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  • FIRST POST
    • PCNRECIPIENT
    • By PCNRECIPIENT 8th Oct 17, 8:06 PM
    • 11Posts
    • 3Thanks
    PCNRECIPIENT
    Please (please!) advise
    • #1
    • 8th Oct 17, 8:06 PM
    Please (please!) advise 8th Oct 17 at 8:06 PM
    To the esteemed panel here,

    I'm really in some distress having receiving a PCN, twice on the same das. I've spent the weekend reading threads about PCNs but still cannot ascertain which action is best. I'm sorry if now ask you questions which have you've answered to others.

    Is this is a genuine-sounding PCN? Factors suggesting it is:
    i) The car park was visited on the day in question ii) The car ID'd is the keeper's car iii) It is POSSIBLE there was the alleged overstay (went beyond the 'free parking period).

    OR -- is this not a genuine/reputable/creditable PCN? In other words, is the attached a 'try-on' and should the keeper ignore/challenge it and/or complain to the retailer (MORRISONS supermarket)? Factors suggesting something is indeed amiss:

    i) The amount is not insignificant (£145), presumably because interest has accrued since July, and because they claim to have enlisted a tracing service (due to the vehicle's registered address changing), which presumably cost them money which they must want reimbursement for.

    ii) This is the vey first the keeper has heard about it (no ticket at the time in July, but notification now -- October) iiii) There is no evidence and the statement 'agreed to by the driver' is untrue.

    If it is genuine PCN and looks authentic/creditable, is the template "for IPC members" (posted on the 'NEWBIES' thread and commencing with the text "I am the registered keeper...") the most suitable template in this situation to use?


    Or would you recommend just paying it? It's been suggested to enlist an appeal management firm, the likes of which charge a small-ish flat fee, (albeit without guarantee of overturning)? Could CoupounMad or another wise owl please advise on what the driver should do?

    With many many thanks in advance,
    PCNRECIPIENT
    Last edited by PCNRECIPIENT; 08-10-2017 at 11:48 PM.
Page 1
    • Redx
    • By Redx 8th Oct 17, 8:09 PM
    • 16,087 Posts
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    Redx
    • #2
    • 8th Oct 17, 8:09 PM
    • #2
    • 8th Oct 17, 8:09 PM
    who is the PPC in question ?

    ALWAYS complain to Morrissons head office, usually by email, or their CEO by email, and insist on a cancellation (that goes without saying)

    you cannot upload files here, there is no facility to do so as its not a hosting site

    try tinypic and then add a dead URL to your reply

    and edit your last post to remove any hint of who was driving

    use THE DRIVER and THE KEEPER (for all intents and purposes, these are two different entities)

    ps:- how long is the alleged "overstay" ???

    and when was the alleged date of contravention ???
    Last edited by Redx; 08-10-2017 at 8:14 PM.
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • PCNRECIPIENT
    • By PCNRECIPIENT 8th Oct 17, 8:18 PM
    • 11 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    PCNRECIPIENT
    • #3
    • 8th Oct 17, 8:18 PM
    • #3
    • 8th Oct 17, 8:18 PM
    Thanks so much Redx; need to eat -- then Ill come back ASAP. really helpful of you, thx again
    • PCNRECIPIENT
    • By PCNRECIPIENT 8th Oct 17, 11:03 PM
    • 11 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    PCNRECIPIENT
    • #4
    • 8th Oct 17, 11:03 PM
    • #4
    • 8th Oct 17, 11:03 PM
    Hi again Redx,
    What an awful business this is.

    The PPC in question is Euro Car Parks Ltd.

    In line with your helpful advice, the keeper has emailed Morrisons HQ to complain.

    I will look at some edits as you suggest -- thanks and, tomorrow if you're about (?) try to make an upload. Would that help in terms of the nature of your advice you could give?

    Lastly, the alleged "overstay" is not specified in the demand. Would a £150 penalty be excessive? The date of the alleged overstay was July 6th 2017. The first notification the keeper had of it was Sat just gone; Oct 6th 2017.

    Can you kindly shed any more light?
    Last edited by PCNRECIPIENT; 08-10-2017 at 11:38 PM.
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 8th Oct 17, 11:17 PM
    • 3,951 Posts
    • 2,195 Thanks
    KeithP
    • #5
    • 8th Oct 17, 11:17 PM
    • #5
    • 8th Oct 17, 11:17 PM
    Surely it was the keeper that emailed Morrisons?

    It really is important to keep the the roles of KEEPER and DRIVER distinct.

    Similarly, a later sentence should start:
    The first notification the keeper had...
    Please edit your post accordingly.

    This sort of thing is important as PPCs trawl internet forums looking for people to trip themselves up.
    .
    • Redx
    • By Redx 8th Oct 17, 11:23 PM
    • 16,087 Posts
    • 20,116 Thanks
    Redx
    • #6
    • 8th Oct 17, 11:23 PM
    • #6
    • 8th Oct 17, 11:23 PM
    I would have thought that the KEEPER emailed Morrissons

    and it was the KEEPER that received the MCOL, unless somebody was daft enough to blab about who was driving ?

    if the driver has not been named, stay as KEEPER in this matter - ALWAYS

    the amount in your statement is not "huge" , a typical loss could be around £175 including fees , this applies to anybody that loses in court, so £175 is the "standard" loss

    if you win , you can claim up to about £95 in fees etc

    ECP should have sent an NTK before day 15 in order to comply with POFA2012 (assuming no windscreen ticket was left for the driver)

    this has nothing at all to do with the driver, the keeper is the defendant

    it may seem pedantic, but this is a legal matter where words count

    this court claim should have followed the new rules on MCOL protocols that came in a week ago , so if you have no Particulars Of Claim it appears they have failed the new protocols,
    Last edited by Redx; 08-10-2017 at 11:26 PM.
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • PCNRECIPIENT
    • By PCNRECIPIENT 8th Oct 17, 11:25 PM
    • 11 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    PCNRECIPIENT
    • #7
    • 8th Oct 17, 11:25 PM
    • #7
    • 8th Oct 17, 11:25 PM
    Thanks Keith; sorry for the slips.As to the outlined situation, what does it sound like to you? Do you favour these appeal firms? The level of stress it's causing is significant.
    • Redx
    • By Redx 8th Oct 17, 11:29 PM
    • 16,087 Posts
    • 20,116 Thanks
    Redx
    • #8
    • 8th Oct 17, 11:29 PM
    • #8
    • 8th Oct 17, 11:29 PM
    personally I cannot recommend these "firms" , its a do it yourself job here, all the regulars (including coupon-mad) will tell you , as KEEPER, to defend it , as KEEPER

    FORGET ALL ABOUT WHO WAS DRIVING , YOU ARE DEFENDING AS KEEPER
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • PCNRECIPIENT
    • By PCNRECIPIENT 8th Oct 17, 11:32 PM
    • 11 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    PCNRECIPIENT
    • #9
    • 8th Oct 17, 11:32 PM
    • #9
    • 8th Oct 17, 11:32 PM
    Redx, understood on language precision. Thanks. Do my utmost.
    It is poss that ECP sent the NTK before day 15 to the keeper's old address.
    But if the keeper did not receive the NTK (the keeper may have moved or been out the country), then are they technically in breach of the rule you cite? And if there is a breach, could the PCN be quashed?
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 8th Oct 17, 11:39 PM
    • 3,951 Posts
    • 2,195 Thanks
    KeithP
    Similarly, the misuse of the word driver still exists in your opening post.

    The word driver appears twelve times in that post.
    Seven of those should be keeper.

    The first occurrence of the word registered should be removed from that post too.
    .
    • Redx
    • By Redx 8th Oct 17, 11:41 PM
    • 16,087 Posts
    • 20,116 Thanks
    Redx
    yes they could have , but it should be in their MCOL details under the new protocols , detailing the claim

    and all they have to do is prove they sent one to the RK address as received from the DVLA database

    it was the KEEPERS job to update those details and the keeper could be fined up to £1000 for not doing so (so I hope this has now been done)

    only a judge can "quash" this, on legal arguments only , so dont think there is an easy get out
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • PCNRECIPIENT
    • By PCNRECIPIENT 8th Oct 17, 11:41 PM
    • 11 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    PCNRECIPIENT
    this court claim should have followed the new rules on MCOL protocols that came in a week ago , so if you have no Particulars Of Claim it appears they have failed the new protocols,
    What is the consequence of failing the protocols? To my knowledge, no; the keeper has not received a Particulars Of C, assuming that is a form. But note; the PCN sent to the keeper does not appear to be a "court claim" -- or is it, in essence?
    • Redx
    • By Redx 8th Oct 17, 11:42 PM
    • 16,087 Posts
    • 20,116 Thanks
    Redx
    we dont know, its only a week old , give it time to bed in, but we assume the initial judge may strike it out if the claimant has failed the new rules

    and you need to edit post #1 yet again

    the driver incurred the initial charge

    THE KEEPER has received all the recent paperwork
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • PCNRECIPIENT
    • By PCNRECIPIENT 8th Oct 17, 11:45 PM
    • 11 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    PCNRECIPIENT
    Keith P, I see, OP updated, thank you -- trying!
    • PCNRECIPIENT
    • By PCNRECIPIENT 8th Oct 17, 11:51 PM
    • 11 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    PCNRECIPIENT
    Redx, ok, understood - edited again, hopefully better?
    It doesn't seem like the situation I have outlined to you -- this unjust PCN -- can be worked out here on this forum, until time passes due to the leg needing to bed in. Is that your hunch? And time is not on the keeper's side given that the paperwork sent to the keeper specifies a payment within 10 days to avoid escalation,
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 9th Oct 17, 12:04 AM
    • 3,951 Posts
    • 2,195 Thanks
    KeithP
    PCNRECIPIENT, is the only thing you have received so far the two PCNs?

    It's just that this talk about court protocols may be a little premature.
    .
    • Redx
    • By Redx 9th Oct 17, 12:05 AM
    • 16,087 Posts
    • 20,116 Thanks
    Redx
    ECP is a BPA member so use the blue text template if you have received a late pcn

    if its an LBC , you reply using the letters posted in post #2 of the Newbies sticky thread

    if its an MCOL from Northampton (a court claim) then you follow the advice in post #2 of that NEWBIES sticky thread
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • PCNRECIPIENT
    • By PCNRECIPIENT 9th Oct 17, 12:09 AM
    • 11 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    PCNRECIPIENT
    Keith, yes -- just the 2 PCNs. But one case number on both payment notices.
    • PCNRECIPIENT
    • By PCNRECIPIENT 9th Oct 17, 12:15 AM
    • 11 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    PCNRECIPIENT
    Redx, ok thanks -- so the text finding fault with the signage, commencing... 'I believe that your signs fail the test of 'large lettering' and prominence.'

    Is that correct, as they are a BPA member (based on the logo on the doc. sent to the keeper)? IPCA is the other prominent logo.
    As I'm unusre what MCOL and LBC is, I must not have received those.
    • Redx
    • By Redx 9th Oct 17, 12:18 AM
    • 16,087 Posts
    • 20,116 Thanks
    Redx
    yes, the one in blue , use it "as is" , no alterations , from post #1

    post #9 of that same thread explains the acronyms, as does google

    you can check the trade body by googling BPA AOS and IPC AOS and looking for their name on both websites

    you will find them on the BPA AOS site
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
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