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  • FIRST POST
    • Moogles44
    • By Moogles44 8th Oct 17, 8:49 AM
    • 100Posts
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    Moogles44
    "Wardrobing" - wearing then retuning - anyone found an answer?
    • #1
    • 8th Oct 17, 8:49 AM
    "Wardrobing" - wearing then retuning - anyone found an answer? 8th Oct 17 at 8:49 AM
    Have any other sellers found an answer to this , what I have found is a real increasing over the last year, of people wearing items that I've sold them and then returning them as unworn ( usually with armpit stains or other stains and smelling very used ).

    I'm trying to find tags or clips that also can be attached to the clothes that I see that can't be hidden up a sleeve or detached and then replaced to return after buyer has worn item out.

    I see America has these shark tags about 30p each which I would even get but you can't get them here . Has any one seen anything like that here or found an answer . Even over the last few months I've noticed this wardrobing increasing and the cost in postage lost is really adding up and it's just so wrong!
Page 1
    • ilikewatch
    • By ilikewatch 8th Oct 17, 9:49 AM
    • 1,042 Posts
    • 1,235 Thanks
    ilikewatch
    • #2
    • 8th Oct 17, 9:49 AM
    • #2
    • 8th Oct 17, 9:49 AM
    Assuming that you are talking about selling on eBay, I'm not sure how security tags would help. Dishonest buyers would simply remove the tag, wear the item, then raise a case stating that the item was damaged or not as described.
    • soolin
    • By soolin 8th Oct 17, 9:53 AM
    • 59,258 Posts
    • 42,001 Thanks
    soolin
    • #3
    • 8th Oct 17, 9:53 AM
    • #3
    • 8th Oct 17, 9:53 AM
    Have any other sellers found an answer to this , what I have found is a real increasing over the last year, of people wearing items that I've sold them and then returning them as unworn ( usually with armpit stains or other stains and smelling very used ).

    I'm trying to find tags or clips that also can be attached to the clothes that I see that can't be hidden up a sleeve or detached and then replaced to return after buyer has worn item out.

    I see America has these shark tags about 30p each which I would even get but you can't get them here . Has any one seen anything like that here or found an answer . Even over the last few months I've noticed this wardrobing increasing and the cost in postage lost is really adding up and it's just so wrong!
    Originally posted by Moogles44
    I follow various thrifting sites mainly aimed at US sellers and as you say they routinely tag their items as this wardrobing is quite common over there. It might be worth joining a few of the groups on Facebook , use the terms thrift or reselling to find them as there will be UK sellers who can offer suggestions. I know some have the Kimble machines that they use to attach a tag someone obvious, on the front of a sleeve or pocket of a dress where it can't be tucked in . Then they have labels printed that say something like ' this tag doesn't affect trying on an item but please don't remove until you are happy with garment as items cannot be returned if you change your mind once the label has been removed'.

    I suspect there is still no guarantee this will work on eBay, it might push people to do an INR, but it might stop the causal wardrober.

    Slightly off topic I accidentally joined a group that was mainly for US sellers who sold cruise wear (apparently a big thing in the US). The stories there were appalling, a lot of sellers leaving the market purely because it was apparently not uncommon for buyers to buy a dozen different items, take them all in a cruise and then send them back as SNAD. In the US apparently they don't have to offer change of mind returns so they end up paying huge amounts for return postage as the cost of these outfits is astronomical and the insurance needed cost lots of money.
    I'm the Board Guide for the Ebay Board , Charities Board , Dosh & Disability , Up Your Income and the Local MoneySaving-England board which means I'm a volunteer to help the boards run smoothly, and I can move posts there. However, do remember, board guides don't read every post. If you spot an illegal or inappropriate post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com (it's not part of my role to deal with this). Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com
    New to Forum? Guide
    • Moogles44
    • By Moogles44 8th Oct 17, 10:05 AM
    • 100 Posts
    • 17 Thanks
    Moogles44
    • #4
    • 8th Oct 17, 10:05 AM
    • #4
    • 8th Oct 17, 10:05 AM
    I follow various thrifting sites mainly aimed at US sellers and as you say they routinely tag their items as this wardrobing is quite common over there. It might be worth joining a few of the groups on Facebook , use the terms thrift or reselling to find them as there will be UK sellers who can offer suggestions. I know some have the Kimble machines that they use to attach a tag someone obvious, on the front of a sleeve or pocket of a dress where it can't be tucked in . Then they have labels printed that say something like ' this tag doesn't affect trying on an item but please don't remove until you are happy with garment as items cannot be returned if you change your mind once the label has been removed'.

    I suspect there is still no guarantee this will work on eBay, it might push people to do an INR, but it might stop the causal wardrober.

    Slightly off topic I accidentally joined a group that was mainly for US sellers who sold cruise wear (apparently a big thing in the US). The stories there were appalling, a lot of sellers leaving the market purely because it was apparently not uncommon for buyers to buy a dozen different items, take them all in a cruise and then send them back as SNAD. In the US apparently they don't have to offer change of mind returns so they end up paying huge amounts for return postage as the cost of these outfits is astronomical and the insurance needed cost lots of money.
    Originally posted by soolin
    Thank you , I'll try that on Facebook. That's so bad about US cruise wear sellers. They should use those shark tags - you have to cut them off.
    It really has escalated lately, less sales and more unworn -but actually worn, returns than ever. It's like people have less money so just doing returns fraud. I can't see how people can't see it's fraud. I just hope other sellers are on top of reporting these people so that they get banned. They should really get a police warning.
    • soolin
    • By soolin 8th Oct 17, 11:00 AM
    • 59,258 Posts
    • 42,001 Thanks
    soolin
    • #5
    • 8th Oct 17, 11:00 AM
    • #5
    • 8th Oct 17, 11:00 AM
    Thank you , I'll try that on Facebook. That's so bad about US cruise wear sellers. They should use those shark tags - you have to cut them off.
    It really has escalated lately, less sales and more unworn -but actually worn, returns than ever. It's like people have less money so just doing returns fraud. I can't see how people can't see it's fraud. I just hope other sellers are on top of reporting these people so that they get banned. They should really get a police warning.
    Originally posted by Moogles44
    I agree, I don't think people do see this as fraud.

    Only a couple of years back I saw an article in one of those online clothing blogs about clever ways to look good for Christmas for less, and one of their top suggestions was to buy something in December, wear it at Christmas and then return it as too big or too small. They even suggested people avoided certain stores as some stores were sneaky and had labels attached that were visible and couldn't be hidden- which they implied was unfair! Whilst people think this is a legitimate way to 'borrow' clothes the practice will continue.

    The cruise wear thing though was fascinating, I didn't even know that market existed. They were taking about dresses and outfits in excess of 1000$ each, so orders of 14 outfits all being returned was a huge risk. There was an informal group (by invitation only so I didn't join) that shared user names on ebay- so once someone returned a lot the user name was shared and they were blocked from all the sellers in the same line. There aren't many sellers left on ebay apparently so this actually worked - and sometimes stories were shared on the main site (anonymously) of someone who defrauded two sellers and then lost her rag entirely when she tried to buy from all the others for a Christmas cruise and found she was blocked by everyone. So less than 2 weeks before her trip she was suddenly faced with no clothes to pack.
    I'm the Board Guide for the Ebay Board , Charities Board , Dosh & Disability , Up Your Income and the Local MoneySaving-England board which means I'm a volunteer to help the boards run smoothly, and I can move posts there. However, do remember, board guides don't read every post. If you spot an illegal or inappropriate post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com (it's not part of my role to deal with this). Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com
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    • Hermia
    • By Hermia 8th Oct 17, 11:44 AM
    • 4,114 Posts
    • 11,054 Thanks
    Hermia
    • #6
    • 8th Oct 17, 11:44 AM
    • #6
    • 8th Oct 17, 11:44 AM
    Slightly off topic I accidentally joined a group that was mainly for US sellers who sold cruise wear (apparently a big thing in the US). The stories there were appalling, a lot of sellers leaving the market purely because it was apparently not uncommon for buyers to buy a dozen different items, take them all in a cruise and then send them back as SNAD. In the US apparently they don't have to offer change of mind returns so they end up paying huge amounts for return postage as the cost of these outfits is astronomical and the insurance needed cost lots of money.
    Originally posted by soolin
    I wonder if this attitude exists because US shops seem to allow returns for any reason. I watch haul vids on YouTube and it is fascinating to see how many Americans just constantly take items back (including items like toiletries). It seems normal for them to buy multiples of an item to try at home, choose one and then take the rest back. In the comments section the Americans are always surprised when the rest of us have sympathy for the shops. I can see how this attitude might spill over into people not thinking it is a big deal to treat an ebay seller like this.
    • Moogles44
    • By Moogles44 8th Oct 17, 11:55 AM
    • 100 Posts
    • 17 Thanks
    Moogles44
    • #7
    • 8th Oct 17, 11:55 AM
    • #7
    • 8th Oct 17, 11:55 AM
    I agree, I don't think people do see this as fraud.

    Only a couple of years back I saw an article in one of those online clothing blogs about clever ways to look good for Christmas for less, and one of their top suggestions was to buy something in December, wear it at Christmas and then return it as too big or too small. They even suggested people avoided certain stores as some stores were sneaky and had labels attached that were visible and couldn't be hidden- which they implied was unfair! Whilst people think this is a legitimate way to 'borrow' clothes the practice will continue.

    The cruise wear thing though was fascinating, I didn't even know that market existed. They were taking about dresses and outfits in excess of 1000$ each, so orders of 14 outfits all being returned was a huge risk. There was an informal group (by invitation only so I didn't join) that shared user names on ebay- so once someone returned a lot the user name was shared and they were blocked from all the sellers in the same line. There aren't many sellers left on ebay apparently so this actually worked - and sometimes stories were shared on the main site (anonymously) of someone who defrauded two sellers and then lost her rag entirely when she tried to buy from all the others for a Christmas cruise and found she was blocked by everyone. So less than 2 weeks before her trip she was suddenly faced with no clothes to pack.
    Originally posted by soolin
    That's so shocking that a public article actually tells people to do this ! yes be a criminal for xmas, it's fine! I don't usually sell at Xmas , I close shop due to excessive returns and more not very nice people than usual , but may have to this year as in a court case thing that's costing me over £5000 a month and I'm not turning to dishonesty over being skint so can't understand why others do .

    Great idea about sharing eBay names of people who do this. I was going to do that with a seller of similar stuff to me but it never happened in the end . I wonder if you could do that on Facebook or somewhere in the uk or whether it's against privacy of personal information regulation thing?
    • soolin
    • By soolin 8th Oct 17, 12:08 PM
    • 59,258 Posts
    • 42,001 Thanks
    soolin
    • #8
    • 8th Oct 17, 12:08 PM
    • #8
    • 8th Oct 17, 12:08 PM
    That's so shocking that a public article actually tells people to do this ! yes be a criminal for xmas, it's fine! I don't usually sell at Xmas , I close shop due to excessive returns and more not very nice people than usual , but may have to this year as in a court case thing that's costing me over £5000 a month and I'm not turning to dishonesty over being skint so can't understand why others do .

    Great idea about sharing eBay names of people who do this. I was going to do that with a seller of similar stuff to me but it never happened in the end . I wonder if you could do that on Facebook or somewhere in the uk or whether it's against privacy of personal information regulation thing?
    Originally posted by Moogles44
    I suspect it is potentially dodgy to operate a black list of any description, however, in very limited markets it is very common on facebook to have 'by invitation only' facebook sub groups just for that. It really only works in very limited markets as if the pool of sellers is too big then buyers may never come across an issue, but some markets (named glass or certain other highly collectable areas) it really can work as there may only be a handful of regular sellers.

    If you sell in any limited market then looking on ebay for groups, even US ones is a good idea. Just leave them running in the background rather than have them litter up your facebook feed, but dip in now and then to see if there are any issues rumbling about.
    Last edited by soolin; 08-10-2017 at 12:13 PM.
    I'm the Board Guide for the Ebay Board , Charities Board , Dosh & Disability , Up Your Income and the Local MoneySaving-England board which means I'm a volunteer to help the boards run smoothly, and I can move posts there. However, do remember, board guides don't read every post. If you spot an illegal or inappropriate post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com (it's not part of my role to deal with this). Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com
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    • Marcon
    • By Marcon 8th Oct 17, 3:13 PM
    • 175 Posts
    • 93 Thanks
    Marcon
    • #9
    • 8th Oct 17, 3:13 PM
    • #9
    • 8th Oct 17, 3:13 PM
    This won't work for business sellers, but might help private sellers. Measure the garment carefully and when you list it give both the manufacturer's size and the actual measurements. Then bag it up in white plastic bin liner on the outside of which you have written a message of thanks using an indelible pen. Then put sellotape round it in both directions, making it impossible for the buyer to open the package without wrecking the plastic bag. The really dishonest won't be deterred - they will simply go for SNAD - but the less determinedly fraudulent may think twice.
    • soolin
    • By soolin 8th Oct 17, 3:43 PM
    • 59,258 Posts
    • 42,001 Thanks
    soolin
    This won't work for business sellers, but might help private sellers. Measure the garment carefully and when you list it give both the manufacturer's size and the actual measurements. Then bag it up in white plastic bin liner on the outside of which you have written a message of thanks using an indelible pen. Then put sellotape round it in both directions, making it impossible for the buyer to open the package without wrecking the plastic bag. The really dishonest won't be deterred - they will simply go for SNAD - but the less determinedly fraudulent may think twice.
    Originally posted by Marcon
    I can't see how that helps at all though as a plastic bag is not going to stop someone, I assume everyone already sends clothes packed carefully in bags anyway and not just loose in the packaging .
    I'm the Board Guide for the Ebay Board , Charities Board , Dosh & Disability , Up Your Income and the Local MoneySaving-England board which means I'm a volunteer to help the boards run smoothly, and I can move posts there. However, do remember, board guides don't read every post. If you spot an illegal or inappropriate post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com (it's not part of my role to deal with this). Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com
    New to Forum? Guide
    • Moogles44
    • By Moogles44 8th Oct 17, 4:24 PM
    • 100 Posts
    • 17 Thanks
    Moogles44
    This won't work for business sellers, but might help private sellers. Measure the garment carefully and when you list it give both the manufacturer's size and the actual measurements. Then bag it up in white plastic bin liner on the outside of which you have written a message of thanks using an indelible pen. Then put sellotape round it in both directions, making it impossible for the buyer to open the package without wrecking the plastic bag. The really dishonest won't be deterred - they will simply go for SNAD - but the less determinedly fraudulent may think twice.
    Originally posted by Marcon
    I give all measurements in listings and all flaws . I wrap very well but people still have the right to do an unworn return if I'm a business seller unfortunately. That's fine but not when they've worn it which is very hard to prevent.
    • F&L
    • By F&L 8th Oct 17, 6:03 PM
    • 497 Posts
    • 546 Thanks
    F&L
    There was an article a few years ago about Bloomingdales adding these tags due to this type of problem. Ebay makes it too easy for buyers to do this and having free returns by claiming an item is faulty makes it even easier.

    I think having these tags will help but not stop the problem. If your listings make it clear about no returns being accepted if they're removed, it should deter someone thinking about doing it. It won't deter any serial abusers though.
    • Marcon
    • By Marcon 8th Oct 17, 7:14 PM
    • 175 Posts
    • 93 Thanks
    Marcon
    I can't see how that helps at all though as a plastic bag is not going to stop someone, I assume everyone already sends clothes packed carefully in bags anyway and not just loose in the packaging .
    Originally posted by soolin
    Because this way the buyer can't claim they 'didn't even open' the item....
    • soolin
    • By soolin 8th Oct 17, 7:39 PM
    • 59,258 Posts
    • 42,001 Thanks
    soolin
    Because this way the buyer can't claim they 'didn't even open' the item....
    Originally posted by Marcon
    I'm probably missing something but I still can't see how that helps. If it's a change of mind return then there is no requirement for item to be returned unwrapped, a change of mind can still be made if someone tries on something and finds it too small or too 'whatever'. eBay wouldn't care at all if a business seller tried to refuse a return on the basis his plastic bag had been opened.
    I'm the Board Guide for the Ebay Board , Charities Board , Dosh & Disability , Up Your Income and the Local MoneySaving-England board which means I'm a volunteer to help the boards run smoothly, and I can move posts there. However, do remember, board guides don't read every post. If you spot an illegal or inappropriate post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com (it's not part of my role to deal with this). Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com
    New to Forum? Guide
    • Middlestitch
    • By Middlestitch 8th Oct 17, 8:13 PM
    • 1,276 Posts
    • 2,364 Thanks
    Middlestitch

    I'm trying to find tags or clips that also can be attached to the clothes that I see that can't be hidden up a sleeve or detached and then replaced to return after buyer has worn item out.

    I see America has these shark tags about 30p each which I would even get but you can't get them here . Has any one seen anything like that here or found an answer . Even over the last few months I've noticed this wardrobing increasing and the cost in postage lost is really adding up and it's just so wrong!
    Originally posted by Moogles44
    How about the 'make your own' approach? Take a cardboard parcel label (the sort that's on a string and the hole is reinforced with a washer) and stick on a self-adhesive address label with words to the effect 'please don't remove this tag until you are sure you wish to buy, or a return cannot be accepted' - saves you writing it all out by hand every time.

    Remove the string which came with the tag and replace it with your own 'homemade string' - say 'string' made from six strands of sewing cotton, all of different colours, so rather harder to copy than just one colour. Tie this through a button hole or through a zipper tag and then knot if firmly, so it could only be removed by cutting the string - which is then too short to retie. If there's no button hole, zipper tag or other handy 'hole', stitch it carefully to an inside seam - somewhere too uncomfortable for the garment to be worn without removing the tag.

    Not perfect, but cheap and easy to do, so perhaps worth a try?
    • Moogles44
    • By Moogles44 8th Oct 17, 8:47 PM
    • 100 Posts
    • 17 Thanks
    Moogles44
    How about the 'make your own' approach? Take a cardboard parcel label (the sort that's on a string and the hole is reinforced with a washer) and stick on a self-adhesive address label with words to the effect 'please don't remove this tag until you are sure you wish to buy, or a return cannot be accepted' - saves you writing it all out by hand every time.

    Remove the string which came with the tag and replace it with your own 'homemade string' - say 'string' made from six strands of sewing cotton, all of different colours, so rather harder to copy than just one colour. Tie this through a button hole or through a zipper tag and then knot if firmly, so it could only be removed by cutting the string - which is then too short to retie. If there's no button hole, zipper tag or other handy 'hole', stitch it carefully to an inside seam - somewhere too uncomfortable for the garment to be worn without removing the tag.

    Not perfect, but cheap and easy to do, so perhaps worth a try?
    Originally posted by Middlestitch
    Sounds great but I'm so not great at craft and don't have the time to make cards and they probably wouldn't look very professional and I try to make all my stuff look as professional as I can .

    Sounds lazy but I just want to buy something that will stop it like those shark tags in America.

    Many thnaks though for that suggestion
    • FatVonD
    • By FatVonD 9th Oct 17, 12:36 AM
    • 4,871 Posts
    • 19,111 Thanks
    FatVonD
    What about something like the plastic liners that you get in the gusset of a new bikini but attached under the armpit? They often have a message about the item being non returnable once they are removed printed on them. They would make it uncomfortable to wear and if they did you at least wouldn't have sweat marks to contend with!
    Make £10 a day in October £207.56/£310 (September £374.30, August £223.95, July £71.45, June £251.22, May£119.33, April £236.24, March £106.74, Feb £40.99, Jan £98.54)
    • Marcon
    • By Marcon 9th Oct 17, 1:34 AM
    • 175 Posts
    • 93 Thanks
    Marcon
    Sounds great but I'm so not great at craft and don't have the time to make cards and they probably wouldn't look very professional and I try to make all my stuff look as professional as I can .

    Sounds lazy but I just want to buy something that will stop it like those shark tags in America.

    Many thnaks though for that suggestion
    Originally posted by Moogles44
    Why not get some cards professionally printed - it wouldn't cost any more than buying shark tags, surely? Attaching them to some lengths of multi-coloured cotton wouldn't take long - sounds like a job a youngster might do for some modest pocket money.
    • Marcon
    • By Marcon 9th Oct 17, 1:35 AM
    • 175 Posts
    • 93 Thanks
    Marcon
    What about something like the plastic liners that you get in the gusset of a new bikini but attached under the armpit? They often have a message about the item being non returnable once they are removed printed on them. They would make it uncomfortable to wear and if they did you at least wouldn't have sweat marks to contend with!
    Originally posted by FatVonD
    How would you attach them?
    • Moogles44
    • By Moogles44 9th Oct 17, 9:09 AM
    • 100 Posts
    • 17 Thanks
    Moogles44
    Why not get some cards professionally printed - it wouldn't cost any more than buying shark tags, surely? Attaching them to some lengths of multi-coloured cotton wouldn't take long - sounds like a job a youngster might do for some modest pocket money.
    Originally posted by Marcon
    I think they could easily be cut and retied and I need something that more like plastic or more fixed that would be obvious if removed and they couldn't put back.
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