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    • JJWSJS8700
    • By JJWSJS8700 7th Oct 17, 9:11 PM
    • 65Posts
    • 6Thanks
    JJWSJS8700
    ESA No points ~ Won PIP Appeal
    • #1
    • 7th Oct 17, 9:11 PM
    ESA No points ~ Won PIP Appeal 7th Oct 17 at 9:11 PM
    I wonder if anyone can advise me on my circumstances please?

    After 2yrs of Esa (IR) at Assessment Rate I finally had a WCA but didn't score any points therefore no income for myself for 2 months.

    In the same month I won my PIP Tribunal which was held and awarded PIP Standard Rate for care and mobility for 2 years which ends soon but I still haven't heard anything from DWP.

    Is it true or does anyone know if any/all the other entitlements I would have received during the two years I have now lost? I was told I would have been eligible fir a buspass.🙁

    Thank you for your help.
Page 2
    • JJWSJS8700
    • By JJWSJS8700 8th Oct 17, 8:53 AM
    • 65 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    JJWSJS8700
    I was found fit for work 7 weeks ago....I don't know if I will Appeal...

    I could live on £77pw PIP as it is more than I have lived on for the past 2 and a half years.

    The PIP award is for the whole of 2016 and 2017.
    • Alice Holt
    • By Alice Holt 8th Oct 17, 10:26 AM
    • 1,493 Posts
    • 1,593 Thanks
    Alice Holt
    I was found fit for work 7 weeks ago....I don't know if I will Appeal..
    Originally posted by JJWSJS8700
    I think you should (at least) start an appeal:
    1) You normally have 1 month from the date of the decision letter to ask the DWP to look at their decision again (requesting a Mandatory Reconsideration - MR).
    However a recent Upper Tribunal case found the 1 month deadline to be unfairly restrictive.
    So, if you ask for a MR now the DWP would hopefully consider it.
    You will need to explain why you are beyond the 1 month - so this could be illness / stress / unable to get advice / etc. Quote the UT ruling - R(CJ) and SG v Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (ESA): [2017] UKUT 324 (AAC)

    2) This is the first stage of an appeal. And you can withdraw from an appeal at any point. if you decide not to continue having looked at the ESA activities etc

    3) Having sent your MR, this gives you the time to get advice from your local CAB / advice agency / look at the descriptors / look at internet guides / etc to see if the DWP decision to withdraw your ESA was correct or incorrect.

    4) If you don't appeal now you may lose the right to appeal entirely (and you can always withdraw the appeal if you decide against carrying on with it).

    This is a proforma for the MR:
    https://www.leicester.gov.uk/media/178163/mandatory-reconsideration-request.pdf
    Send it to the office that sent you the decision letter, keep a copy and get proof of posting.

    There is some info on ESA activities and the appeals process:
    https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/news/3650-dwp-loses-fight-to-stop-claimants-appealing
    http://www.mybenefitsandwork.co.uk/med2/indexxx.php
    https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/sick-or-disabled-people-and-carers/employment-and-support-allowance/while-youre-getting-esa/challenging-an-esa-decision/
    http://www.advicenow.org.uk/guides/how-win-pip-appeal (deals with PIP but the appeal process is virtually the same)
    • pmlindyloo
    • By pmlindyloo 8th Oct 17, 10:38 AM
    • 10,753 Posts
    • 12,633 Thanks
    pmlindyloo
    Please answer these questions. What benefit are you claiming now?

    Were you on contribution based ESA or income based ESA?
    • JJWSJS8700
    • By JJWSJS8700 8th Oct 17, 1:06 PM
    • 65 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    JJWSJS8700
    Thank you very much to you bothfor replying.

    I have not claimed any benefits since my ESA was stopped at 73.10 (IR) after 2yrs and 6 mths.

    When it stopped my Appeal for PIP was allowed but I have not heard anything since....for past 2 weeks.

    I am now reading the links you sent Alice Holt because my ESA claim is also complicated, I gad a Tribunal previously but was thrown out /disallowed.

    It was not after an WCA it was because I was asking to attenda different office and the Tribunal said no.

    Thank you
    • Bananas123
    • By Bananas123 8th Oct 17, 1:23 PM
    • 293 Posts
    • 123 Thanks
    Bananas123
    get them rung up and ask for an appeal! (you will have to give reasons why you are late i think though as you have 1 month).

    you can also have the tribunal assess you on your documents alone (this may be a reason why you are late if you didn't know this etc / thought you HAD to attend but had difficulty doing so)

    it is better to attend in person though (higher success rate)

    you will be eligable for backdated payment of esa if you are successfull.

    there is no reason i can think of not to.
    Last edited by Bananas123; 08-10-2017 at 1:25 PM.
    • JJWSJS8700
    • By JJWSJS8700 8th Oct 17, 1:40 PM
    • 65 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    JJWSJS8700
    Thank you Bananas.

    The Tribunal disallowed me to attend a different WCA centre...not the Tribunal.

    It's the first thing the Tribunal offer is, do you want to attend a different venue....
    • epitome
    • By epitome 8th Oct 17, 3:40 PM
    • 2,885 Posts
    • 1,779 Thanks
    epitome
    It was not after an WCA it was because I was asking to attenda different office and the Tribunal said no.

    Thank you
    Originally posted by JJWSJS8700
    I hope you made a new claim to ESA from the date the previous ESA claim closed from.

    You have had 2 claims to ESA, The first claim closed due to fail to attend, the second closed due to failing the WCA.
    Am I right?

    Questions...
    Did you ever fail an ESA WCA before this one? When did you fail before?

    Did you change address since Jan 2016?

    As you have been awarded PIP Daily, you can ask ESA to do a form eIS10 over the phone with you, if you have lived alone then you should have Sev Dis Prem backdated to your ESA (for those times when you had an ESA claim) since Jan 2016.
    Last edited by epitome; 08-10-2017 at 3:43 PM.
    • Bananas123
    • By Bananas123 8th Oct 17, 3:57 PM
    • 293 Posts
    • 123 Thanks
    Bananas123
    Thank you Bananas.

    The Tribunal disallowed me to attend a different WCA centre...not the Tribunal.
    Originally posted by JJWSJS8700
    hello, sorry i don't understand the above if you can confirm ?

    you mean the dwp wouldn't let you change location for your WCA ? and then stopped your ESA assessment rate because you didn't attend ?.

    you know you can request the assessment at home ?
    • JJWSJS8700
    • By JJWSJS8700 8th Oct 17, 4:25 PM
    • 65 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    JJWSJS8700
    Bananas:

    ESA would not allow me to attend a different office for my WCA.

    I took it to Tribunal and the Judge disallowed Appeal saying I was DICTATING where to go for my ESA WCA.


    Thank you Bananas
    • JJWSJS8700
    • By JJWSJS8700 8th Oct 17, 4:27 PM
    • 65 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    JJWSJS8700
    I had my first and only WCA just in July and received no points.
    • JJWSJS8700
    • By JJWSJS8700 8th Oct 17, 4:56 PM
    • 65 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    JJWSJS8700
    Thank you epitome

    I have had 4 esa ckaims all continuous from Jan 2015.

    Everytime they refused I opened a new one for worsening conditionnee condition.

    I was diagnosed after my MRI with 4 different conditions.

    I was classed as FTA for the first one took it to Tribunal and the Judge said dictating.

    The second assessment came around immediately and they would not allow me to attend a different WCA centre.

    I took it to Trbunal and had another ESA claim, as you will know,no assessment rate paid for a FTA.

    I was called in for WCA again and they refused a different office. Did not take this to Appeal.

    Claimed another ESA claim and was allowed NI contributions only - no payment.

    I had no payment at all from Dec 16 until May 2017 when I was allowed my Paper Appeal at Tribunal, where the Judge said I had shown good reason for requesting a different WCA centre.
    She ordered I was allowed to attend a different WCA centre.

    This was my second claim, which superceded the other 2 I had opened after it. My Esa payment was reinstated and I was allowed to attend a different office for a WCA.

    I received an appt date, attended but received no points.

    Whist I was dumbstruck, my PIP Paper Appeal was decided, just a few werks ago and it was allowed.

    I haven't heard from DWP yet but they have got the award notice from Tribunal.

    I hope I have not confused you.

    Thank you very much.
    • epitome
    • By epitome 8th Oct 17, 5:11 PM
    • 2,885 Posts
    • 1,779 Thanks
    epitome
    I had no payment at all from Dec 16 until May 2017 when I was allowed my Paper Appeal at Tribunal, where the Judge said I had shown good reason for requesting a different WCA centre..
    Originally posted by JJWSJS8700
    So then they paid you the arrears from Dec 16 - May 17 and paid you up to July 2017?

    As you have only had one WCA, you can ask for a Mandatory Reconsideration...(say a few words why it is late)...

    Then you can start an appeal

    Then you can ask ESA to pay you on appeal.

    You should get awarded ESA IR + SDP which means
    about £134 a week, and it will be back dated to July 2017.

    You would also be entitled to ask for SDP for all periods you had ESA paid for back to Jan 2016. But you will probably have to specifically request that it is backdated for all of your ESA claim dates back to Jan 2016...because that first claim was closed, and they probably won't do it for that first claim unless you ask them to do it.
    • JJWSJS8700
    • By JJWSJS8700 8th Oct 17, 5:46 PM
    • 65 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    JJWSJS8700
    Thank you again Epitome:

    Can I just add my first claim was from Jan 2015 in Oct I had FTA, had MR took to Tribunal and disallowed....payment ended Nov 2015.

    My 2nd Claim was continuous Nov 2015 and Paper Tribunal Hearing Allowed(May 2016) ...a different WCA would be allowed.

    I was backdated, that is correct for Dec 16 until May 2017. I continued to receive the 73.10 whilst waiting for the WCA date (at a dif office) which came, I attended and no points, so the 73.10 stopped, I did MR this and was rejected. There is still time for an Appeal on SSCS1 form.

    Do I have to have the PIP award letter first before I can ask for SDP....I have not had that yet.

    My second esa that was won at appeal, started in Nov 2015 but I have to wait another 3 months as classed as a new claim because the first one was disallowed at Tribunal, is that correct?

    Thank you very much once again...if I have confused you I am sorry.
    • JJWSJS8700
    • By JJWSJS8700 8th Oct 17, 6:22 PM
    • 65 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    JJWSJS8700
    Thank you Alice Holt.

    I did do a MR and that was rejected also. I am still within the timescale to start an Appeal and have a form.

    Can I ask you please, do you know of any cases where the DWP have taken a case for for PIP or Esa to the Upper Tribunal and won/had it allowed?

    Also can you tell me, if you know, please, what entitles the Disability Premium (32.00 I think)
    to JSa/ESA Claiments as I thought one of the - WRAG or SG had to be given.

    Thank you for your help.
    • poppy12345
    • By poppy12345 8th Oct 17, 6:29 PM
    • 1,548 Posts
    • 1,371 Thanks
    poppy12345
    The disability premium of £32ish isn't paid to those on ESA, it's for those claiming Income Related JSA and Income Support. You would also need a daily living award of PIP for this. The Enhanced Disability Premium, you would need Enhanced Daily living PIP or those in Support Group are automatically awarded it.

    To take it to the Upper Tribunal you must find an error in law made by the first tribunal.
    • epitome
    • By epitome 8th Oct 17, 6:36 PM
    • 2,885 Posts
    • 1,779 Thanks
    epitome
    Thank you again Epitome:
    My 2nd Claim was continuous Nov 2015 and Paper Tribunal Hearing Allowed(May 2016) ...a different WCA would be allowed.

    I was backdated, that is correct for Dec 16 until May 2017. I continued to receive the 73.10 whilst waiting for the WCA date (at a dif office) which came, I attended and no points, so the 73.10 stopped, I did MR this and was rejected. There is still time for an Appeal on SSCS1 form.
    Originally posted by JJWSJS8700
    OK so you ask ESA enquiries line to do an eIS10 form over the phone with you, if they say "no because it is closed"..they are wrong, take thier name and office name and ask to speak to their manager, then insist that an eIS10 is taken and sent to the ESA Benefit Centre, saying you want SDP backdated to to PIP start date Jan 2016.

    Do I have to have the PIP award letter first before I can ask for SDP....I have not had that yet.
    No you don't need the letter, and when they ask you for the PIP start date, -if you don't know- ask them to look in C.I.S. and tell you what it is.

    My second esa that was won at appeal, started in Nov 2015 but I have to wait another 3 months as classed as a new claim because the first one was disallowed at Tribunal, is that correct?
    You would have to wait another 3 months if the new Tribunal awards you WRAG or Support Group.....but there would be no 3 months for the SDP, the SDP will be put on from the date of the PIP award i.e. 15/01/16

    Thank you very much once again...if I have confused you I am sorry.
    No worries. You're welcome.



    There have been lots of cases go to Upper Tribunal on many different areas of law. Some won by DWP, some won by claimants.
    It is possible to search the cases on the internet
    http://administrativeappeals.decisions.tribunals.gov.uk//Aspx/default.aspx
    Last edited by epitome; 08-10-2017 at 6:43 PM.
    • JJWSJS8700
    • By JJWSJS8700 8th Oct 17, 8:31 PM
    • 65 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    JJWSJS8700
    I am just reading through all of the advice you have given today, I was wondering ehere you were last night...lol

    Thank you very much.
    • JJWSJS8700
    • By JJWSJS8700 8th Oct 17, 8:36 PM
    • 65 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    JJWSJS8700
    Thank you Poppy for your advice.

    I did not want to take my case to UpoervTribunal, I've no reason to, it was the DWP might want to do that.

    Thank you for explaining about the Disability Premium - we have to wait to be put in one of the groups to be allowed it, if on ESA.

    Thank you once again.
    • epitome
    • By epitome 8th Oct 17, 8:54 PM
    • 2,885 Posts
    • 1,779 Thanks
    epitome
    I believe I went to watch TV last night just before you posted.

    If the DWP has already accepted the your appeal win and as a result paid you Dec - May it is very unlikely they are considering going to UT (upper trib)

    By the way, if you are sucessful in getting an eIS10 sent in a handover, make sure to ask for a call back from ESA.

    When they call you back ask them to confirm that it will be actioned now for the closed claim.

    You may be in for a bit of a fight to get them to do it for you while the claim is closed, i.e. chasing it up speaking to managers , mandatory reconsideration etc.... the bottom line is that they should do it even though the claim is closed.<<< But this is the hard way to get it done.

    But if you appeal the WCA decision to tribunal they will have to re-open your ESA and pay you...and they will definately do the Severe Dis Premium backdating once your claim has been re-opened on appeal. <<< This is the easiest guaranteed way to get them to do it.
    • poppy12345
    • By poppy12345 8th Oct 17, 9:27 PM
    • 1,548 Posts
    • 1,371 Thanks
    poppy12345
    Thank you Poppy for your advice.

    I did not want to take my case to UpoervTribunal, I've no reason to, it was the DWP might want to do that.

    Thank you for explaining about the Disability Premium - we have to wait to be put in one of the groups to be allowed it, if on ESA.

    Thank you once again.
    Originally posted by JJWSJS8700
    That's incorrect. As previously stated that disability premium of £32.55 isn't paid if on ESA. It's ONLY paid if on Income Support and Income Related JSA.
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