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  • FIRST POST
    • BlueBell2
    • By BlueBell2 7th Oct 17, 8:41 PM
    • 14Posts
    • 1Thanks
    BlueBell2
    UKCPS final notice before court proceedings
    • #1
    • 7th Oct 17, 8:41 PM
    UKCPS final notice before court proceedings 7th Oct 17 at 8:41 PM
    Hi, I have read the newbies thread & tried to follow the advice but am now a bit overwhelmed with all the information and not sure what to do next.

    A PCN was issued in July for parking on land by a shop.
    After a 2nd or 3rd letter in September i read your sticky thread and appealed the PCN & requested photographic evidence of the parked car. Mean time they have issued a letter saying this is the final notice before court proceedings.

    The appeal rejection has now arrived along with photos of where our car was parked, the pcn on the car and the private land notice.

    What should i do now please? I have read the thread but as i say, there is so much information and I'm confused about what next.

    thanks
Page 1
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 7th Oct 17, 8:52 PM
    • 4,731 Posts
    • 3,066 Thanks
    KeithP
    • #2
    • 7th Oct 17, 8:52 PM
    • #2
    • 7th Oct 17, 8:52 PM
    You have appealed. They rejected your appeal.

    What does the NEWBIES thread suggest as you next action?

    Hint: Ignore everything except a letter before claim or court papers.

    Is the letter you have received a letter before claim?
    .
    • BlueBell2
    • By BlueBell2 7th Oct 17, 10:18 PM
    • 14 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    BlueBell2
    • #3
    • 7th Oct 17, 10:18 PM
    • #3
    • 7th Oct 17, 10:18 PM
    It says "We are writing to inform you that this is the final notice before court proceedings are instigated".

    I am not clear on what i do next though.
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 7th Oct 17, 10:31 PM
    • 33,482 Posts
    • 17,361 Thanks
    Quentin
    • #4
    • 7th Oct 17, 10:31 PM
    • #4
    • 7th Oct 17, 10:31 PM
    What else does it say exactly? (That extract you posted doesn't in itself mean it's a lbcca)
    Last edited by Quentin; 07-10-2017 at 10:50 PM.
    • BlueBell2
    • By BlueBell2 7th Oct 17, 10:40 PM
    • 14 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    BlueBell2
    • #5
    • 7th Oct 17, 10:40 PM
    • #5
    • 7th Oct 17, 10:40 PM
    I have been reading the links to various replies to such letters but I'm struggling to to understand the legal speak and find a general response to my situation. i'm not saying i am unique, just that the examples i am reading have a lot of good reasons to challenge eg sick child, company wouldn't provide information, pay and display ticket fell off dashboard etc. I can't figure out what legal basis i have to challenge. It was a simple case of the driver at the time not seeing the notice.

    I was not the driver at the time but i am the registered keeper. They have said they are contacting me Under Schedule 4 of POFA 2012. At my request they have provided the photographs of the vehicle but they have declined to provide any information about contracts with the landowner etc

    Which thread gives an example of the sort of reply applicable for me please?

    I am sorry if this request is annoying to you. I genuinely wouldn't ask if it was obvious to me.

    thanks
    • BlueBell2
    • By BlueBell2 7th Oct 17, 10:51 PM
    • 14 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    BlueBell2
    • #6
    • 7th Oct 17, 10:51 PM
    • #6
    • 7th Oct 17, 10:51 PM
    It says "Notification Letter" at the top.

    "We UKCPS Ltd are required by law to inform you under Scehdule 4 of the POFA 2012 sub paaragraph (1)a.7.(2) a.b.c.d.e and f that on the 2nd July 2017 13#;58 vehicle registration XXXXX was observed parking without a valid permit or authority and the driver of the vehicle is required by virtue of a relevant obligation to pay a parking charge in respect of the parking of the vehicle on land at xxx Rd Convenience Store and by so parking he/she agreed to pay the charge of £100.00 under the terms of a relevant contract displayed in the said land.

    it goes on to say if they have to write again there will be an increase in the charge. And if they have to issue court proceedings the court may add additional charges.

    It also says "If you are the registered keeper under POFA 2012 Schedule 4 sub paragraph (8)(ii) and you ahve not within the last 28 days of reciept of our last letter informed us of the name of the driver, we now have the right to recover from the keeper so much of the amount as remains unpaid, shown above"

    It goes on

    Appeals Procedures..... registered keeper has the right of appeal within 21 days of the NTK. (I appealed alter than this i think. its been rejected).
    • waamo
    • By waamo 7th Oct 17, 10:56 PM
    • 2,118 Posts
    • 2,533 Thanks
    waamo
    • #7
    • 7th Oct 17, 10:56 PM
    • #7
    • 7th Oct 17, 10:56 PM
    I would treat this as a Letter Before Claim. Post 2 in the Newbies thread tells you how to deal with it.
    This space for hire.
    • BlueBell2
    • By BlueBell2 7th Oct 17, 10:58 PM
    • 14 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    BlueBell2
    • #8
    • 7th Oct 17, 10:58 PM
    • #8
    • 7th Oct 17, 10:58 PM
    Agghh.. I'm tired and have muddled 2 letters.

    All the above was in a letter on 4th September.

    Then i got a letter dated 20th September
    This says in red capitals "Do not ignore this notice immediate payment required"

    "We are writing to inform you that this is the final notice before court proceedings are instigated. We are offering you the opportunity to settle your debt in full by paying the amount of £150

    To accept this offer you must pay this amount in full within the next 7 days. Your failure to comply with this final offer may result in court action being progressed for the original debt plus all associated costs which could exceed £250.

    The letter gives a break down of potential costs and provides payment methods.

    I think i put in the appeal after that as on 3rd October i got the letter saying the appeal was rejected.
    Last edited by BlueBell2; 07-10-2017 at 11:01 PM. Reason: incorrect dates
    • waamo
    • By waamo 7th Oct 17, 11:01 PM
    • 2,118 Posts
    • 2,533 Thanks
    waamo
    • #9
    • 7th Oct 17, 11:01 PM
    • #9
    • 7th Oct 17, 11:01 PM
    Treat it as an LBC.
    This space for hire.
    • Redx
    • By Redx 7th Oct 17, 11:01 PM
    • 16,895 Posts
    • 20,992 Thanks
    Redx
    well, its either pay or fight

    the LBC rebuttal letters are in post #2 of the NEWBIES sticky thread
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • BlueBell2
    • By BlueBell2 7th Oct 17, 11:11 PM
    • 14 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    BlueBell2
    As i said, I've read quite a few but either I'm not understanding all the legal speak or i am missing something. If you just didn't realise you shouldn't have parked there, what is the legal basis for a challenge?

    This is getting me very stressed as i'm just not getting it
    • waamo
    • By waamo 7th Oct 17, 11:15 PM
    • 2,118 Posts
    • 2,533 Thanks
    waamo
    If you just didn't realise you shouldn't have parked there
    The signage clearly wasn't prominent enough then. If it was you would have seen it.
    This space for hire.
    • Redx
    • By Redx 7th Oct 17, 11:18 PM
    • 16,895 Posts
    • 20,992 Thanks
    Redx
    the fact is that the OP was not the driver so unless UKCPS have followed POFA2012 the keeper is not liable for the charge

    the driver may not have seen the signs, but the KEEPER bears no responsibility UNLESS ukcps can prove they followed POFA2012 and therefore transfer liability to the keeper (to the OP)

    the legalese letters are to point out any issues they have with the actual claim , which may include the above

    this is a legal matter, so all the paperwork is in legalese, its a fact of life
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 8th Oct 17, 9:13 AM
    • 7,411 Posts
    • 6,458 Thanks
    The Deep
    If they did take this to court they might struggle. PPCs deliberately avoid issuing sticking backed tickets so that they can try this con, but judges are increasingly throwing out their claims. Read this,

    https://www.google.co.uk/search?sourceid=navclient&hl=en-GB&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GUEA_en-GBGB707GB707&q=parlking+fine+fluttering++ticket&gw s_rd=ssl
    Last edited by The Deep; 08-10-2017 at 9:15 AM.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • BlueBell2
    • By BlueBell2 8th Oct 17, 9:33 PM
    • 14 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    BlueBell2
    How do i know if they have followed POFA2012 correctly? One of their letters states...
    "If you are the registered keeper under POFA 2012 Schedule 4 sub paragraph (8)(ii) and you have not within the last 28 days of receipt of our last letter informed us of the name of the driver, we now have the right to recover from the keeper so much of the amount as remains unpaid, shown above"


    the fact is that the OP was not the driver so unless UKCPS have followed POFA2012 the keeper is not liable for the charge

    the driver may not have seen the signs, but the KEEPER bears no responsibility UNLESS ukcps can prove they followed POFA2012 and therefore transfer liability to the keeper (to the OP)

    the legalese letters are to point out any issues they have with the actual claim , which may include the above

    this is a legal matter, so all the paperwork is in legalese, its a fact of life
    Originally posted by Redx
    • Redx
    • By Redx 8th Oct 17, 9:40 PM
    • 16,895 Posts
    • 20,992 Thanks
    Redx
    explained in the NEWBIES sticky thread

    but in simple terms

    the NTK has to have the correct details as listed by the law called POFA2012 (and)

    UKCPS have to have sent this to you by day 15 in cases of ANPR or camera captures

    OR

    they have to have sent it to you between day 29 and day 56 in cases where a ticket was issued to the driver (NTD) on the day in question

    if they followed POFA2012 to the letter, the law says they can transfer liabilty to you as keeper, if they failed to folllow all the steps required, then as keeper you are not liable

    as keeper (and not the driver) you would not have seen the signage as you werent there

    other factors they have to meet too

    the IPC CoP
    A LANDOWNER CONTRACT
    SIGNAGE

    etc
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • bluetoffee1878
    • By bluetoffee1878 11th Oct 17, 11:30 AM
    • 251 Posts
    • 434 Thanks
    bluetoffee1878
    I've had a bit of recent exposure to these scammers.

    It seems that they put a ticket on the windscreen, followed up with a notice to keeper which states on the back that the opportunity to appeal has now lapsed and no appeal is available unless "exceptional circumstances" (bit naughty that I reckon).

    They then ignore the template IPC appeal.

    They then send what they call a "notification letter" giving the keeper 14 days to pay, and also stating that the keeper had the right to appeal but 21 days have elapsed since the NTK so out of time to appeal.

    A third letter then arrives with scary red font, increasing the charge to £150 with no explanation why. It's not really an LBA but in my case I am treating it as such. (I have seen other UKCPS letters actually titled 'Letter Before Court Claim')

    In my case I am replying with an edited version of the LBA reply in the newbies thread here http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=73208118#290

    Don't just copy and paste, as this was written for Gladstones Solicitors and you would be writing to UKCPS so make sure you edit and read it so it makes sense.

    The important bit is the new protocol that came into force October 1st which this letter covers

    hope this helps
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