Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@.

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • Berko_lad
    • By Berko_lad 9th Oct 17, 11:09 AM
    • 13Posts
    • 0Thanks
    Berko_lad
    UKPM - County Court Business Centre letter
    • #1
    • 9th Oct 17, 11:09 AM
    UKPM - County Court Business Centre letter 9th Oct 17 at 11:09 AM
    My wife has received a claim form from Gladstones via the CCBC in Northants claiming £247.59 for a supposed parking offence in September last year.

    This is the first we have heard of this matter which states that the car (which was not being driven by my wife) was illegally parked on land in Watford. Where it was actually parked was in a visitor bay at a block of apartments.

    Obviously I want to contest this and have acknowledged receipt online to buy myself a bit of time but how best to go about it? I have no evidence nor proof to support my case but assume that they have photographic evidence to support any supposed offence.

    Should I initially contact them and ask for proof? Or should I simply claim that whilst the keeper, the car was not being driven by my wife and we have no way of identifying who was actually responsible (and it wasn't me).
Page 1
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 9th Oct 17, 11:10 AM
    • 6,161 Posts
    • 7,872 Thanks
    beamerguy
    • #2
    • 9th Oct 17, 11:10 AM
    • #2
    • 9th Oct 17, 11:10 AM
    My wife has received a claim form from Gladstones via the CCBC in Northants claiming £247.59 for a supposed parking offence in September last year.

    This is the first we have heard of this matter which states that the car (which was not being driven by my wife) was illegally parked on land in Watford. Where it was actually parked was in a visitor bay at a block of apartments.

    Obviously I want to contest this and have acknowledged receipt online to buy myself a bit of time but how best to go about it? I have no evidence nor proof to support my case but assume that they have photographic evidence to support any supposed offence.

    Should I initially contact them and ask for proof? Or should I simply claim that whilst the keeper, the car was not being driven by my wife and we have no way of identifying who was actually responsible (and it wasn't me).
    Originally posted by Berko_lad
    What is the date of the claims form ???
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • Berko_lad
    • By Berko_lad 9th Oct 17, 11:12 AM
    • 13 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Berko_lad
    • #3
    • 9th Oct 17, 11:12 AM
    • #3
    • 9th Oct 17, 11:12 AM
    04 Oct 2017
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 9th Oct 17, 11:22 AM
    • 6,161 Posts
    • 7,872 Thanks
    beamerguy
    • #4
    • 9th Oct 17, 11:22 AM
    • #4
    • 9th Oct 17, 11:22 AM
    04 Oct 2017
    Originally posted by Berko_lad
    As of the 1st October there is a new claims procedure

    https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/pdf/protocols/pre-action-protocol-for-debt-claims.pdf

    Gladstones must comply, it's the law

    Have a read through and with your thoughts
    come back here
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • Berko_lad
    • By Berko_lad 9th Oct 17, 11:34 AM
    • 13 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Berko_lad
    • #5
    • 9th Oct 17, 11:34 AM
    • #5
    • 9th Oct 17, 11:34 AM
    Initial thoughts:

    They have failed to comply with a requirement to inform me of the debt (or for that matter, anything related to sect: 3)

    They must provide any documentation I request within 30 days. (sect: 5) which will be interesting given that I now only have 28 days before court proceedings commence.
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 9th Oct 17, 11:40 AM
    • 6,161 Posts
    • 7,872 Thanks
    beamerguy
    • #6
    • 9th Oct 17, 11:40 AM
    • #6
    • 9th Oct 17, 11:40 AM
    Ok, so bear with this as there are a couple of solicitors
    on this forum and others who will assist

    Ring the court to find the date this was filed
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • Johnersh
    • By Johnersh 9th Oct 17, 12:42 PM
    • 515 Posts
    • 924 Thanks
    Johnersh
    • #7
    • 9th Oct 17, 12:42 PM
    • #7
    • 9th Oct 17, 12:42 PM
    Odd that there is no correspondence. Have you moved or re-registered the car?

    In principle, there is nothing to prevent them simply issuing proceedings (apart from you claiming that such conduct is unreasonable and likely motivated by a desire to avoid the protocol, given the 6 yr limitation).

    If the particulars of claim are scant containing little detail (and if you can afford to do it) I'd apply without notice for an "unless order" to compel them to prepare full and detailed particulars before you do a defence and to compel disclosure of the documents that you are entitled to in any event. I can help with the wording if you are up for that.

    If the application is successful, your £100 (no hearing required) should be recoverable from the claimant.

    It's a risk, but the PPCs get away with poor practice as they know the fees deter defendants from lodging applications.
    • Berko_lad
    • By Berko_lad 9th Oct 17, 12:54 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Berko_lad
    • #8
    • 9th Oct 17, 12:54 PM
    • #8
    • 9th Oct 17, 12:54 PM
    No, she is at the same address and the car has now been sold as it wasn't being used.

    Not sure I want to go down that route. Other then lodge my acknowledgment, all I've done thus far is to request proof from them that an actual offence took place.

    Typically, the courts won't tell me that date the action was filed because it's in my wifes name and she's away at the moment. Data protection and all that....
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 9th Oct 17, 1:08 PM
    • 7,165 Posts
    • 6,206 Thanks
    The Deep
    • #9
    • 9th Oct 17, 1:08 PM
    • #9
    • 9th Oct 17, 1:08 PM
    Send pped a letter in your wife's name.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • safarmuk
    • By safarmuk 9th Oct 17, 1:21 PM
    • 561 Posts
    • 991 Thanks
    safarmuk
    Is this UK CPM?

    This is the first we have heard of this matter which states that the car (which was not being driven by my wife) was illegally parked on land in Watford. Where it was actually parked was in a visitor bay at a block of apartments.
    If so, this is the second recent thread about court papers being issued by UK CPM for land in Watford (the other thread states that the picture of the car is not even in Watford). In your case was the driver actually in Watford and was the driver visiting someone in the block of flats? If you let us know the street name where the incident is meant to have taken place then we can look up the signs on Google street map for you and check them out (I am assuming you don't live there)
    • Berko_lad
    • By Berko_lad 9th Oct 17, 4:23 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Berko_lad
    I'm not sure who the driver actually was (it could have been one of three kids!) but the claim reads:
    '... for breaching the terms of parking on the land at The Reeds - Anglian Close, Watford, Hertfordshire, WD24 4RU.
    The defendant was driving the vehicle and/or is the keeper of the vehicle.'

    If this is where I think it is, as I said earlier, the vehicle would have been parked in a visitors bay as we used to know someone who lived there but I cannot confirm or deny that it was actually there that day nor have I been provided with any evidence of any kind.
    • safarmuk
    • By safarmuk 9th Oct 17, 4:40 PM
    • 561 Posts
    • 991 Thanks
    safarmuk
    So looking on Google Street View, this is a private residential estate (looks like blocks of flats).

    Need a little information on your circumstances, do you own/rent a flat in that estate or were you just visiting someone who owns/rents a flat in that estate?
    • Berko_lad
    • By Berko_lad 9th Oct 17, 5:15 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Berko_lad
    Visiting. However, they no longer live there.
    • safarmuk
    • By safarmuk 9th Oct 17, 6:06 PM
    • 561 Posts
    • 991 Thanks
    safarmuk
    Visiting. However, they no longer live there.
    OK. Did they own or rent, if the former do they have a copy of their lease at the time? If the latter do they have a copy of the AST?
    You need to find out what it said regarding parking.

    I am presuming the "infringement" was due to not having a permit displayed?
    You don't have any details like the original windscreen ticket or NtK? Do they even provide the date and time of the event?
    Last edited by safarmuk; 09-10-2017 at 6:09 PM.
    • Berko_lad
    • By Berko_lad 9th Oct 17, 9:16 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Berko_lad
    They were renting but they've moved abroad so it'll be difficult to get anything from them.

    There is no requirement to display a permit in the visitors bays at this block.

    The only information I have is as quoted above and the date which was the 20 Sept 2017.
    • safarmuk
    • By safarmuk 10th Oct 17, 9:38 AM
    • 561 Posts
    • 991 Thanks
    safarmuk
    OK, so we don't know:
    * The date or time of the alleged infringement or;
    * The reason the PCN was issued

    There is no requirement to display a permit in the visitors bays at this block.
    I doubt this, UK CPM use permits at Residential sites (not ANPR) and I am almost certain that they would require them for visitors bays as well as residents own bays (which is a complete farce)

    You really need to get hold of the people you were visiting by email to find out some information if you can.

    Finally what is the date on the claim you have received - is it after 1st October? If so the new pre-action protocols will apply meaning they must provide you more information, because as of now you seem to be implying you have a claim form with very little particulars (including no mention of the date or time of the alleged infringement or the reason the PCN was issued - presuming no photos either). Can you redact the personal identifiable details from the claim form, host it on an image hosting site and then post the broken link here (e.g. hxxp instead of http to get round the fact that as a new user you cannot post links). We can then look for ourselves and advise.
    Last edited by safarmuk; 10-10-2017 at 10:46 AM.
    • Berko_lad
    • By Berko_lad 10th Oct 17, 10:38 AM
    • 13 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Berko_lad
    This is the information on the N1SDT we received. This is all we have and have ever had.

    The driver of the vehicle registration XXXXXXX (the vehicle) incurred the parking charge(s) on 20/09/2016 for breaching the terms of parking on the land at The Reeds - Anglian Close, Watford, Hertfordshire, WD24 4RU.
    The defendant was driving the vehicle and/or is the keeper of the vehicle.
    AND THE CLAIMANT CLAIMS
    £160 for parking charges / damages ad indemnity costs if applicable together with interest of £12.29 pursuant to s69 of the County Courts Act 984 at 8% pa, continuing to judgment at £00.04 per day.

    The date of the claim was 4th October 2017 but they will not tell me when the claim was filed as it's in my wife's name and she's away at the moment.

    With regard to the parking, if there was a need for permits in visitors bays we were certainly not aware of it and we'd parked there on numerous occasions previously.
    • safarmuk
    • By safarmuk 10th Oct 17, 2:24 PM
    • 561 Posts
    • 991 Thanks
    safarmuk
    OK. So basically we need your wife (the RK) to go back and ask them for the standard stuff, you can search this thread for other "own space" or "residential tickets" threads and see what people are advised to ask for such as:
    * Copy of the original NtK (this should have come to the address on the V5 of the car)
    * Copy of the contract with the landowner allowing them to give out PCNs
    * Etc.

    Whether they respond or not ...

    Also if this claim was indeed raised after 1st October it needs to follow the new pre-action protocols, you can read about what needs to be provided here:
    https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/pdf/protocols/pre-action-protocol-for-debt-claims.pdf
    If they haven't done this then you probably need to respond accordingly. Search for posts by Jonersh or LoadsOfChildren123 who have both written such responses for others

    With regard to the parking, if there was a need for permits in visitors bays we were certainly not aware of it and we'd parked there on numerous occasions previously.
    Google Street Maps shows some signs up in the roads around this location ...

    When did your friends move out and you definitely can't get in touch with them or their landlord?
    I will also do a bit of digging to see if I can find out who the actual landowner is.

    Their are also several roads in this estate, your claim says "Anglian Close" ... was that the actual road the driver parked in?
    • Berko_lad
    • By Berko_lad 10th Oct 17, 2:42 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Berko_lad
    All done. Am trying to get hold of friend but it's difficult as they are currently moving around.
    • safarmuk
    • By safarmuk 10th Oct 17, 3:23 PM
    • 561 Posts
    • 991 Thanks
    safarmuk
    All done. Am trying to get hold of friend but it's difficult as they are currently moving around.
    Gone travelling?
    On a serious note, do you mean your wife has asked for all the information above and anything else of use?

    Also, if you know their address you can get the lease for that property from the Land Registry for a small fee (that you could try to claim back if you win). The lease for that property would tell you the parking rights.

    Once we work out who the landowner is and your friend is in contact you can potentially contact the landowner with the information that you were a genuine visitor to a tenant at the time ... if they still know their landlord and can get them involved so much the better. The landlord really shouldn't want his tenant or his tenants visitors being harassed like this so should help with a suitable email.

    Keep this thread updated with your progress on what information you get back and host and link anything useful for us to see and investigate (with all personal information redacted).
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

3,335Posts Today

6,856Users online

Martin's Twitter
  • RT @LordsEconCom: On Tuesday Martin Lewis, Hannah Morrish & Shakira Martin gave evidence to the Cttee. Read the full transcript here: https?

  • Ta ta for now. Half term's starting, so I'm exchanging my MoneySavingExpert hat for one that says Daddy in big letters. See you in a week.

  • RT @thismorning: Can @MartinSLewis' deals save YOU cash? ???? https://t.co/igbHCwzeiN

  • Follow Martin