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  • FIRST POST
    • fumin37
    • By fumin37 7th Oct 17, 6:09 PM
    • 55Posts
    • 11Thanks
    fumin37
    Esa hell ..desperate for feedback and advice anyone please :-)
    • #1
    • 7th Oct 17, 6:09 PM
    Esa hell ..desperate for feedback and advice anyone please :-) 7th Oct 17 at 6:09 PM
    Hi ...i have posted this on anothe forum but not getting the advice im looking for due to it being the weekend ..someone kindly gave me tbe link for here ..so here goes!
    I applied for ESA last year in November 2016 due to severersl conditions that i could no longer manage to work through anymore
    and went to the medical some time later which of course i failed.
    Iwent for a MR straight away ,failed and took it to tribunal.
    i claimed ESA at the assesemnt rate during this time.
    I then unbelievably missed two tribunals around march time due to a mix up and confusion with dates they had given me and my annoying cognative issues.
    i finally got to tribunal in May 2017 where they immedistely stated they woukd not be able to take my new evidence (of new conditions) into account as my claim was made in November.
    i basically failed on the spot because of this.
    i contacted ESA immediately while at the CAB and the man i spoke to said it was wrong of the tribunal to refuse my evidence and to re apply gor ESA again on the grounds of my new and worsening conditions .I semt in a fit note that day backing this up and was told to sign on jsa in the interim.
    I was then told by jsa before i had even had a payment that i had been put straight back onto ESA based on my fit note.I had not at this point even sent off new claim forms.
    I then remained on ESA untill my WCA last month.
    I then failed that too but with 6 points as apposed to 0.
    I asked for a MR and sent in more harder evidence including a letter from my doctor and the decision was overturned.
    I have now after a year of absaloute stress and turmoil been placed into the WRAG group.
    but my initial relief has turned to anxiety when i realised my "new claim"was made literally a few weeks after the cuts came in and i will now still be struggling just as much as i have been on the lowest rate of ESA and i imagine NO back pay .

    I do not know this for sure as i still have no award letter but this is how im guessing its going to be ?
    Unless the dwp back dates to my original claim back in Novemember last year due to my worsening and new conditions.I am still VERY confused by all of this and the idea of having to continue to live at subsistance level while being unwell and trying to support a family fills me with dread And my benefits have been all over the place due to being forced to claim jsa for a week.weve been to the food bank 3 times in the last few weeks..
    i realise this is a bit of a long post but any advice would be so gladly appreciated !so many thsnks in advance if anyone has the energy to read through it and give me some feed back !:-)
Page 6
    • fumin37
    • By fumin37 11th Oct 17, 11:55 PM
    • 55 Posts
    • 11 Thanks
    fumin37
    Hi Alice Holt.
    Thankyou,
    firstly i have no money to waste on a solicitor as i have no money .
    The man at the DWP said i should be able to get an hours free advice thats all.
    He said that i need to apply for my statement of reasons and that the majority of the time as long as i can explain the length of time its taken me to ask for this an appeal would be accepted.
    I have applied for PIP some time ago.
    • epitome
    • By epitome 12th Oct 17, 1:15 AM
    • 3,027 Posts
    • 1,837 Thanks
    epitome
    From your OP it seems you are now out of time to ask the UT to review the FTT decision (which has to be on an error of law).
    Originally posted by Alice Holt
    It wouldn't hurt to ask if they can be submitted late, just as DWP Man Recons and appeals can be submitted late.
    If you consult a solicitor you will be wasting your money.
    Maybe not, doesn't the CAB have solicitors for client referral?

    If Fumin gets the Written Statement of reasons from the June 2017 Tribunal, gets evidence of why she thinks that the DWP decision not to allow ESA (in January 2017 ? ) was wrong....without making any reference to any conditions that got worse after the decision date. Or why the later tribunal should have said Support Group on the "worsened evidence".

    Even if it is too late for UTT, there is always Judicial Review as an option. Fumin can take her evidence to a free solicitor specialising in benefits to see if there is a case to answer. Probability will be there is no chance, but if Fumin does her homework well enough before going to the solicitor there might be a chance. The problem I think will come if Fumin loses, could be a hefty legal bill coming her way, but take advice on law forums and see what the situation would be....(given that you have no money and are on benefits)

    She could even be a litigant in person.

    Fumin,
    I am only thinking out loud. In reality you will most likely just end up accepting these decisions.

    Remember there is permitted work on ESA, work less than 16 hours a week, earn no more than £120 a week and your earnings will not affect your ESA award..... Of all the things in the benefit world that permitted work allowance is really cool.
    Last edited by epitome; 12-10-2017 at 7:41 AM.
    • NeilCr
    • By NeilCr 12th Oct 17, 6:59 AM
    • 1,106 Posts
    • 1,221 Thanks
    NeilCr
    Whether the CAB has solicitors for client referral depends on the local office

    We only have one. They deal with family law and you get a short free meeting with them.

    Other bigger CABs may have more
    • epitome
    • By epitome 12th Oct 17, 8:13 AM
    • 3,027 Posts
    • 1,837 Thanks
    epitome
    And Also By the way,
    He also said that even though I didnt make a paper claim the fact I rang up and stated my conditions had worsened straight after the tribunal counted as a new claim verbaly .
    Reading this another way, it is possible -as he says- that this is when you made a "New Claim" with worsened condition, The DWP person took you through a "New Claim to ESA" on the phone on 12/06/17 (Monday) and asked you to send in evidence of your worsening condition...which I remember you said you took to the jobcentre straightaway (or sent it in).


    Looking through my bank statement i can see that i was recieving ESA still throughout May and the last fortnightly Esa payment was 7th June. I then recieved a forward paymemt from JSA for 41 .78 on the 14th june, and on 21 June I was back on Fortnightly ESA again.
    Originally posted by fumin37
    This makes sense,

    All Same Day Payments and Short Term Benefit Advances will appear on a bank statement as "JSA" but they are ESA payments.
    Your fortnight payment landed on 07/06/17 (Wednesday), then when the DWP processed your new claim, they incorrectly closed your old claim on the 11/06/17, giving you 4 days final payment 8th - 11th June as a Same Day Payment.
    (£73.10 / 7) * 4 days = £41.78

    Your New ESA Claim was made from 12/07/17 and the first pay day would be Wed, 21/06/17, which is what you said, and was not a Same Day Payment so it shows as ESA.
    12/06/17 - 21/06/17 (73.10 / 7) x 10 days = £104.43

    Therefore although you don't remember doing it...you did a new claim over the phone on Monday 12/06/17, having lost your appeal, (you said as much in your first post.).
    I contacted ESA immediately while at the CAB and the man i spoke to said it was wrong of the tribunal to refuse my evidence and to re apply gor ESA again on the grounds of my new and worsening conditions .I sent in a fit note that day backing this up and was told to sign on jsa in the interim.
    Seems to me you did a new claim to ESA on 12/06/17 and the ESA person having taken you claim ..told you to also claim JSA which is incorrect advice, (it used to be DWP advice to do this, but the DWP changed the guidance on JSA New Claims making this double claiming impossible). By the time you got to the jobcentre, your ESA claim was already allowed on worsening - which happens.
    • fumin37
    • By fumin37 12th Oct 17, 9:18 AM
    • 55 Posts
    • 11 Thanks
    fumin37
    Epitome.
    Thankyou so much.I dont know who you are obviously ,Or if you have a legal background ,but you clearly know what you are talking about .
    I feel inclined to listen to what you say over anything else.
    I am incredibly grateful to you for the time you have taken regarding my sitituation :-)
    At the end of the day ,the system that is set up to confuse and disorientate people and BOY !does it do a good job.IF i had not been in such a difficult place, i will have been able to deal with it very differently.I used to advocate as part of a previous job and so my inability to think straight proves to me just how much things have deteriorated.
    This is hard to deal with.
    You are right .I am going to have to admit defeat.There is no way i have the energy to fight this for a minute longer.
    This is clearly what the gvt wants and it works.
    The whole reason i applied for this benefit was in the hope that i would have some respite and time to get my health back onto a manageable level.having had to give up 3 jobs due to being signed off sick so much ,i felt i need time out to try and reccuperate and deal with my health issues . But of course going through this process has just made me worse and i have not been able to think about work at all (oh the irony)
    As for permitted work.I am aware of this and it was my original hope when i went on ESA to be able to significantly lower my hours.What i was becoming aware of was that i was becoming totally unable to manage 16-20 hours plus a week helping other people AND look after a family,home and the responsabilities that come with that plus deal with conditions that render me almost unable to function at times.
    I was never planning to be out of work for so long I love working.
    And i feel not being in work is not healthy for me personaly as i like to feel i have a purpose outside of family etc.
    Nothing has ever felt more miserable than this last year being stuck at home believe me.
    However, i do know realisticaly that at this point in time,if i was to try and work again i would only be able to deal with the minimum amount of hours possible im talking atleast under 10.
    The permitted work situation concerns me also as surely if you can work even just a few hours then this looks like to the DWP that you are able.And next time you apply after your yearly award this goes against you ?
    This did happen to me many years ago when i claimed for a short time.
    But I do completely agree with you ,It is one of the luxuries or being on ESA.
    • pipkin71
    • By pipkin71 12th Oct 17, 9:51 AM
    • 18,956 Posts
    • 83,735 Thanks
    pipkin71
    It didn't go against me, when I did permitted work (I was in s/g). It was actually really beneficial as once I started earning over £120.00 per week, I knew it was something I could make a living from, without worrying about how my health will impact on that
    There is something delicious about writing the first words of a story. You never quite know where they'll take you - Beatrix Potter
    • fumin37
    • By fumin37 12th Oct 17, 10:03 AM
    • 55 Posts
    • 11 Thanks
    fumin37
    Thankyou pipkin and for ALL your help youve given me on here.
    I am going to have a few weeks to try and calm down from all this lol.
    I have to see a jobs advisor anyway and will discuss the situation with them.
    Not that i need interview coaching or advice on how to write a c.v .What i need is my confidence and mind back and to feel better/stronger.
    Im glad you have found something that works for you .
    Im hoping i can do the same at some point without predudice.
    You have all been wonderful.
    (neil CR apology for the argy bargy �� !)
    • NeilCr
    • By NeilCr 12th Oct 17, 4:11 PM
    • 1,106 Posts
    • 1,221 Thanks
    NeilCr
    No worries Fumin. I wasn’t getting at you. Just concerned about how CAB workers might be viewed

    I wish you very well and hope that things resolve themselves!
    • Bumfluff007
    • By Bumfluff007 7th Nov 17, 10:41 AM
    • 1 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Bumfluff007
    Hi, please can anyone tell me what happens if the ESA tribunal is unsuccessful, and my doctor is still providing Fit Notes because of my condition.
    Am I still entitled to sick pay with the doctors note ? Thanks
    • poppy12345
    • By poppy12345 7th Nov 17, 11:14 AM
    • 1,779 Posts
    • 1,597 Thanks
    poppy12345
    Hi, please can anyone tell me what happens if the ESA tribunal is unsuccessful, and my doctor is still providing Fit Notes because of my condition.
    Am I still entitled to sick pay with the doctors note ? Thanks
    Originally posted by Bumfluff007
    Simple answer is no, i'm afraid. If the Tribunal finds you fit work then the only way you can re-claim ESA/UC is for a new condtion or your existing condition has got worse. If they do find you fit for work then if an error in law is found in making that decision but this is extremely difficult then you can take it to the Upper Tribunal.
    • epitome
    • By epitome 7th Nov 17, 9:17 PM
    • 3,027 Posts
    • 1,837 Thanks
    epitome
    Hi, please can anyone tell me what happens if the ESA tribunal is unsuccessful, and my doctor is still providing Fit Notes because of my condition.
    Am I still entitled to sick pay with the doctors note ? Thanks
    Originally posted by Bumfluff007
    If you lose the tribunal, your ESA will be eventually closed retrospectively from the day after the tribunal hearing. It can take them a couple of weeks to close it but it should be closed retrospectively, which can cause problems for your Housing Benefit which can also then be closed retrospectively.

    If you make a new claim to ESA, the Decision Makers will be looking at your last medical report to see what conditions were discussed/covered by that report.

    To be successful in a new claim to ESA you will need to have a condition that was not discussed at the last medical, or a condition that was discussed but has gotten worse. The DM will decide through talking to you if it has got worse.
    • Unimaginativeusername
    • By Unimaginativeusername 8th Nov 17, 8:01 AM
    • 23 Posts
    • 18 Thanks
    Unimaginativeusername
    It’s sad really when genuine cases are treated poorly. Meanwhile you have people like my flatmate who gets ESA and high rate PIP because he pretends to have “anxiety” and panic attacks. There’s nothing actually wrong with him.

    You just need to know how to play the system.
    • DCFC79
    • By DCFC79 8th Nov 17, 8:34 AM
    • 30,432 Posts
    • 19,236 Thanks
    DCFC79
    It’s sad really when genuine cases are treated poorly. Meanwhile you have people like my flatmate who gets ESA and high rate PIP because he pretends to have “anxiety” and panic attacks. There’s nothing actually wrong with him.

    You just need to know how to play the system.
    Originally posted by Unimaginativeusername
    Its a shame people do playthe system rather than earn a living.
    Can people stop loaning money/being a guarator to family/friends, it rarely ends well and you lose out as your money is gone or you get shafted with being a guarantor.
    • Penitent
    • By Penitent 8th Nov 17, 11:00 AM
    • 1,594 Posts
    • 4,721 Thanks
    Penitent
    Its a shame people do playthe system rather than earn a living.
    Originally posted by DCFC79
    I've been cycling through phases of work, ESA and JSA for several years and I genuinely don't understand why anyone would choose to be on ESA if they didn't really need to. I'd go back to work in a heartbeat if I could. ESA is empty, pointless days and worrying about money, punctuated by occassional bouts of terror whenever a brown envelope turns up. It's !!!!ing awful.
    • Unimaginativeusername
    • By Unimaginativeusername 8th Nov 17, 2:26 PM
    • 23 Posts
    • 18 Thanks
    Unimaginativeusername
    I say this too him. He says “working is for mugs”. He’s got a flat and a brand new car on finance and a brand new top of the range phone all of which he pays for with his benefit money. I’m beginning to think he’s right!
    • nannytone
    • By nannytone 8th Nov 17, 5:03 PM
    • 12,228 Posts
    • 18,161 Thanks
    nannytone
    if you're so sure he is scamming the system then why haven't you reported him?

    by allowing it to continue you are almost complicit in his fraud
    • Unimaginativeusername
    • By Unimaginativeusername 8th Nov 17, 5:46 PM
    • 23 Posts
    • 18 Thanks
    Unimaginativeusername
    I’m not a grass, and I don’t want to be homeless!
    • Thomas The Tank Top
    • By Thomas The Tank Top 9th Nov 17, 7:08 AM
    • 192 Posts
    • 497 Thanks
    Thomas The Tank Top
    I’m not a grass, and I don’t want to be homeless!
    Originally posted by Unimaginativeusername
    In which case: Scrotes 1 Genuine Claimants 0

    He's right though. According to this board, it would indeed seem that. Only fools and horses work.
    • Penitent
    • By Penitent 9th Nov 17, 11:46 AM
    • 1,594 Posts
    • 4,721 Thanks
    Penitent
    In which case: Scrotes 1 Genuine Claimants 0

    He's right though. According to this board, it would indeed seem that. Only fools and horses work.
    Originally posted by Thomas The Tank Top
    I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion about this board. People here help those who are eligible due to illness or disability to claim ESA and/or PIP, they don't encourage people who just CBA working to pretend to be ill. OPs who want to claim by lying or exaggerating, who commit fraud, or who fail to report a change in circumstances are frequently roasted for it.
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