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  • FIRST POST
    • eddyinfreehold
    • By eddyinfreehold 8th Oct 17, 9:58 PM
    • 114Posts
    • 87Thanks
    eddyinfreehold
    Thank your lucky stars you don't live in the USA
    • #1
    • 8th Oct 17, 9:58 PM
    Thank your lucky stars you don't live in the USA 8th Oct 17 at 9:58 PM
    My magazine just dropped on the doormat on Wednesday and I took the time to go through it this weekend. This article is jaw droppingly unbelievable. This is what is actually legal in some states in the US under State and not Federal Law. Unless of course you have the wallet to challenge it in court. Is this the way we are going in the UK after Brexit? I sincerely hope not....

    https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/10/09/how-the-elderly-lose-their-rights
Page 1
    • PeacefulWaters
    • By PeacefulWaters 8th Oct 17, 10:05 PM
    • 7,292 Posts
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    PeacefulWaters
    • #2
    • 8th Oct 17, 10:05 PM
    • #2
    • 8th Oct 17, 10:05 PM
    Why on Earth would Brexit create such a situation?
    • bostonerimus
    • By bostonerimus 9th Oct 17, 1:23 AM
    • 1,212 Posts
    • 668 Thanks
    bostonerimus
    • #3
    • 9th Oct 17, 1:23 AM
    • #3
    • 9th Oct 17, 1:23 AM
    We're talking about Nevada here. There is certainly a worrying tendency for the UK to follow the US in many things, but I don't see how Brexit and Nevada's guardianship laws are linked. However, there are many in the UK that see the market oriented solutions to everything that are popular in the US as potentially good for the UK too.
    Misanthrope in search of similar for mutual loathing
    • eddyinfreehold
    • By eddyinfreehold 9th Oct 17, 6:36 AM
    • 114 Posts
    • 87 Thanks
    eddyinfreehold
    • #4
    • 9th Oct 17, 6:36 AM
    • #4
    • 9th Oct 17, 6:36 AM
    Brexit would allow the UK to plough its own furrow legally. I'm not saying the above would happen, it could happen. It is difficult to imagine pan European legislation even coming close to discussing the concept, let alone implementing it.
    • marlot
    • By marlot 9th Oct 17, 6:44 AM
    • 3,133 Posts
    • 2,274 Thanks
    marlot
    • #5
    • 9th Oct 17, 6:44 AM
    • #5
    • 9th Oct 17, 6:44 AM
    What on earth has this to do with Brexit?

    I suggest you google 'Court of Protection' to see what we do in the UK.

    eg. http://www.doughtystreet.co.uk/documents/uploaded-documents/Transparency_Pilot_COP_-_Paper.pdf
    • hyubh
    • By hyubh 9th Oct 17, 8:19 AM
    • 1,980 Posts
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    hyubh
    • #6
    • 9th Oct 17, 8:19 AM
    • #6
    • 9th Oct 17, 8:19 AM
    Brexit would allow the UK to plough its own furrow legally.
    Originally posted by eddyinfreehold
    Surely it already does?

    I'm not saying the above would happen, it could happen. It is difficult to imagine pan European legislation even coming close to discussing the concept, let alone implementing it.
    Right - it would be (is) a matter for member states.

    I have to say, as an argument for why leaving a would-be federal superstate is a bad thing, pointing to something dubious in an actual federal superstate is… unorthodox...
    • PeacefulWaters
    • By PeacefulWaters 9th Oct 17, 8:43 AM
    • 7,292 Posts
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    PeacefulWaters
    • #7
    • 9th Oct 17, 8:43 AM
    • #7
    • 9th Oct 17, 8:43 AM
    Brexit would allow the UK to plough its own furrow legally. I'm not saying the above would happen, it could happen. It is difficult to imagine pan European legislation even coming close to discussing the concept, let alone implementing it.
    Originally posted by eddyinfreehold
    I'm not familiar with pan-EU power of attorney rules.

    But I'd hazard a guess that ours are a damn site stronger than the majority and will remain so.

    You've picked a terrible choice of subject to justify reversing Brexit. There are far better ones to go at.
    • eddyinfreehold
    • By eddyinfreehold 9th Oct 17, 9:09 AM
    • 114 Posts
    • 87 Thanks
    eddyinfreehold
    • #8
    • 9th Oct 17, 9:09 AM
    • #8
    • 9th Oct 17, 9:09 AM
    Golly me, people are sensitive about Brexit. I am not saying leaving the EU is a bad thing, or I am a sore loser in this increasingly polarised debate. All I am saying is that by taking back on board our own completely independent legislation, and not having the buffer of EU statute, future law could change for what I see as for the worse as we head for an increasingly market led economy.

    Marlot. I am well aware of the Court of Protection. I am a carer for my 20 year old daughter who has neither the physical or mental capacity to look after herself. I worry for her future. Over the last two decades I have experienced a spiralling decline in provision of care for her as services are either constantly changed, cut, rationalised or privatised. Just about everything these days is accountant led, with therapists, clinicians and educators subservient to them. The amount of paperwork required to access any provision is half a full time job for a carer, and often depressing and overwhelming.

    There is nothing great about a nation whose law allows people to make a fast buck out of the weaker members of society. My worry is that we are inexorably heading that way. Let me sign off with a couple of quotations. There are many others on a similar vein.

    "...the moral test of government is how that government treats those who are in the dawn of life, the children; those who are in the twilight of life, the elderly; those who are in the shadows of life; the sick, the needy and the handicapped. "

    Hubert H. Humphrey


    "A nation's greatness is measured by how it treats its weakest members."

    Mahatma Ghandi
    • robin61
    • By robin61 9th Oct 17, 9:25 AM
    • 571 Posts
    • 447 Thanks
    robin61
    • #9
    • 9th Oct 17, 9:25 AM
    • #9
    • 9th Oct 17, 9:25 AM
    Golly me, people are sensitive about Brexit.

    Mahatma Ghandi
    Originally posted by eddyinfreehold
    If the electorate don't agree with new laws future UK Governments introduce they can vote them out after 5 years. It's the EU Commission who have the power to propose and make EU law and we can't vote to replace them if we are unhappy with their performance.

    I struggle to understand why are you more worried about future legislation made by the UK than the EU.
    The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.
    • IanManc
    • By IanManc 9th Oct 17, 9:31 AM
    • 367 Posts
    • 544 Thanks
    IanManc
    Golly me, people are sensitive about Brexit.
    Originally posted by eddyinfreehold
    "People" aren't sensitive about Brexit. "People" are simply pointing out that your attempts to link laws in Nevada with Brexit are completely ridiculous.
    • martinsurrey
    • By martinsurrey 9th Oct 17, 10:11 AM
    • 3,224 Posts
    • 3,927 Thanks
    martinsurrey
    Is this the way we are going in the UK after Brexit? I sincerely hope not....

    https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/10/09/how-the-elderly-lose-their-rights
    Originally posted by eddyinfreehold
    Golly me, people are sensitive about Brexit.
    Originally posted by eddyinfreehold
    People are sensitive, like you...

    You read about the laws that are allowed in part of a federal superstate and link it as a possible outcome of us leaving a looming federal super state...

    There are plenty of things to worry about with Brexit, but trying to link every single thing in the world as a potential downside of Brexit just makes a mockery of the real key issues.
    • Malthusian
    • By Malthusian 9th Oct 17, 10:14 AM
    • 3,434 Posts
    • 5,267 Thanks
    Malthusian
    Perhaps what eddy is saying is that as over half the population are such dribbling imbeciles they voted for Brexit (his opinion, not mine) the Court of Protection will have to take over their finances and will thereby run the lives and the finances of half the country.

    A very sad story but the British system is considerably more advanced than the Nevadan one.

    We are lucky enough to live in a country which has developed a very rigorous system for looking after people who can't look after themselves, whether they have someone willing to do it for them or not, and whether they had the foresight to plan for it or not. In most countries you have to cross your fingers and hope your relatives don't rob you.

    I am not saying ours is perfect - what I am saying is that legal systems develop and improve over centuries and ours is further ahead than the Nevadan one.

    Eddy has gone from talking about the guardianship / attorney system to lack of funding for state care, which are two completely different subjects. One is about legal safeguards and the other is about money. Taxpayer-funded healthcare is always underfunded and always will be.
    • bigadaj
    • By bigadaj 9th Oct 17, 11:19 AM
    • 10,803 Posts
    • 7,099 Thanks
    bigadaj
    I've always struggled with the Gandhi quote, the depth of poverty in India is of a different order to anywhere else in the world, with the exception of certain areas of Africa, and the whole Hindu, karma and caste approach is totally at odds with that statement.
    • Alan Cross
    • By Alan Cross 9th Oct 17, 12:16 PM
    • 1,125 Posts
    • 1,117 Thanks
    Alan Cross
    My sympathies, Eddy.

    All you did was mention that Brexit would, effectively, 'localise' our legislature (a la Nevada) and give voice to the consequent possibility that May's threat to establish GB as a low-cost, low-wage, race-to-the-bottom fairyland might just have some negative implications for the kind of folks who haven't got the dough to live in nice, gated communities.

    Needless to say, this is heresy to the Brexit-at-ANY-price frothers hereabouts.

    Don't forget: you lost the referendum by a tiny fraction and this of course disqualifies your thoughts from having any validity... oh and by the way, despite the passage of time and the obvious possibility that the electorate may have changed its mind on this matter of generational, national importance, you're not allowed to give mention to the idea of a confirmatory, second referendum...
    • bugslet
    • By bugslet 9th Oct 17, 12:41 PM
    • 5,752 Posts
    • 28,191 Thanks
    bugslet
    My sympathies, Eddy.

    All you did was mention that Brexit would, effectively, 'localise' our legislature (a la Nevada) and give voice to the consequent possibility that May's threat to establish GB as a low-cost, low-wage, race-to-the-bottom fairyland might just have some negative implications for the kind of folks who haven't got the dough to live in nice, gated communities.

    Needless to say, this is heresy to the Brexit-at-ANY-price frothers hereabouts.

    Don't forget: you lost the referendum by a tiny fraction and this of course disqualifies your thoughts from having any validity... oh and by the way, despite the passage of time and the obvious possibility that the electorate may have changed its mind on this matter of generational, national importance, you're not allowed to give mention to the idea of a confirmatory, second referendum...
    Originally posted by Alan Cross
    I think it was finding two completely seperate things and linking them together to make a ridiculous conclusion.

    Maybe after Brexit we could license guns for the average person and then as that would obviously happen, we would have a massacre just like Vegas, only Glastonbury. And from a tent.
    • steampowered
    • By steampowered 9th Oct 17, 1:15 PM
    • 1,948 Posts
    • 1,823 Thanks
    steampowered
    All I am saying is that by taking back on board our own completely independent legislation, and not having the buffer of EU statute, future law could change for what I see as for the worse as we head for an increasingly market led economy.
    This argument doesn't make sense.

    EU law doesn't regulate this area and probably never will. This is one area of the law where Brexit doesn't have an impact.
    • atush
    • By atush 9th Oct 17, 1:40 PM
    • 16,372 Posts
    • 10,132 Thanks
    atush
    A ridiculous OP that nothing to do wih Brexit, and given all 50 US states have their own laws doesnt have much to do with the USA outside of Nevada.
    • bostonerimus
    • By bostonerimus 9th Oct 17, 1:57 PM
    • 1,212 Posts
    • 668 Thanks
    bostonerimus
    I think the OP is tapping into a fear that exists with many people post Brexit that their voice is not heard and that a few rich special interests can use the UK's democracy for their own gain.
    Misanthrope in search of similar for mutual loathing
    • OldBeanz
    • By OldBeanz 9th Oct 17, 2:16 PM
    • 701 Posts
    • 545 Thanks
    OldBeanz
    Let's be grateful we are not American would be my way of looking at it.
    • OldBeanz
    • By OldBeanz 9th Oct 17, 2:18 PM
    • 701 Posts
    • 545 Thanks
    OldBeanz
    ...

    "A nation's greatness is measured by how it treats its weakest members."

    Mahatma Ghandi
    Originally posted by eddyinfreehold
    He should have taken note of how they treated its strongest as he may have lasted a bit longer.
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