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  • FIRST POST
    • BlueNine
    • By BlueNine 7th Oct 17, 4:47 PM
    • 4Posts
    • 1Thanks
    BlueNine
    PCN in my own rented flat's space
    • #1
    • 7th Oct 17, 4:47 PM
    PCN in my own rented flat's space 7th Oct 17 at 4:47 PM
    Hi, apologies for posting - I've read the newbie's post and just wanted to clarify if some things change the process at all for me.

    I've received a PCN from PCS (Parking Collection Services) by post as the registered keeper for my car being in the allocated space for my rented flat without displaying the parking permit (it had fallen off the windshield so wouldn't have been visible), they say the charge was issued by a warden operated camera system and are demanding payment. I'm wondering if the following things would help me appeal or even make a compensation claim against PCS:

    1) I've checked my tenancy agreement and no-where does it actually mention displaying the parking permit, or parking at all for that matter. I'm a bit confused as to the setup for my tenancy though as I signed the agreement with the landlord, which is managed by an estate agent - but there's a management company for the building (who issue the parking permits).

    2) They didn't leave a notice on my vehicle at any point.

    3) I have the actual parking permit and a letter from the management company with my name on, so they know I'm allowed to park there.

    4) The PCN doesn't state how long I was parked there (was actually all-night).

    It's also worth noting that there are signs up everywhere with warnings about parking on private land, so I'm guessing I can't say there's inadequate signage!

    Sorry again for posting, but this is the first time I've received something like this and its causing my partner and I a lot of anxiety, so want to make sure I'm right in not paying!
Page 1
    • Redx
    • By Redx 7th Oct 17, 5:29 PM
    • 16,895 Posts
    • 20,985 Thanks
    Redx
    • #2
    • 7th Oct 17, 5:29 PM
    • #2
    • 7th Oct 17, 5:29 PM
    PCS are debt collectors, not a parking company, so your first task is to identify who the creditor is (the actual name of the parking company)

    1) this is quite common and discussed in many threads regarding residential cases, so please search other similar case threads and read the advice in them

    a complaint to the MA etc should also be made

    2) irrelevant , not all pcn,s are windscreen notices

    OR , they may have used "ghost ticketing" , removing it after taking pictures (a common illegal practice)

    3) good , complain to the M.A. etc

    4) pcn failures may help your case, as can POFA2012 failures etc

    5) signage should ALWAYS be queried because few signs meet the strict requirements under the laws and under the relevant CoP. so ALWAYS query the signage in order to make them prove it is compliant

    if you dont query something , it wont be considered and you may have lost a valid point due to NOT querying it - assume the signs fail unless the PPC proves otherwise

    you probably have primacy of contract and the right to peaceful enjoyment , so you really need to read recent 2017 threads about similar cases, until you get up to speed like everyone else with similar issues

    and deciding how to deal with this is your first priority, which will depend on which PPC is involved (as I said , PCS is a DCA called DRP so NOT a parking company)

    you have assumed PCS is the parking company , IT ISNT !! end of

    and you need to find out under what right you have the right to park there, it should be in the AST or lease or paperwork
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • BlueNine
    • By BlueNine 7th Oct 17, 6:33 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    BlueNine
    • #3
    • 7th Oct 17, 6:33 PM
    • #3
    • 7th Oct 17, 6:33 PM
    Thanks for replying, looks like its on behalf of New World Facilities East Essex who are registered with the IPC...from what I've read that means no POPLA for me.

    Would it be best for me to find out about my right to park there before sending the appeal (was going to use the template IPC letter from the newbie thread), or is it more for any further stages that might happen? I was a bit surprised for parking not to have been mentioned in ANY of the paperwork I signed, so will have to get on to the estate agents about that.

    This all couldn't have come at a worse time really as I'm leaving the country at 8am Monday and won't be back until next weekend!
    • Redx
    • By Redx 7th Oct 17, 6:39 PM
    • 16,895 Posts
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    Redx
    • #4
    • 7th Oct 17, 6:39 PM
    • #4
    • 7th Oct 17, 6:39 PM
    I dont think 7 days will matter , but get that IPC appeal in before day 21 to PCS, but expect it to be rejected out of hand, so dont get your hopes up

    getting rid of this will be down to your right to park, what the lease says about your designated parking space etc , then complaining to the M.A. etc to get them to cancel it
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 7th Oct 17, 6:47 PM
    • 40,512 Posts
    • 80,904 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    • #5
    • 7th Oct 17, 6:47 PM
    • #5
    • 7th Oct 17, 6:47 PM
    You are correct, New World are IPC members so you need to use the IPC template from the NEWBIES.
    So double check the terms of your lease/AST then add a paragraph to the effect that it has primacy of contract over the daft made up rules the scammers are trying to impose.
    Don't miss the appeal deadline which is normally 21 days, but sometimes 28.

    Complain to the MA and the Landowner. Also complain to your MP that an unregulated parking company scammer is operating a for profit business on your allocated space. Ask them to confirm that they will be support the private members parking bill. This last is very important.

    Have a read here to see what judges have said about this scam and make sure the MA, landowner, and your MP are aware of this.

    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2016/11/residential-parking.html
    Last edited by Fruitcake; 08-10-2017 at 10:45 AM.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
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    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 8th Oct 17, 10:11 AM
    • 7,411 Posts
    • 6,458 Thanks
    The Deep
    • #6
    • 8th Oct 17, 10:11 AM
    • #6
    • 8th Oct 17, 10:11 AM
    Also complain to your MP that an unregulated parking company scammer is operating a for profit business on your demised space


    OP is a tenant, substitute allocated.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • BlueNine
    • By BlueNine 26th Oct 17, 12:15 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    BlueNine
    • #7
    • 26th Oct 17, 12:15 PM
    • #7
    • 26th Oct 17, 12:15 PM
    Thanks for the advice everyone, I sent off the template letter from the NEWBIES section and they have come back to me with the following:


    "Thank you for your email regarding the above PCN.


    Please be advised that we are only able to accept an appeal from the driver on the date in question.


    So we can handle your query, please advise if you were the driver on the day that the charge was issued. Alternatively, please advise the driver that they must appeal."


    They didn't answer any of the questions in the letter or provide any of proof that the car was parked without a permit.


    I'm guessing this is just a cheap trick to try to strengthen their case (strange considering the letter states "the driver will not be named"!). So I'm wondering what, if anything, I reply to this with? - I'd like to ask them how it is that they can't accept an appeal from someone other than the driver but can accept payment!...probably not a good idea though
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 26th Oct 17, 12:50 PM
    • 7,411 Posts
    • 6,458 Thanks
    The Deep
    • #8
    • 26th Oct 17, 12:50 PM
    • #8
    • 26th Oct 17, 12:50 PM
    I'm guessing this is just a cheap trick to try to strengthen their case ...

    AFAICS, they have no case. They appear to be interfering in your AST right to "quiet enjoyment" possible an offence under the Landlord and Tenants Acts. They may also have invaded you privacy under the DPA.

    There is a vast amount of information available on the internet google "own space". "residential parking ticket" "Parking Prankster residential" for enlightenment.

    If I was in your shoes I would reply referring them to Arkell v Preedram.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • pappa golf
    • By pappa golf 26th Oct 17, 12:55 PM
    • 7,701 Posts
    • 7,973 Thanks
    pappa golf
    • #9
    • 26th Oct 17, 12:55 PM
    • #9
    • 26th Oct 17, 12:55 PM
    Thanks for the advice everyone, I sent off the template letter from the NEWBIES section and they have come back to me with the following:


    "Thank you for your email regarding the above PCN.


    Please be advised that we are only able to accept an appeal from the driver on the date in question.


    So we can handle your query, please advise if you were the driver on the day that the charge was issued. Alternatively, please advise the driver that they must appeal."


    They didn't answer any of the questions in the letter or provide any of proof that the car was parked without a permit.


    I'm guessing this is just a cheap trick to try to strengthen their case (strange considering the letter states "the driver will not be named"!). So I'm wondering what, if anything, I reply to this with? - I'd like to ask them how it is that they can't accept an appeal from someone other than the driver but can accept payment!...probably not a good idea though
    Originally posted by BlueNine
    there was No driver , the vehicle was PARKED on your land at the time ,

    please do not tresspass on my property again

    squiggle
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 26th Oct 17, 1:10 PM
    • 1,136 Posts
    • 1,165 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    Parked on MY land at the time

    Tell them that, as they have no cause to process the Keepers data, and their sending of misleading, harassing lettters is causing signifciant distress, you give them notice they must cease processing your data under section 10(1) of the DPA 1998. 21 days to respond confirming this.
    • BlueNine
    • By BlueNine 7th Nov 17, 11:26 AM
    • 4 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    BlueNine
    Thanks for all the advice so far...


    So I followed up their email with one of my own saying there was no driver, car was parked in my demised space with my permission at the time. I said that a continued attempt to process my data as keeper of the vehicle would be a invasion of my privacy under DPA and to cease under section 10(1).


    Received the following reply today:


    "As previously advised, we are only able to accept an appeal from the driver of the vehicle. The liable party is whoever parked the vehicle and we are only able to accept appeals from that individual. Please ensure that the driver details are provided no later than 14/11/17.


    You have no right to object to our processing of your data under section 10 of the DPA if:
    * you have consented to the processing
    * the processing is necessary: in relation to a contract that the individual has entered into
    * the processing is necessary because of a legal obligation that applies to you.
    * the processing is necessary to protect individuals "vital interests"
    * the processing does not cause unwarranted and substantial damage or distress


    Your details were obtained from the DVLA under a reasonable cause request and we believe that holding of your details on file is correct due to the validity of the parking charge. We do not believe that our processing of your data will cause you unwarranted and substantial damage or distress. Therefore, we will not remove your details from our system."




    I'm thinking of disputing that I entered into any contract as I'm just the owner of the vehicle, not sure what they mean by a legal obligation applying to me, and who are they to decide what unwarranted and substantial damage or distress is? They also still haven't provided any evidence (photographic or otherwise) that the car was even parked there! (it was)


    To be honest, I wasn't expecting as much back-and-forth on the appeal...assumed it'd just be a "appeal denied" and I'd move onto ignoring debt collectors!
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