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    • McTaggus
    • By McTaggus 8th Oct 17, 1:12 PM
    • 233Posts
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    McTaggus
    Right of Access Shared Driveway
    • #1
    • 8th Oct 17, 1:12 PM
    Right of Access Shared Driveway 8th Oct 17 at 1:12 PM
    Hi There,

    I hope you are all enjoying the weekend!

    I was hoping someone might be able to lend some advice. Our house has a shared driveway area with our attached neighbours. The driveway is one car in width, and extends from our back door to their front door and then out onto the road. Ownership of the driveway is split directly down the middle of the driveway (they have the section adjoining the road, we cross their section of the driveway to reach the road). We benefit from the following right of access as per the land registry records:

    Subject to paying 50% of the cost of the maintenance of the accessway and roof over it forming part of the retained land a right of way for the Transferee with or without vehicles at all times and for all purposes over and along the accessway delineated on the plan referred to in the First Schedule and thereon coloured brown

    We haven't had any issues with this previously, as the tenants in the attached house have never owned a car, therefore its never been an issue in terms of getting our car in and out of the driveway (our section is at the back of the driveway). However, they have now decided that they want to buy a car and park it outside their house, which would effectively block us from being able to get in or out freely.

    Does the right of access provision from the LR mean that they are not permitted to obstruct our access with their car? Our solicitor, when we bought the house, was of the view that this couldn't be obstructed, however I just want to check that I've been correctly informed before I raise it to them / their landlord if they start being their usual aggressive selves about anything and everything.

    Truly appreciate any help you can lend! Thanks in advance!!

    McTaggus
Page 1
    • societys child
    • By societys child 8th Oct 17, 1:33 PM
    • 4,892 Posts
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    societys child
    • #2
    • 8th Oct 17, 1:33 PM
    • #2
    • 8th Oct 17, 1:33 PM
    a right of way for the Transferee with or without vehicles at all times and for all purposes over and along the accessway
    "at all times" suggests to me that they can't park or block access at any time.

    Think your solicitor is correct.

    • PasturesNew
    • By PasturesNew 8th Oct 17, 1:41 PM
    • 60,983 Posts
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    PasturesNew
    • #3
    • 8th Oct 17, 1:41 PM
    • #3
    • 8th Oct 17, 1:41 PM
    They cannot park their car there if it prevents you from having your rights to pass/repass with your car, or on foot etc.

    Technically speaking, they shouldn't even stop on the driveway to load/unload, but if they weren't doing it often/long and it didn't affect you then you might let that go. But, they can't park on the driveway.

    The shared driveway is there to enable both houses to get there/back, not to park or use it for anything other than passing over it. They also couldn't, say, have their kids playing there, nor host a BBQ afternoon. It's for passing over as often as you like to get to/from your property - and nothing else.
    • McTaggus
    • By McTaggus 8th Oct 17, 1:50 PM
    • 233 Posts
    • 310 Thanks
    McTaggus
    • #4
    • 8th Oct 17, 1:50 PM
    • #4
    • 8th Oct 17, 1:50 PM
    Sincerest thanks to both of you for such a quick response, it's truly appreciated!!

    PasturesNew, we have always tried to be somewhat flexible - I have never taken exception to his elderly mother parking on it for an hour or so at the weekends, but was dreading a scenario where I couldn't actually get in and out of my driveway because they were parked there all day every day....!

    Again, thank you!
    • ProDave
    • By ProDave 8th Oct 17, 2:06 PM
    • 451 Posts
    • 527 Thanks
    ProDave
    • #5
    • 8th Oct 17, 2:06 PM
    • #5
    • 8th Oct 17, 2:06 PM
    I assume both houses actually have somewhere to park other than the shared access bit, so that is where they should park if they choose to have a car. The fact it may be a little further from their door is just too bad.

    The landlord should make the tenants aware of the rights and responsibilities of the shared access part.

    If they do block it, I would make a point of choosing to go out and forcing them to move, and keep coming and going and forcing them to move until they get the message.
    • scd3scd4
    • By scd3scd4 8th Oct 17, 2:12 PM
    • 542 Posts
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    scd3scd4
    • #6
    • 8th Oct 17, 2:12 PM
    • #6
    • 8th Oct 17, 2:12 PM
    I had a work mate with the same problem. he tried to explain and be nice............that never worked so he woke them up at 4.30am a few times on the way to work to get the car out and then started to block the drive himself. They soon got the message.
    • G_M
    • By G_M 8th Oct 17, 2:21 PM
    • 42,303 Posts
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    G_M
    • #7
    • 8th Oct 17, 2:21 PM
    • #7
    • 8th Oct 17, 2:21 PM
    Do you know the owner?

    If tthe tenants theselves are uncooperative have a word with their landlord.

    Strictly speaking their tenancy agreement should reflect the Land Registry and make clear the can use, but not block, the drive. But frequently TAs don't sufficiently reflect relevant terms of insurers, leases, covenants etc.
    • McTaggus
    • By McTaggus 8th Oct 17, 3:30 PM
    • 233 Posts
    • 310 Thanks
    McTaggus
    • #8
    • 8th Oct 17, 3:30 PM
    • #8
    • 8th Oct 17, 3:30 PM
    Thanks to all for the responses. I'm hoping to meet the owner next week, so if this isn't resolved, will be raising it to him then. I have also advised they contact their landlord if they need clarity as to the situation.

    Thanks again all, and have a great rest of your weekend!

    McTaggus
    • G_M
    • By G_M 8th Oct 17, 6:05 PM
    • 42,303 Posts
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    G_M
    • #9
    • 8th Oct 17, 6:05 PM
    • #9
    • 8th Oct 17, 6:05 PM
    If you've spoken to them and hey either don't believe you or understand, have you shown them a copy of the Title documents for both your, and their, properties?
    • McTaggus
    • By McTaggus 9th Oct 17, 11:17 AM
    • 233 Posts
    • 310 Thanks
    McTaggus
    Thank you G_M. Spoke to them again today, and their LL has confirmed that they cannot park outside their house and block our right of access. She's still saying she doesn't believe the LL (and his tenants) can't do what they like with a driveway that the LL owns and that she would like to check it with a solicitor, so I am going to do as you suggest and print a copy of the title documents for both properties, so she can expend the money to be told the same thing...!

    Thank you as always for your help!
    • ProDave
    • By ProDave 9th Oct 17, 2:45 PM
    • 451 Posts
    • 527 Thanks
    ProDave
    Just put plan B into operation.

    Every time they park, blocking your access, decide you need to leave or enter your property. Just drive up to their parked car and sit there tooting your horn until the move.

    Repeat until they get fed up keep moving.
    • moneyistooshorttomention
    • By moneyistooshorttomention 9th Oct 17, 3:30 PM
    • 14,232 Posts
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    moneyistooshorttomention
    Just put plan B into operation.

    Every time they park, blocking your access, decide you need to leave or enter your property. Just drive up to their parked car and sit there tooting your horn until the move.

    Repeat until they get fed up keep moving.
    Originally posted by ProDave
    I would tend to agree with this.

    I've got a problematic neighbour as regards blocking ROW (amongst other stuff...).

    Plan A is to have any of my visitors needing access to just sit there tooting their horns until they unblock my access.

    Plan B is to just have any of my visitors parking right behind "her" cars etc and blocking them in and vanishing.

    I've not needed to implement either strategy yet - but they are in reserve in case of need.
    New Year's Resolution already made -

    Don't get mad....get firm ...
    • HampshireH
    • By HampshireH 9th Oct 17, 7:58 PM
    • 266 Posts
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    HampshireH
    They don't believe their landlord and are willing to pay for a solicitor? How bizarre.

    I could understand if the 'LL disputed it. However any legal action they may take and generating dispute won't help the 'LL later down the line.

    I wonder if the LL knows they are seeking legal advice against his advice.
    • chappers
    • By chappers 9th Oct 17, 8:13 PM
    • 2,948 Posts
    • 1,701 Thanks
    chappers
    Just start an all out war. Was in a similar position years ago.
    All started when a friend went to leave and was blocked in by our neighbour, who became abusive and threw paint over my friends van. the whole thing escalated to the point where if my friend would drive down our drive the neighbour would park over the front of the drive just to be a pain.
    Well they certainly came off the worse in the long run one night my friend turned up turned off their water and sheared the head of the stop tap off too. One time he turned up early to pick me up to go fishing and we stuck three sprats and a squid down the fresh air intake on the bonnet of their brand new Morris Ital. Squirted olive oil in their door locks so they all seized up in the winter.
    Let your creative juices flow
    • McTaggus
    • By McTaggus 10th Nov 17, 4:26 PM
    • 233 Posts
    • 310 Thanks
    McTaggus
    Wow........ I'm glad not to have had to resort to all out war!! Thankfully its all sorted, and she has backed down completely! Creative juices can flow elsewhere instead
    • moneyistooshorttomention
    • By moneyistooshorttomention 10th Nov 17, 4:37 PM
    • 14,232 Posts
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    moneyistooshorttomention
    Congratulations that that is sorted

    As you say - it does detract from having one's Life Energies (aka "creative juices") available for getting on with one's Life/doing something more important or enjoyable
    New Year's Resolution already made -

    Don't get mad....get firm ...
    • melanzana
    • By melanzana 10th Nov 17, 4:47 PM
    • 2,443 Posts
    • 6,809 Thanks
    melanzana
    Whenever these types of threads are posted I seem to have great difficulty picturing the situation in my head.

    Just me obviously. Back doors, front doors ROW, shared drives all that. Gah.

    Anyone up for drawing a picture for me!
    • Mutton Geoff
    • By Mutton Geoff 10th Nov 17, 5:04 PM
    • 998 Posts
    • 1,038 Thanks
    Mutton Geoff
    I once owned a house with a shared drive, the neighbour owned the land, he needed it for pedestrian access only whereas it led to my garage around the back of my house. His garage was at the front of his house. I had right of way over it.


    The day I moved in, he introduced himself and told me to move the furniture van off it. They had to park over the road and carry my stuff over the road on a blind bend.


    Six months later, he was divorcing and selling up. New neighbour moved in and started complaining when I washed my car and his driveway was getting soapy water on it!


    I couldn't wait to move and have always chosen houses with my own private parking ever since.
    Compensations/Refunds from Banks & Institutions - £4,165 | Stooz Profits - £7,636 | Quidco - £4,014

    All with a big thank you to Martin and MSE.com from Mutton Geoff!
    • McTaggus
    • By McTaggus 10th Nov 17, 5:30 PM
    • 233 Posts
    • 310 Thanks
    McTaggus
    Melanzana.... the house is a huge old house, that was subdivided into three properties originally. The previous owners of our house, bought one of the other properties and added to their own. Therefore if you think about the total footprint being a square, ours is an L shape in that square which occupies the whole of the right side of that square, and the entire bottom half of that square. Our neighbours property occupies the top left quadrant of that square.

    Running the entire the left hand of that square, there is a car port / driveway. Their front door opens onto that. Our back door (previously the front door of the subdivided property at the back) also opens onto that driveway, but the back half of the driveway. I can't be bothered to try to work out a line image, but if you treat the below as an illustration - CP indicates the shared Car Port / Driveway, NH indicates where the attached neighbours house is, OH denotes where our house is, DOOR indicates where each of our houses opens to the shared area.

    CPCPCP NHNHNHNH OHOHOHOH
    CPCPCP DOORNHNH OHOHOHOH
    CPCPCP NHNHNHNH OHOHOHOH
    CPCPCP NHNHNHNH OHOHOHOH
    CPCPCP OHOHOHOH OHOHOHOH
    CPCPCP DOOROHOH OHOHOHOH
    CPCPCP OHOHOHOH OHOHOHOH
    CPCPCP OHOHOHOH OHOHOHOH

    Don't know if that helps you visualise Just to add, the lane runs along the front of the house at the top of the "visualisation" above... hence requiring access over the whole driveway to get out.
    Last edited by McTaggus; 10-11-2017 at 5:37 PM.
    • moneyistooshorttomention
    • By moneyistooshorttomention 10th Nov 17, 5:50 PM
    • 14,232 Posts
    • 38,555 Thanks
    moneyistooshorttomention


    The day I moved in, he introduced himself and told me to move the furniture van off it. They had to park over the road and carry my stuff over the road on a blind bend.


    .
    Originally posted by Mutton Geoff
    One does wonder what is (apparently) so hard to understand about ROWs in the circumstances:
    a. One is allowed to park on a ROW for loading/unloading purposes (eg moving in).
    b. One is NOT allowed to park on a ROW as a "place to park" and stay put (ie in lieu of a parking space).

    It's hardly rocket science - but ...yep...my own next door neighbour can't seem to click to that - and thinks different rules apply to me to those that apply to herShe seems to think her visitors can park/stay put (which they can't) on the one hand but mine are (according to her) not allowed to park just long enough to load/unload. Duh!
    Last edited by moneyistooshorttomention; 10-11-2017 at 5:52 PM.
    New Year's Resolution already made -

    Don't get mad....get firm ...
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