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  • FIRST POST
    • cestas55
    • By cestas55 8th Oct 17, 1:55 PM
    • 7Posts
    • 1Thanks
    cestas55
    John Lewis guarantee limits & "cosmetic damage"
    • #1
    • 8th Oct 17, 1:55 PM
    John Lewis guarantee limits & "cosmetic damage" 8th Oct 17 at 1:55 PM
    PLEASE NOTE - I am no longer interested in replies to my post. I thought I would be getting some consumer law advice, but finding the comments rather silly. I spent £900 on a laptop that has vanishing key decals, and all I get is suggestions to learn touch typing and to paint letters in my neatest handwriting.


    Around 18 months ago I spent £900 on an Asus Zenbook from John Lewis, which came with the extended 3 years guarantee. The laptop is essentially fine, but annoyingly the letters on the keyboard have started to fade. Some commonly used keys like E A S O L and shift are blank or almost gone.

    Apparently the keys can be flipped out and new ones inserted, and I have bought a transparent keyboard cover for £10 to put a halt to further damage. This is first of several computers I have had without this issue, so I do not think it is me, it is a fault based on the quality of manufacture.

    I have contacted John Lewis customer support, but they are saying the problem is not covered by their guarantee, as the guarantee does not cover "cosmetic damage and/or non-functional parts which do not affect the normal use of the product including cabinet trim, scratches and rust". However I would say cosmetic damage is just that, where I scratch or chip the laptop, not something that is a manufacturing fault and effects the proper use of the laptop.

    Grateful if anyone has any thoughts on whether this problem should be covered by an extended manufacturer's guarantee. Also if I just pay to get new keys fitted, what are my options to get the cost of repair plus the cost of keyboard cover back?
    Last edited by cestas55; 08-10-2017 at 3:22 PM. Reason: getting out of here
Page 1
    • IAmWales
    • By IAmWales 8th Oct 17, 2:13 PM
    • 1,493 Posts
    • 3,124 Thanks
    IAmWales
    • #2
    • 8th Oct 17, 2:13 PM
    • #2
    • 8th Oct 17, 2:13 PM
    Does it affect your use of the laptop, do you not know where the keys are?

    I'd say this is wear and tear, have had it happen on pretty much every laptop I've had.

    You don't need to pay to have the keys replaced, buy them and do it yourself.
    • cestas55
    • By cestas55 8th Oct 17, 2:26 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    cestas55
    • #3
    • 8th Oct 17, 2:26 PM
    • #3
    • 8th Oct 17, 2:26 PM
    Yes, of course it affects use, the cover makes typing similar to my first computer, a ZX Spectrum back in the 80s with rubber keys. But if I don't use the cover I will just have blank squares soon for about 15 keys. Try covering up the 15 most used letters on your keyboard and see how frustrating it is!
    • Max3456
    • By Max3456 8th Oct 17, 2:38 PM
    • 38 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    Max3456
    • #4
    • 8th Oct 17, 2:38 PM
    • #4
    • 8th Oct 17, 2:38 PM
    I would fully expect such a problem to be covered by a warranty. Its not "cosmetic" it is a functional part of the product,and an expensive one at that. Keep your receipts and ask for reimbursement or a JL gift card.
    • k3lvc
    • By k3lvc 8th Oct 17, 2:45 PM
    • 1,866 Posts
    • 2,932 Thanks
    k3lvc
    • #5
    • 8th Oct 17, 2:45 PM
    • #5
    • 8th Oct 17, 2:45 PM
    I would fully expect such a problem to be covered by a warranty. Its not "cosmetic" it is a functional part of the product,and an expensive one at that. Keep your receipts and ask for reimbursement or a JL gift card.
    Originally posted by Max3456
    Seems there'll be disagreement on this then - I'd say cosmetic and with an easy solution (c. £15 for a complete replacement keyboard depending on exact model)

    If OP plays nicely rather than throwing 'rights' around I'd have thought a replacement could be sourced FOC from manufacturer
    • Keep pedalling
    • By Keep pedalling 8th Oct 17, 3:01 PM
    • 3,750 Posts
    • 4,016 Thanks
    Keep pedalling
    • #6
    • 8th Oct 17, 3:01 PM
    • #6
    • 8th Oct 17, 3:01 PM
    Sounds like the keyboard is subject to heavy use, so wear and tear. Can easily fixed with replacement keys or a perminant marker pen
    • cestas55
    • By cestas55 8th Oct 17, 3:03 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    cestas55
    • #7
    • 8th Oct 17, 3:03 PM
    • #7
    • 8th Oct 17, 3:03 PM
    Nope, just regular use

    A marker pen? On a £900 laptop.

    There I was thinking I would get some smart advice.
    Last edited by cestas55; 08-10-2017 at 3:06 PM. Reason: more to add
    • mije1983
    • By mije1983 8th Oct 17, 3:14 PM
    • 2,559 Posts
    • 18,334 Thanks
    mije1983
    • #8
    • 8th Oct 17, 3:14 PM
    • #8
    • 8th Oct 17, 3:14 PM
    For future info if anyone comes across the thread with the same question. They can then make sense of the replies.

    Around 18 months ago I spent £900 on an Asus Zenbook from John Lewis, which came with the extended 3 years guarantee. The laptop is essentially fine, but annoyingly the letters on the keyboard have started to fade. Some commonly used keys like E A S O L and shift are blank or almost gone.

    Apparently the keys can be flipped out and new ones inserted, and I have bought a transparent keyboard cover for £10 to put a halt to further damage. This is first of several computers I have had without this issue, so I do not think it is me, it is a fault based on the quality of manufacture.

    I have contacted John Lewis customer support, but they are saying the problem is not covered by their guarantee, as the guarantee does not cover "cosmetic damage and/or non-functional parts which do not affect the normal use of the product including cabinet trim, scratches and rust". However I would say cosmetic damage is just that, where I scratch or chip the laptop, not something that is a manufacturing fault and effects the proper use of the laptop.

    Grateful if anyone has any thoughts on whether this problem should be covered by an extended manufacturer's guarantee. Also if I just pay to get new keys fitted, what are my options to get the cost of repair plus the cost of keyboard cover back?

    • Keep pedalling
    • By Keep pedalling 8th Oct 17, 3:40 PM
    • 3,750 Posts
    • 4,016 Thanks
    Keep pedalling
    • #9
    • 8th Oct 17, 3:40 PM
    • #9
    • 8th Oct 17, 3:40 PM
    Nope, just regular use

    A marker pen? On a £900 laptop.

    There I was thinking I would get some smart advice.
    Originally posted by cestas55
    It was a £900 lap top when you bought it, now it's just another second hand device worth a fraction of that. New keys are easily available at low cost, but if you want to do it for less them use a marker pen, unless you are that strung up about appearance.
    • stuartJo1989
    • By stuartJo1989 8th Oct 17, 3:42 PM
    • 127 Posts
    • 105 Thanks
    stuartJo1989
    Nobody in this thread has been horrible to you in any way. Just offering practical solutions to an issue which is more than likely down to excessive use rather than a manufacturing fault.

    As it is over 6 months you can still exercise your consumer rights against John Lewis, but the burden of proof that a MANUFACTURING FAULT is present is on you. A fault report to that effect would enable you to get some sort of resolution, which may include:

    - A repair (they may just replace the keys as per advice you've been given)

    - A partial refund to take into account usage

    - A replacement (it will most likely be a refurbished model).

    I believe that the retailer reserves the right to pick the remedy as well..

    If the damage is simply due to wear and tear (or normal/excessive use) then you will have little recourse, aside from goodwill.

    This may end up in small claims if JL still refute your manufacturer fault claims even with a fault report. You can also take JL to court WITHOUT the report, but you may not get far if it is disputed and you have no evidence.

    You can also approach the manufacturer, but if they are saying that it is not covered under the warranty then there's not much more you can do... UNLESS you sift through the paperwork and find some conflicting info, or if you pay a lawyer to do it.
    • cestas55
    • By cestas55 8th Oct 17, 3:47 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    cestas55
    Where did I say people were being "horrible"?
    • unholyangel
    • By unholyangel 8th Oct 17, 3:58 PM
    • 11,392 Posts
    • 8,559 Thanks
    unholyangel
    I'd agree its cosmetic/natural wear & tear. Although it can be helped along by greasy/oily hands (some of which can be present naturally and others may be present due to various things our hands might come into contact with such as moisturiser) or using cleaning products on it.

    In fact its so natural, you can buy a sheet of "qwerty" stickers for about £2.

    It is most definitely cosmetic though - it doesn't affect the functionality of the laptop or keys.

    As its more than 6 months, the burden would be on you not only to prove that the goods fail to conform to contract, but also that the failure is inherent (and hasn't been due to damage/normal wear & tear/misuse).
    Money doesn't solve poverty.....it creates it.
    • stuartJo1989
    • By stuartJo1989 8th Oct 17, 4:00 PM
    • 127 Posts
    • 105 Thanks
    stuartJo1989
    Where did I say people were being "horrible"?
    Originally posted by cestas55
    Jog on mate.

    I've just made a whole post on what your consumer rights are and you've replied with a one liner questioning that tiny bit of my post!

    A simple "thank you Stuart for pointing me in the right direction" would suffice next time...
    • scd3scd4
    • By scd3scd4 8th Oct 17, 4:02 PM
    • 449 Posts
    • 364 Thanks
    scd3scd4
    Must admit I would go on Ebay and buy a replacement or recovered set and be done. Sometimes I don't have the energy to argue with these dopes.


    18 months is hardy old and its reasonably to expect the keys not to fade with normal use. Its not cosmetic and for most/average person it is impossible to use with most/many of the letters missing.


    I remember something similar happened to a cooker I had..........I just said H&S and they sent a nice new set in the post but I don't suppose that will work here! ;-]


    JL generally have a good history of decent customer care.
    Last edited by scd3scd4; 08-10-2017 at 4:13 PM.
    • meer53
    • By meer53 8th Oct 17, 4:06 PM
    • 8,869 Posts
    • 12,879 Thanks
    meer53
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/ENGLISH-US-TRANSPARENT-KEYBOARD-STICKERS-WHITE-LETTERS-/290459839379?hash=item43a0c16b93:m:m8LDKgIOQv-GPV9Bkvl2QUQ
    • cestas55
    • By cestas55 8th Oct 17, 4:06 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    cestas55
    Jog on mate. I've just made a whole post on what your consumer rights are and you've replied with a one liner questioning that tiny bit of my post!
    Originally posted by stuartJo1989
    Well you did open with that sweeping statement! Rather undermined what was to follow, but thank you for the detail.
    • scd3scd4
    • By scd3scd4 8th Oct 17, 4:20 PM
    • 449 Posts
    • 364 Thanks
    scd3scd4
    http://www.laptopkey.com/BrowseKeys.php/Asus
    • cestas55
    • By cestas55 8th Oct 17, 4:23 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    cestas55
    laptopkey.com/BrowseKeys.php/Asus
    Originally posted by scd3scd4
    Thank you.
    • stuartJo1989
    • By stuartJo1989 8th Oct 17, 4:47 PM
    • 127 Posts
    • 105 Thanks
    stuartJo1989
    Well you did open with that sweeping statement! Rather undermined what was to follow, but thank you for the detail.
    Originally posted by cestas55
    It didn't undermine my integrity in relation to:

    1. Sticking up for others when their contributions (practical ideas) are criticised as being "silly posts".

    2. Spending a good 10 minutes writing a post which contained relevant information which could help someone get started with their laptop issue.

    So I'm happy
    • cestas55
    • By cestas55 8th Oct 17, 4:57 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    cestas55
    2. Spending a good 10 minutes writing a post
    Originally posted by stuartJo1989
    Your feedback on the post is appreciated Stuart
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