • By Berko_lad 9th Oct 17, 11:09 AM
    • 18Posts
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    Berko_lad
    UKPM - County Court Business Centre letter
    • #1
    • 9th Oct 17, 11:09 AM
    UKPM - County Court Business Centre letter 9th Oct 17 at 11:09 AM
    My wife has received a claim form from Gladstones via the CCBC in Northants claiming £247.59 for a supposed parking offence in September last year.

    This is the first we have heard of this matter which states that the car (which was not being driven by my wife) was illegally parked on land in Watford. Where it was actually parked was in a visitor bay at a block of apartments.

    Obviously I want to contest this and have acknowledged receipt online to buy myself a bit of time but how best to go about it? I have no evidence nor proof to support my case but assume that they have photographic evidence to support any supposed offence.

    Should I initially contact them and ask for proof? Or should I simply claim that whilst the keeper, the car was not being driven by my wife and we have no way of identifying who was actually responsible (and it wasn't me).
Page 2
    • Berko_lad
    • By Berko_lad 10th Oct 17, 3:48 PM
    • 18 Posts
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    Berko_lad
    Am on it. Will do and thanks.
    • safarmuk
    • By safarmuk 13th Oct 17, 4:56 PM
    • 613 Posts
    • 1,126 Thanks
    safarmuk
    So with a bit of investigation it appears the landowner for the site you refer to above is "Proxima GR Properties Ltd".

    Further investigation reveals this is one of a number of limited companies with the same directors and registered office. Each company appears to hold real estate (mostly blocks of flats or commercial building) assets.

    All these companies also share the same registered address with another limited company called Estates & Management. As per "DanielSans" thread Estates and Management are the company who represent the landowner to the lessees (e.g. the person whom your friend rented their property from) collecting ground rent and so on.

    This is one avenue for you to pursue now - contacting the freeholder or the company that represents them and explaining you were a genuine visitor to a tenant in a flat (you will need the tenancy agreement and a letter from the tenant for proof) and without any further notice you have suddenly received a court claim for £247.59 for doing nothing wrong at all (and certainly nothing you were not allowed to do as a visitor of a tenant). You might like to ask them if they have even authorised a third party to take legal action on their behalf or even if they have a contract with the PPC (probably more likely via a Management Agent)? If you can get the landlord to help, even better.

    Let us know what you have found out.
    • safarmuk
    • By safarmuk 24th Oct 17, 10:39 PM
    • 613 Posts
    • 1,126 Thanks
    safarmuk
    @berko_lad ... if you are still on the forum, get in touch. I now have contact details (email) and a phone number for you to contact the freeholder about this. Can't post them here as the moderators don't like us posting peoples email addresses so once you make contact I will get them to you via a mutually acceptable method. This is an avenue for you to get this stopped potentially

    On another note, how is your defence going? You don't have an indefinite amount of time to craft it.
    • Berko_lad
    • By Berko_lad 28th Nov 17, 3:05 PM
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    Berko_lad
    An update on our case.

    Despite offering to settle the original parking fee on account of havng no knowledge of this matter and having never been sent any 'proof' of the offence until we requested it, Gladstones are now insisting on going the court route and have sent us a copy of their N180 Directions Questionnaire via email. I'm assuming from reading the various threads that we will be receiving our copy to respond any day now.

    The text of their email is as follows:

    ]UK Car Park Management Limited
    -v-
    Miss XXXX XXXXXX

    We act for the Claimant and have notified the Court of our Client!!!8217;s intention to proceed with the claim.

    Please find attached a copy of our Client!!!8217;s completed Directions Questionnaire, which will be filed with the court upon their request. You will note we intend to request a special direction that the case be dealt with on the papers and without the need for an oral hearing

    This request is sought simply because the matter is in our Client!!!8217;s opinion relatively straightforward and the costs incurred by both parties for attending an oral hearing would be disproportionate.

    You will note our Client has elected not to mediate. Its decision is not meant to be in any way obstructive and is based purely on experience, as mediation has rarely proven beneficial in these types of cases. Notwithstanding this, our Client would be happy to listen to any genuine payment proposals that you wish to put forward.

    Yours sincerely

    ***
    Litigation Assistant


    My intention is to go to court with this matter however, given that they have included a 'payment proposal' offer in this email, is it worth repeating my offer to pay the original fee?
    Last edited by Berko_lad; 12-02-2018 at 8:50 PM. Reason: name removal
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 28th Nov 17, 3:28 PM
    • 6,941 Posts
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    beamerguy
    Berko_lad

    Please delete the defendents name above or mark
    it XXX

    This is now a typical Gladstones wheeze, they don't want to
    go to court because they will probably get whooped
    in court yet again.

    They are trying to give you the impression that they
    will win ...... Gladstones are very bad solicitors and
    UKCPM know that already, they have been subjected
    to the incompetence of Gladstones

    SAY NO TO PAPERS .... You want it heard in front
    of a judge.

    Two things will happen, Gladstones will discontinue
    or they will brace themselves for another whooping in court
    Last edited by beamerguy; 28-11-2017 at 3:36 PM.
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • Berko_lad
    • By Berko_lad 12th Feb 18, 8:08 PM
    • 18 Posts
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    Berko_lad
    Latest update.

    Having been unable to obtain a response from the friend mentioned above, I contacted Gladstone's and informed then that since I only learned of this offence some months after it occurred and was therefore not afforded the 28 day grace period, I am only willing to pay the discounted fee rather than the full amount they are now claiming (£247). They refused to accept this and as I refused to accept the judgment, I now have a court date of 24 April.

    I obviously have to submit a defence in advance so would welcome any advice on how best to construct this.
    Last edited by Berko_lad; 12-02-2018 at 8:10 PM. Reason: additional information.
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 12th Feb 18, 8:23 PM
    • 1,692 Posts
    • 1,906 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    Haven!!!8217;t you already filed a defence?

    Have you read and reread newbies thread, post 2, all about small claims?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 12th Feb 18, 8:36 PM
    • 53,987 Posts
    • 67,662 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Latest update.

    Having been unable to obtain a response from the friend mentioned above, I contacted Gladstone's and informed then that since I only learned of this offence some months after it occurred and was therefore not afforded the 28 day grace period, I am only willing to pay the discounted fee rather than the full amount they are now claiming (£247). They refused to accept this and as I refused to accept the judgment, I now have a court date of 24 April.

    I obviously have to submit a defence in advance so would welcome any advice on how best to construct this.
    Originally posted by Berko_lad
    You contacted Gladstones - why? What were you expecting?

    Waste of time!

    So you have a court date, and you will have seen from that letter, the date by which you must serve to the court and claimant's solicitors, your Witness Statement and all evidence.

    Just as the NEWBIES thread tells you, WS and evidence is the next stage, so look at the examples and show us your WS an evidence, numbered and organised so the Judge and you can follow it on the day.

    There is no stage in the FAQS that says:

    'Next step: pointlessly email or ring up Gladstones and beg them, showing you are scared of court...'.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 12th Feb 18, 8:38 PM
    • 5,647 Posts
    • 4,343 Thanks
    KeithP
    Surely it is Tina who is the defendant?
    Is she still abroad?

    Two and a half months ago it was suggested you remove the defendant's name from post #24.

    This now becomes more important now that a court case is looming.

    The parking companies trawl forums like this waiting for people to trip themselves up, and if they can relate a thread to a particular claim their job is much easier.

    Please re-read the first line of post #25.

    Can we see the defence that you have filed?
    You must've filed one otherwise you wouldn't have a court date.
    Last edited by KeithP; 12-02-2018 at 8:46 PM.
    .
    • Berko_lad
    • By Berko_lad 12th Feb 18, 9:03 PM
    • 18 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Berko_lad
    Sorry, #25 now amended. Tina is my wife. It was her car but was being driven by a third party who has not been identified to the court. I am acting on behalf of my wife due to ongoing health issues.

    I have not filed a defence thus far. I merely replied to the judgment stating that I would not accept it based on the fact that we only discovered this offence over a year after it took place due to the non-arrival of letters and as a consequence, since the person being visited was now living out of the country and was out of contact. we had been afforded no opportunity to construct a defence at the time or to settle at the reduced rate (within 28 days). I then requested that the case be held in front of a judge as per the advice offered above so that I could put this forward.

    I also informed Gladstone's that to avoid any further time being wasted on this matter, I was more than happy to pay this reduced rate but this was obviously not acceptable.
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 12th Feb 18, 9:09 PM
    • 5,647 Posts
    • 4,343 Thanks
    KeithP
    I have not filed a defence thus far. I merely replied to the judgment stating that I would not accept it...
    Originally posted by Berko_lad
    I'm struggling with this.

    "Judgment"? What judgment?

    Let's go back a bit.

    You received a claim form from Northampton CCBC.
    Did you respond to that in any way?

    I cannot understand how you can get a hearing date without having filed a defence.
    .
    • Berko_lad
    • By Berko_lad 12th Feb 18, 9:21 PM
    • 18 Posts
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    Berko_lad
    My apologies... I confused myself (not difficult as I have another ongoing court case which involves a mountain of paper)! This is the defence filed:


    I am XXX XXXXXX and was the registered keeper of the vehicle in question at the time of the alleged incident. This vehicle has now been sold. Due to ongoing ill health, I would not however, have been the driver at the time of the alleged incident.

    I deny liability for the entirety of the claim based on the following:

    (1) The claimant has not provided enough details in the particulars of claim to enable the defendant to file a full defence. The full details of the contract which it is alleged was broken have not been provided. Photographs provided clearly show that the vehicle is parked in a visitors bay.

    1. The Claimant has disclosed no cause of action to give rise to any debt.
    2. The Claimant has stated that ‘parking charges’ were incurred.
    3. The Claimant has given no indication of the nature of the alleged charge in the Particulars of Claim. The Claimant has therefore disclosed no cause of action.
    4. The Particulars of Claim contains no details and fails to establish a cause of action which would enable the Defendant to prepare a specific defence.

    The particulars of claim just states ‘parking charges’ which does not give any indication of on what basis of the claim is founded upon. There is no detail around why the charge arose, what the original charge was, what the alleged contract was and the defendant cannot see how this could be considered a fair exchange of information. Due to this the defendant does not consider the particulars of claim to be valid, therefore the defendant invites the court to strike out the claim as the Claimant has no basis for success.

    Furthermore, a recent example of case law highlights Gladstones use of ‘roboclaim’ particulars. On the 20/09/16 another relevant poorly pleaded private parking charge claim by Gladstones was struck out by District Judge Cross of St Albans County Court without a hearing due to their ‘roboclaim’ particulars being incoherent and failing to comply with CPR. 16.4 and ‘providing no facts that could give rise to any apparent claim in law.’

    (2). The identity of the driver of the vehicle on the date in question has not been ascertained.

    1. The claimant did not identify the driver.
    2. The defendant has no liability, as they are/were the Keeper of the vehicle and the claimant must rely upon the strict provisions of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 in order to hold the defendant responsible for the driver’s alleged breach.
    3. The defendant received no letters relating to this matter prior to the receipt of the County Court Business Centre Claim Form (N1SDT) which was received on 06/10/2017. As a consequence, the 28 day period for early payment as outlined in said documents was not available to the defendant.

    (3) The claimant has not complied with the pre-court protocol and have acted unreasonably.
    1. No Letter Before Claim was received by the defendant. These were subsequently requested by the defendent following receipt of the Claim Form however, this again highlights the fact that the 28 day period for early payment was not available to the defendant.

    (4)
    The driver did not enter into any 'agreement on the charge', no consideration flowed between the parties and no contract was established. The driver would not have agreed to pay the original demand of £100.00 to agree to the alleged contract had the terms and conditions of the contract been properly displayed and accessible.

    I believe the facts stated in this defence are true.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 12th Feb 18, 10:29 PM
    • 53,987 Posts
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    Coupon-mad
    OK so remind us what stage this one is at now? Have you read post #2 of the NEWBIES thread?
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • logician
    • By logician 13th Feb 18, 1:16 AM
    • 194 Posts
    • 76 Thanks
    logician
    My wife has received a claim form from Gladstones via the CCBC in Northants claiming £247.59 for a supposed parking offence in September last year.

    This is the first we have heard of this matter which states that the car (which was not being driven by my wife) was illegally parked on land in Watford. Where it was actually parked was in a visitor bay at a block of apartments.

    Obviously I want to contest this and have acknowledged receipt online to buy myself a bit of time but how best to go about it? I have no evidence nor proof to support my case but assume that they have photographic evidence to support any supposed offence.

    Should I initially contact them and ask for proof? Or should I simply claim that whilst the keeper, the car was not being driven by my wife and we have no way of identifying who was actually responsible (and it wasn't me).
    Originally posted by Berko_lad
    Latest update.

    Having been unable to obtain a response from the friend mentioned above, I contacted Gladstone's and informed then that since I only learned of this offence some months after it occurred and was therefore not afforded the 28 day grace period, I am only willing to pay the discounted fee rather than the full amount they are now claiming (£247). They refused to accept this and as I refused to accept the judgment, I now have a court date of 24 April.

    I obviously have to submit a defence in advance so would welcome any advice on how best to construct this.
    Originally posted by Berko_lad
    I think the OP means he is at WS stage for this case.

    it is concerning though that the OP appears to be conducting his wife's case. the Claim is in his wife's details.

    Has there been an application to the court to be a litigation friend?
    • Berko_lad
    • By Berko_lad 13th Feb 18, 7:10 AM
    • 18 Posts
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    Berko_lad
    No sir, that application will go in today.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 13th Feb 18, 11:56 AM
    • 53,987 Posts
    • 67,662 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    No sir, that application will go in today.
    Originally posted by Berko_lad
    She's not a Sir, and her post has unfortunately caused you to be misled. You don't have to apply to the Court, if you mean you will be a lay rep. The Defendant has to turn up on the day with you, and all submissions must be in the Defendant's name with their signature, but no 'application' needs to be made for you to turn up as Lay Rep at the hearing (the person who speaks).

    You have an automatic right to be a lay rep (although you should take a printout of the relevant law, as proof for a slower Judge).

    Read the case yesterday that muleskinner won, as lay rep for (accompanied by) his wife. Read it now!

    No action required in advance by a lay rep. Don't put your name to the Defendant's submissions.

    I didn't read it that the Defendant is so incapacitated that you have to act as their litigation friend.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 13-02-2018 at 12:01 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • logician
    • By logician 13th Feb 18, 3:41 PM
    • 194 Posts
    • 76 Thanks
    logician
    She's not a Sir, and her post has unfortunately caused you to be misled. You don't have to apply to the Court, if you mean you will be a lay rep. The Defendant has to turn up on the day with you, and all submissions must be in the Defendant's name with their signature, but no 'application' needs to be made for you to turn up as Lay Rep at the hearing (the person who speaks).

    You have an automatic right to be a lay rep (although you should take a printout of the relevant law, as proof for a slower Judge).

    Read the case yesterday that muleskinner won, as lay rep for (accompanied by) his wife. Read it now!

    No action required in advance by a lay rep. Don't put your name to the Defendant's submissions.

    I didn't read it that the Defendant is so incapacitated that you have to act as their litigation friend.
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    Please don't try and twist what I was saying.

    I did not mention being a Lay Rep in any capacity which is a totally different thing

    The OP has confirmed that the claim is in his wife's details and that he has been responding to the documents, using the pronoun "I"

    He has also advised that this is due to his wife's ongoing medical and health needs.

    Now I have no idea what his wife's needs are medically speaking, however he cannot sign witness statements or conduct the proceedings on his wife's behalf.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 13th Feb 18, 4:15 PM
    • 53,987 Posts
    • 67,662 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    We all know that but she's compos mentis and a wife and Mum who can drive (albeit she wasn't driving on this occasion). So there was no suggestion of this OP having to patronise his wife by being a 'litigation friend' as if she's incapable of understanding proceedings.

    So no need to send the OP on a wild goose chase.

    We've already established on this thread that the OP is saying 'I' to make it easier to follow.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 13-02-2018 at 4:18 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 13th Feb 18, 4:37 PM
    • 6,941 Posts
    • 9,033 Thanks
    beamerguy
    Berko_lad

    Now is the time to get this right so PLEASE take notice
    of coupon-mad as she has all the experience you need
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
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