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  • FIRST POST
    • malin96
    • By malin96 8th Oct 17, 2:17 PM
    • 4Posts
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    malin96
    Cel letter before action
    • #1
    • 8th Oct 17, 2:17 PM
    Cel letter before action 8th Oct 17 at 2:17 PM
    I had 2 pcn's from this company. I sent the same email but changed the pcn number for each pcn
    .
    email:
    I am the registered keeper of the vehicle registration number *** confirm receipt of your parking charge notice****** and deny any liability to pay this parking charge.

    As you appear to be circumventing the requirements of POFA 2012, the registered keeper is not responsible for this charge, but the driver. I therefore suggest you take this matter up with that person.

    The amount claimed constitutes an unlawful penalty, as it is not a genuine pre-estimate of any loss you pretend you have and I further contend that you have no legal authority to pursue any charge.

    Now as you are pursuing the wrong person, you are being put on notice that complaints are being prepared to submit to the BPA and DVLA and I suggest that you cancel this parking charge immediately to save further embarrassment.

    However should you wish to pursue this matter further, then you are more than welcome to supply a POPLA code which will result in further appeal points raised.

    You should be aware that if you either continue to pursue myself as keeper (with or without supplying a POPLA code), then I reserve the right to raise a claim for my costs and time against you at a court rate of £18 per hour. My costs are not exhaustive and will include stationery, stamps, travel expenses and any legal costs etc, and by continuing to pursue me you agree to pay these should I prevail.

    CEL also have not provided any photographic or documentary evidence to me that any alleged contravention took place.

    In view of the above, I look forward to receiving your written confirmation by return that this parking charge has been cancelled.


    I received acknowledgment of receipt for both emails. A few days later, I get a letter in the post saying one of them has been cancelled. I assumed they had cancelled both as I hadn't received a letter regarding the other pcn. They are still pursuing the other pcn even though I have never received any letter including a POPLA back from them. I only have 8 days until the chance to pay expires.

    Im currently in my last year of university, the letter are going to my mothers home and she isn't getting fairly stressed over the matter.

    Please help me and excuse any grammar/spelling mistakes.

    Thank you all
Page 1
    • Redx
    • By Redx 8th Oct 17, 2:23 PM
    • 16,923 Posts
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    Redx
    • #2
    • 8th Oct 17, 2:23 PM
    • #2
    • 8th Oct 17, 2:23 PM
    if they refused a pcn and failed to give a popla code, report them to the DVLA and to the BPA email addresses, for a failure to provide a popla code for the pcn that was refused

    if it was appealed and nothing was heard back, report them for that instead (code breach)

    ideally, you want a popla code for the pursued pcn

    provide copies of all paperwork as well , including the dates of the emailed appeals , and refusals etc (so all the paper trails)
    Last edited by Redx; 08-10-2017 at 8:05 PM.
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 8th Oct 17, 2:24 PM
    • 33,539 Posts
    • 17,432 Thanks
    Quentin
    • #3
    • 8th Oct 17, 2:24 PM
    • #3
    • 8th Oct 17, 2:24 PM
    Everyone is politely asked to read up on this in the Newbies faq thread near the top of the forum before starting a new thread

    All advice is there on what to do and when after getting a lbcca (if that's what you have received)
    • malin96
    • By malin96 8th Oct 17, 6:03 PM
    • 4 Posts
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    malin96
    • #4
    • 8th Oct 17, 6:03 PM
    • #4
    • 8th Oct 17, 6:03 PM
    Thanks you all for replying.
    So I should just send a letter similar to the one in post 11 from the newbie thread. sorry it won t let me post a link as a new user.

    Is it possible of me to email this? or does it have to be a letter?

    My mother wants to pay it just to get rid of it. I have many other stressors taking up my time at the moment.

    I only started a new thread because they haven't supplied me with a POPLA code as they should have, so I was wondering if there was an easy way to get it thrown out because of that.

    An lbcca is what I have received.

    thanks
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 8th Oct 17, 6:45 PM
    • 33,539 Posts
    • 17,432 Thanks
    Quentin
    • #5
    • 8th Oct 17, 6:45 PM
    • #5
    • 8th Oct 17, 6:45 PM
    Poat 11 (#11) in the newbies faq thread doesn't contain any template letter - you need to check the location of the letter (or post it here)


    As you have actually received a LBCCA then concentrate on #2 in the FAQ


    Advice is there on replying to this together with links to suggested templates to adapt.
    • Redx
    • By Redx 8th Oct 17, 6:58 PM
    • 16,923 Posts
    • 21,045 Thanks
    Redx
    • #6
    • 8th Oct 17, 6:58 PM
    • #6
    • 8th Oct 17, 6:58 PM
    as I said, if they did not supply a popla code complain to the DVLA and the BPA by email, with copies of all correspondence

    if you have an LBC, you reply using the letters from post #2 (not #11) of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • malin96
    • By malin96 8th Oct 17, 7:41 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    malin96
    • #7
    • 8th Oct 17, 7:41 PM
    • #7
    • 8th Oct 17, 7:41 PM
    Re - your Letter before Claim re PCN xxxxxxxx

    This is a formal response to your 'Letter before Court Action'. I remind you of the overriding objective and - if your company really has a 'Legal Department' - then the qualified staff member will recognise that Civil Enforcement Ltd has no cause of action in law, but that I do.

    When your company issues a 'parking charge' you do not use Schedule 4 of the POFA 2012, therefore you have no basis whatsoever to write to a registered keeper, except for the single purpose allowed under the DVLA KADOE rules, namely to 'enquire who was driving'. You must not use the data for any other purpose whatsoever, and certainly not to pursue a registered keeper as if the alleged 'debt' was their liability in law.

    You have failed to supply any photographs or evidence of the driver, nor even the 'contract' (in this case presumably a sign), nor have you set out clearly, the basis upon which you are attempting to hold me liable. The charge is disingenuously described in your letter as 'your debt' and you have drawn up a draft claim form in my name, whilst failing to point out that this is/was a matter for a driver alone.

    The driver's identity will not be supplied to a company like yours. There is no dispute that the driver was entitled to drive the car and I can confirm that they were. As the keeper of the vehicle, it is my right to choose not to name the driver, yet still not be lawfully held liable if an operator is not using or complying with Schedule 4.

    Should you seek to proceed with a claim I will apply for it to be struck out, due to CPR Part 3.4:

    (a) that Civil Enforcement's statement of case will disclose no reasonable grounds for bringing the claim;
    (b) that the statement of case will be an abuse of the court’s process or is otherwise likely to obstruct the just disposal of the proceedings; and
    (c) that there has been a failure to comply with a rule, practice direction or court order.

    Breaches of the Pre-action Practice Direction (“the PD”):

    Paras 3, 8 and 12 of the PD set out its purpose, which is to primarily to avoid litigation (para 8) by laying down a procedure which allows the parties to:
    - understand each other’s positions (para 3)
    - make decisions about how to proceed (para 3)
    - explore settlement/consider ADR (para 3)
    - support the “efficient management” of any proceedings and reduce costs (para 3)
    - “stocktake” and review their respective positions after following the PD by exchanging information, to see if proceedings can be avoided and to “at least” narrow the issues (para 12).

    Paras 6(a) & (c) oblige a Claimant to enter into a meaningful dialogue with a Defendant at an early stage by imposing specific obligations to:
    - explain the claim in a Letter before Claim, and
    - provide relevant core documents.

    The only 'core document' you have enclosed is a mock-up of a claim form in the name of myself, the registered keeper. This will be drawn to the attention of the presiding Judge at the County Court Business Centre and then at my local Court, should a spurious claim of yours manage to get that far.

    Since you have no cause of action against me as registered keeper, should you proceed with a claim I will file a counter-claim for not less than £500 in compensation for distress caused by your unwarranted demands arising from misuse of the data you obtained from the DVLA for one purpose, yet are now processing it for another purpose not covered by the KADOE regulations.

    I am aware that when a counter-claim was heard in D6GM2199 Civil Enforcement Ltd v Mr B, at Bury County Court in May 2017, DJ Osborne found that the £500 sum claimed by the data subject defendant was not unreasonable. He accepted the argument regarding data misuse under the Data Protection Act 1998 (DPA); he accepted the tort of damages and stated that he was disappointed in the claimant bringing an unfounded case. Punitive costs of £405 were granted for unreasonable behaviour, and were paid by your company in addition to the £500 claim.

    Further, I would like to draw your Legal Department's attention to a landmark 2017 judgment at the Leeds County Court, 3SP00071 - Blamires v LGO. This was a claim for damages including a matter of a breach of the DPA, for which an award of £2,500 was granted as compensation for distress. As is now relatively well known, the DPA’s original drafting appeared to preclude compensation for distress alone, but the Court of Appeal, in Vidal Hall & ors v Google [2015] EWCA Civ 311, it was held that this was contrary to the provisions of the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union and that, accordingly, there was a right under the DPA to claim compensation for “pure” distress.

    The award in Blamires was of “Vidal Hall” compensation, with the judge saying there was ''no doubt in my mind that the data breaches have caused distress to the claimant in their own rights as well as as a result of the consequences that flowed.'' The judge awarded a further £2,500 aggravated damages because of the manner in which the Defendant conducted its case, including the fact that, notwithstanding being told by the Claimant that its conduct/data was wrong, it took nearly two years for the Defendant to admit the mistake.

    I expect Civil Enforcement to now cancel this 'parking charge' and admit its mistake in attempting to misuse my data, and in trying to mislead me by suggesting that a registered keeper is liable for a non-POFA parking charge 'debt', and that I could be liable for escalated costs/legal fees. As you will be aware (or Wright Hassall can explain to you), the general costs rule in Small Claims is that there is no costs order.

    However, in support of my own counter-claim, I must remind you that under CPR Rule 27.14(2)(g):

    ''costs can be awarded where a party behaves unreasonably''.

    I refer Civil Enforcement to paragraph 16 of the Practice Direction – Pre-Action Conduct:
    ''a party who has not complied with its pre-action obligations can be ordered to pay costs (even if the party has succeeded in its claim/defence) and there is also a power to remit/increase interest.''

    I expect to hear from you within 14 days to confirm that the charge is cancelled. Should you fail to cancel this PCN and/or pursue a baseless claim without supplying any evidence of any breach of a relevant contract or relevant obligation, or photographs, or the contract, or your basis for pursuing a registered keeper outwith the POFA 2012, you may consider this adequate notice of my intention to sue Civil Enforcement Ltd, for the significant distress your actions have caused to a vulnerable family.

    All letters exchanged will be used in evidence in court.

    Finally, I will also submit that you have hereby been informed by this letter, that a passenger in the vehicle that day has a heart condition, and was taken ill by a prolonged bout of sickness.

    I need not explain further, other than to point out the fact that a person with a heart condition meets the definition of disability under the Equality Act 2010 (EA) and any delay in leaving was as a direct result of a medical emergency. Should you fail to cancel the charge, Civil Enforcement Ltd - and the person making the decision to proceed with a claim, whose name must appear on your letter of reply, along with their reasons for disregarding the EA - will be held corporately and personally liable for a failure to make a reasonable adjustment for a disabled person. This will of course add further costs, echoing Blamires - which also included a four figure claim for discrimination - in terms of the sum sought in compensation for distress and harassment under the EA.

    I reserve the right to include your client (landowner/agent) in any claim made, since that party remains jointly and severally liable for the conduct of its agents on their land.

    yours faithfully,



    your name (same person as the letter is addressed to)

    your address








    This is the letter I am referring too, my apologies for the confusion
    • malin96
    • By malin96 8th Oct 17, 7:44 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    malin96
    • #8
    • 8th Oct 17, 7:44 PM
    • #8
    • 8th Oct 17, 7:44 PM
    In regards to complaining to the dvla and the bpa. If you know the email I would complain too please let me know. Please forgive me for asking a lot.
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 8th Oct 17, 7:52 PM
    • 4,757 Posts
    • 3,107 Thanks
    KeithP
    • #9
    • 8th Oct 17, 7:52 PM
    • #9
    • 8th Oct 17, 7:52 PM
    In regards to complaining to the dvla and the bpa. If you know the email I would complain too please let me know. Please forgive me for asking a lot.
    Originally posted by malin96
    Post #9 in the NEWBIES thread has that information.
    .
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