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  • FIRST POST
    • mae
    • By mae 8th Oct 17, 9:30 AM
    • 1,449Posts
    • 818Thanks
    mae
    Valiant and Worcester Boiler Quotes
    • #1
    • 8th Oct 17, 9:30 AM
    Valiant and Worcester Boiler Quotes 8th Oct 17 at 9:30 AM
    Hi I need a new boiler because ours is old and has broken the last few winters and also to accomadate a new extension we will be having next year.

    So we have had 3 quotes (all local small firms) and I'd appreciate any guidance before we make a decision which one to go with. All quotes include fitting (doesn't need to be moved as its in the garage) and includes magnetic filter and vat. They will be using existing controls.

    1) Valiant ecoTEC plus 424 open vent boiler £1800
    or Valiant ecoTEC plus 430 open vent for £1900.

    2)Worcester Bosch 24Ri regular boiler £2085

    3) Worcester 30cdi £2695
    or 40cdi £3195

    The house is a 4 bedroom detached and we will be adding a ground floor extension on the rear right across the house with under floor heating.
    Last edited by mae; 08-10-2017 at 9:34 AM.
Page 2
    • EssexExile
    • By EssexExile 9th Oct 17, 9:17 AM
    • 2,482 Posts
    • 1,656 Thanks
    EssexExile

    ...For me its not always about going with what Which say is the best........I use it to avoid the real rubbish and as a guide.The report is more than just how is the best and worse. It has plenty of information and helpful tips.
    Originally posted by scd3scd4
    Yes, the way to use Which? is to read the words, not just the ratings, they sometimes think something is unimportant when for you it would be critical. They once recommended a Black & Decker drill even though it failed before the end of their tests! Your post also highlights another longstanding problem with Which?, it puts Vaillant above Glowworm yet they are the same company. Years ago they had a Hotpoint washing machine as best buy & a Creda as a "must avoid", they were the same machine with different badges!
    Tall, dark & handsome. Well two out of three ain't bad.
    • scd3scd4
    • By scd3scd4 9th Oct 17, 9:44 AM
    • 542 Posts
    • 431 Thanks
    scd3scd4
    Yes, the way to use Which? is to read the words, not just the ratings, they sometimes think something is unimportant when for you it would be critical. They once recommended a Black & Decker drill even though it failed before the end of their tests! Your post also highlights another longstanding problem with Which?, it puts Vaillant above Glowworm yet they are the same company. Years ago they had a Hotpoint washing machine as best buy & a Creda as a "must avoid", they were the same machine with different badges!
    Originally posted by EssexExile
    Ok but the engineer who fixes them for a living said he rated Vaillant best. He did not say Vaillant and Glow-worm.

    Plus being "owned" is not really the same is it?

    Glow-worm are sort of like Vaillant Groupís budget boiler.
    Last edited by scd3scd4; 09-10-2017 at 9:47 AM.
    • mae
    • By mae 9th Oct 17, 10:04 AM
    • 1,449 Posts
    • 818 Thanks
    mae
    How many radiators do you have or will end up with?
    Originally posted by Alex1983
    At present we have 10 radiators. When we have the extension we will have 11 radiators in total and 45 sqm of underfloor heating.
    • Alex1983
    • By Alex1983 9th Oct 17, 10:29 AM
    • 668 Posts
    • 376 Thanks
    Alex1983
    Very very rough guide, 1.5kw per rad and 3kw for hot water. So you need 19.5kw without your underfloor.

    Hopefully someone will correct me because I’m not sure with underfloor, I’ve never fitted it but I’m think they say 100w per m. Now if that’s correct you need to allow 4.5kw for the underfloor, making a very rough total requirement 24kw.

    There is a lot that goes into heat loss calculations and they need to measure your requirements accurately but if the 24kw is correct then ignore the cdi 42kw, it will hugely oversized.

    Are they converting to a sealed system for the quote 3? do you have radiator pipes under concrete floors? if you haven’t I would get them to price the Vaillant as a sealed system, the Vaillant 630 is made for a sealed system. If you have pipe work in concrete floors I would leave as a open system and ignore quote 3.
    • J B
    • By J B 9th Oct 17, 3:26 PM
    • 2,383 Posts
    • 774 Thanks
    J B
    Just reread the Which magazine as I am now at home. Nothing in there about 5 and 3 stars for Worcester and Vaillant. Oct 2017.
    Originally posted by scd3scd4
    Do you want to re-read that?
    I'm not home now so can't check, but, IIRC, in the ratings column there was a line for reliability and Worcester says ***** whereas Vailant says ***

    Doesn't it??

    • scd3scd4
    • By scd3scd4 9th Oct 17, 3:58 PM
    • 542 Posts
    • 431 Thanks
    scd3scd4
    Do you want to re-read that?
    I'm not home now so can't check, but, IIRC, in the ratings column there was a line for reliability and Worcester says ***** whereas Vailant says ***

    Doesn't it??

    Originally posted by J B
    Happy to..........

    WB 92%
    Viessmann 84%
    Vaillant 78%

    Yes the reliability is 3 and 5. But no one is judging the product on JUST that. We are talking about a product as a whole. Very few people buy a product on reliability and nothing else.

    Did you miss the 5 star for customer score
    5 star for ease of service.
    5 star for ease of fixing
    5 star for build quality
    5 star for fixing a common fault
    4 recommendation
    4 availability of parts and spares..........all for Vaillant????

    So which is not really saying they are 3 star are they. If you are implying they are a poor brand then thats not reflected in the whole Which report?

    And in support they are rated on many other sites and by most engineers.
    Last edited by scd3scd4; 09-10-2017 at 4:16 PM.
    • J B
    • By J B 9th Oct 17, 7:19 PM
    • 2,383 Posts
    • 774 Thanks
    J B
    So which is not really saying they are 3 star are they.
    Originally posted by scd3scd4
    Nope, indeed - I was merely referring to reliability.

    In 2009 we purchased a pair of semis to do holiday rentals.
    No1 had a knackered oil boiler
    No2 already had a Worcester Bosch 25si (?) LPG boiler

    As we had one functioning boiler, we decided to stick with LPG and installed a Vailant eco-tec (?) boiler in No1

    We sold the cottages this August.
    During our ownership we had serviced the Worcester every year and the only problem we had was when there was a bird stuck in the balanced flue!
    The Vailant caused us no end of problems
    We had a new multi port valve inside which was a couple of hundred quid
    We had to have a new printed circuit board (*) which was another three hundred quid

    Maybe we were unlucky

    * = the local plumbers merchant had one of these PCB's in stock - the plumber commented that was maybe because there was a demand!!
    • Alex1983
    • By Alex1983 9th Oct 17, 7:40 PM
    • 668 Posts
    • 376 Thanks
    Alex1983
    J B I’m not going to dispute your problems with your Vaillant but I can honestly say Ive only fitted a handful of PCB’s on Vaillants in 15 years. I have 1 in my van as stock and it has got 2014 printed on it which means I haven’t fitted 1 since then. I have 4 Worcester PCB’s in my van. The thing is your now put off by Vaillant because of your bad experience which is understandable but it’s unusual.
    • SuzieSue
    • By SuzieSue 9th Oct 17, 8:41 PM
    • 3,703 Posts
    • 3,985 Thanks
    SuzieSue
    It also has ideal as 4th best which is crazy they have made some of the most unrealiable boilers of the last 15 years.
    Originally posted by Alex1983
    Everyone says that about Ideal but me and my neighbours have all got Ideal Classics which are over 20 years old and we have had very few problems with them all that time. My friend has an Ideal Isar which is almost 10 years old and has never had a problem with it.
    • southcoastrgi
    • By southcoastrgi 9th Oct 17, 8:57 PM
    • 5,250 Posts
    • 3,056 Thanks
    southcoastrgi
    Worcester are a £300 boiler that costs £1000 & they use the £700 to market them
    The only thing which boiler recommendations are any good for is wrapping up your fish & chips
    I'm only here while I wait for Corrie to start.

    You get no BS from me & if I think you are wrong I WILL tell you.
    • Alex1983
    • By Alex1983 9th Oct 17, 9:00 PM
    • 668 Posts
    • 376 Thanks
    Alex1983
    Suziesue Ideal made good reliable boilers 15 years ago and prior. The classic and Mexico are some of the most reliable boilers made. Most of there efforts since have been terrible and the fact that your friends isar has had no trouble in 10 years is a miracle.
    • scd3scd4
    • By scd3scd4 10th Oct 17, 9:01 AM
    • 542 Posts
    • 431 Thanks
    scd3scd4
    Worcester are a £300 boiler that costs £1000 & they use the £700 to market them
    The only thing which boiler recommendations are any good for is wrapping up your fish & chips
    Originally posted by southcoastrgi
    You keep enjoying ya fish and chips.........no peas??

    And I will keep getting nice reliable products... ;-]
    • Chanes
    • By Chanes 10th Oct 17, 8:53 PM
    • 845 Posts
    • 524 Thanks
    Chanes
    I know three gas fitters and they all favour Vaillant, I've had Vaillant fitted into two houses and they have been fine machines. I think WB would be decent too, we all have our preferences...as long as it works, it's good!
    • Hoof Hearted
    • By Hoof Hearted 10th Oct 17, 9:14 PM
    • 2,010 Posts
    • 1,890 Thanks
    Hoof Hearted
    We had a Vaillant Ecotec installed 5 years ago and it hasn't missed a beat. It is regularly serviced by a boiler anorak (carries pictures of boilers around on his phone) and it has performed faultlessly. I think he changed a filter last time but other than that, basic service costs only.
    Je suis sabot...
    • bris
    • By bris 10th Oct 17, 10:42 PM
    • 7,093 Posts
    • 6,109 Thanks
    bris
    Which are a commercial enterprise, advertisement generates huge revenue for them, can they really be impartial?


    As for Vokera which they hate well I install them in my clients and my own rental properties. The Easyheat plus range (actually targeted for landlords) give a 5 year warranty and are half the price or the top rated boilers. So far no problems and in 5 years time they will already have paid for themselves.


    I also don't see any Baxi recommendations and yet they are also highly rated, my 105e is 15 years old now and still running strong, It's had a PCB replaced about 5 years as its only problem.
    • vw100
    • By vw100 10th Oct 17, 10:59 PM
    • 112 Posts
    • 54 Thanks
    vw100
    I would go for a Valiant over a Wocester Bosch, but I would seriously look into Intergas as a close contender if I was choosing a new boiler now. Needless to say the current property has a Ariston and it been going strong for 10 years, with only a pump failure once.
    • scd3scd4
    • By scd3scd4 11th Oct 17, 10:10 AM
    • 542 Posts
    • 431 Thanks
    scd3scd4
    "Which" goes on the maths nothing more. Anymore than saying you know a lady who is 95 smoked 60 all her life. Proves nothing.

    I had a Lantra for 7 years. I abused that car. Missed servicing and lots more. Never let me down and passed ever mot until the last one. Proves nothing about all Lantras.

    No one really picks a manufacture on its own do they???..........you look at models too.

    I am looking at a new TV, Samsung........I will narrow down what model fits my needs.

    Which is not a BIble to most sensible people it's just a guide. It does not need all people to agree its been going successfully for many years.
    Last edited by scd3scd4; 11-10-2017 at 11:59 AM.
    • qsk
    • By qsk 11th Oct 17, 11:34 AM
    • 244 Posts
    • 130 Thanks
    qsk
    I also don't see any Baxi recommendations and yet they are also highly rated, my 105e is 15 years old now and still running strong, It's had a PCB replaced about 5 years as its only problem.
    Originally posted by bris
    I would say you are very lucky. I used to have a Baxi 130He, bigger brother of 105e. It gave me nothing but trouble every year after 7 years. Every year before Christmas, I started to worry that it could go wrong, and surely it did. I had to call help at least once a year and Baxi engineers, which are kind and friendly by the way, nearly replaced every component that could be replaced... New problems arise still. In the end, I could not bear the stress and had it replaced, even though the heat exchanger was replaced the year before.

    Googing Baxi, I am not alone...
    https://thatcanadiangirl.co.uk/2007/03/13/the-baxi-boiler-from-hell/
    • chappers
    • By chappers 11th Oct 17, 3:06 PM
    • 2,948 Posts
    • 1,701 Thanks
    chappers
    To answer your question OP. Any of those boilers would be sufficient for your needs and are both made by decent manufacturers.
    Everyone has their favourites, whether that be homeowners , heating engineers or even which. for every good story you will hear a bad one.
    But Worcester and vaillant are both up there at the top of the pile.
    • chappers
    • By chappers 11th Oct 17, 3:11 PM
    • 2,948 Posts
    • 1,701 Thanks
    chappers
    To answer your question OP. Any of those boilers would be sufficient for your needs and are both made by decent manufacturers.
    Everyone has their favourites, whether that be homeowners , heating engineers or even which. for every good story you will hear a bad one.
    But Worcester and vaillant are both up there at the top of the pile.
    Whichever one you chose, you will probably already realise that you are being ripped off.
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