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  • FIRST POST
    • Westminster
    • By Westminster 7th Oct 17, 4:46 PM
    • 819Posts
    • 501Thanks
    Westminster
    Considering separation from Disabled partner
    • #1
    • 7th Oct 17, 4:46 PM
    Considering separation from Disabled partner 7th Oct 17 at 4:46 PM
    Hi all

    Forgive me if this reads liked jumbled ramblings but this is my thought process so far.

    Background
    We have been married for 12 years.
    We own a mortgaged property together - it’s in both our names but I don’t recall (without digging out the paperwork) whether it’s joint tenancy or tenants in common.

    Draft letter to my wife
    I have been drafting some text to put in a letter to my wife as I expect it all to get very emotionally charged very quickly and I want to make sure I get everything across even if it’s much later that she reads it:

    Firstly I realise that while it is very difficult for me to say these things, it will likely be very significantly harder for you to hear them and for that I apologise. What follows is a rather rambling selection of my thoughts and decision making process over this difficult situation.

    I have been unhappy in our relationship for quite some time although have made several attempts to force myself to change my feelings / views but I have been unable to do so.

    I am finding the physical and emotional demands of helping you meet your daily needs too difficult and it is making me very depressed. However I am not ‘blaming’ you for this - I just feel that we have grown apart in the same way many ‘normal’ couples would, we just have an extra dynamic. In all honesty, if it were not for your MS, I would probably have left several years ago so I really have tried hard to make this work.

    While I still have affection for you and do care what happens to you moving forward, I have not felt love for a long time and have felt somewhat trapped by our situation and your condition as I would otherwise have probably done something about this a few years ago.

    I know you have been sad for some time (possibly also depressed?) but have avoided trying to confront it as I didn’t want all this to come out before I had got your situation as ‘ready’ as possible for my departure. To this end, I have been trying where possible to put on a ‘front’ to keep things together due to the above.

    Perhaps you are wondering if there is anyone else in my life - I can 100% percent say that there is nobody else and never has been anyone else. I haven’t as much as held someone else’s hand and I have no interest in finding anyone else at this time.

    The boys are the most important thing to me and to help secure their future I intend to do what I can to keep my flying career so that I can continue to provide you all with a secure home. I hope their sunny disposition can help you through this and will always be on hand to help as and when I can.

    I want to be very clear that I would love to have the boys living with me but its impractical with my work schedule and very unfair for you.

    I hope we can maintain shared custody so that some of the time when I am home (and when convenient to you) the boys could live with me for some of the time.

    I hope that we can keep a good relationship / communication going forward and while I fully expect this news to be extremely difficult, I also think you would very much prefer to keep the boys living with you and I am happy for them to do that and hope we can arrange an informal access program to fit in with my work etc. I intend to rent a property nearby so that I can help out with them as much as possible and so that we can share access / custody of the boys - particularly during the school holidays.

    I hope that once the initial dust has settled, we will be able to share the parenting decisions as much as is possible.

    Obviously the cats were a gift and I am happy for you to keep them. In fact there is very little I would want to take with me apart from those few items I would naturally see as ‘mine’ which would be laptop / server, my car etc. Everything else is up for discussion and I’m happy to leave you with pretty much everything else as you choose. While you may not want me back inside the house, if you do need any help with internet etc them I am happy to offer assistance. I will try to get as much as possible about the household accounts all together so there isn’t much you need to do.

    I’m taking my time over this process before I tell you as I want to make sure your situation is as stable as possible before I leave. I am hopeful that after the initial sense of loss from having to start using aids etc, that you ultimately feel better as your agency staff will be here solely for your needs so you won’t ever feel like you are ‘disturbing’ someone else when you need something.

    I haven’t yet had any professional advice on how the house / finances should be split but will probably do so before I tell you. My aim is to try to maintain the status-quo as much as possible. We don’t have any debts apart from the mortgage and I realise you won’t be able to buy me out of my part of the house so probably I will see if there is a way for me to keep my name / share in the property while you all continue to live there. I will then seek professional advice on what level of financial provision I will be required - but my intention is to fully meet my commitments.
    Last edited by Westminster; 07-10-2017 at 4:54 PM.
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Page 7
    • Red-Squirrel
    • By Red-Squirrel 9th Oct 17, 1:23 PM
    • 1,999 Posts
    • 5,517 Thanks
    Red-Squirrel
    or maybe he is just thinking through all the possibilities and options to come to the very best way forward for his wife and her needs not just emotionally but practically aswell.
    Originally posted by BBH123
    Thing is, those are really decisions she should be making, or that they should be making together, not that she should be having made for her.
    • Red-Squirrel
    • By Red-Squirrel 9th Oct 17, 1:24 PM
    • 1,999 Posts
    • 5,517 Thanks
    Red-Squirrel
    My wife is fully engaged (and always was) in the external agency process as regardless of whether I leave or not, we need a replacement for the current carer while I am away with work.
    Originally posted by Westminster
    She doesn't have all the information though, does she? You are withholding from her things that she needs to know in order to make fully informed choices.

    For God's sake just talk to her!
    • KxMx
    • By KxMx 9th Oct 17, 4:57 PM
    • 7,217 Posts
    • 10,134 Thanks
    KxMx
    Easy to criticize the guy from afar. The minority (and I mean the minority) can contribute and advise on this kind of decision. The rest of you should wind your necks in. He clearly is at the end of his tether. You lot should be ashamed of yourselves.
    Originally posted by andydownes123
    I commented from a position of experience, but have chosen not to go into any details, or outwardly declare.

    I'm perhaps not the only poster who chose to do that.
    • Pollycat
    • By Pollycat 9th Oct 17, 5:08 PM
    • 18,549 Posts
    • 47,748 Thanks
    Pollycat
    I commented from a position of experience, but have chosen not to go into any details, or outwardly declare.

    I'm perhaps not the only poster who chose to do that.
    Originally posted by KxMx
    Regardless of what position any poster has commented, no other poster has the right to say who can or can't contribute or advise on any thread.
    • joeblags
    • By joeblags 9th Oct 17, 5:14 PM
    • 150 Posts
    • 107 Thanks
    joeblags
    keeps the kids and the house , just wheel her down the ramp and leave her next to the wheeli bin. sorted!
    • thepurplepixie
    • By thepurplepixie 9th Oct 17, 6:23 PM
    • 937 Posts
    • 1,646 Thanks
    thepurplepixie
    I didn't say it was an ideal childhood.
    I think you'll find it was the OP who's considering the arrangements for the children.


    I think you should ask the OP if he has thought about the psychological damage this will do.
    Originally posted by Pollycat
    Yes, sorry should have been to OP. It has just touched a nerve with me because of the people I know where this happens. I feel so angry for those children.
    • meer53
    • By meer53 9th Oct 17, 8:04 PM
    • 8,981 Posts
    • 13,046 Thanks
    meer53
    Easy to criticize the guy from afar. The minority (and I mean the minority) can contribute and advise on this kind of decision. The rest of you should wind your necks in. He clearly is at the end of his tether. You lot should be ashamed of yourselves.
    Originally posted by andydownes123
    So, do you have anything constructive to add ?
    • Gavin83
    • By Gavin83 9th Oct 17, 8:28 PM
    • 4,715 Posts
    • 7,496 Thanks
    Gavin83
    Just to clarify here are people suggesting he should stay in a loveless marriage or am I misunderstanding this? Alternatively are people suggesting he leave her and take the kids with him which probably seems the worst possible outcome for her. Seems to be a lot of people telling him he's horrible for writing the letter but offering very little suggestion as to what the best option is.
    • toniq
    • By toniq 9th Oct 17, 8:40 PM
    • 28,226 Posts
    • 603,678 Thanks
    toniq
    His best option is to talk to his wife, only they can decide what route they should go down, only they know if the marriage is worth saving, only they know how each other can cope with the situation.

    By putting it on here he has asked total strangers to have a look at his Dear Joan letter.

    Op needs to sit down with his wife and talk this through, maybe relate might help.

    If he can't do that as various family members have been helping with the care side maybe he could talk to them as they know the situation better than anyone here.

    Of course from the synopsis: man leaves disabled wife with 2 young children for his own happiness people are going to judge harshly without knowing the people involved.
    Last edited by toniq; 09-10-2017 at 8:42 PM.
    HAPPY HAPPY JOY JOY!! HAPPY HAPPY JOY! HAPPY HAPPY JOY JOY!! HAPPY HAPPY JOY!

    • Judi
    • By Judi 9th Oct 17, 9:48 PM
    • 15,445 Posts
    • 63,751 Thanks
    Judi
    Seems to be a lot of people telling him he's horrible for writing the letter but offering very little suggestion as to what the best option is.
    Well he needs to consider 'damage limitation' for a start. The letter he had drafted was cruel and uncalled for.
    'Holy crap on a cracker!'
    • barbiedoll
    • By barbiedoll 9th Oct 17, 11:04 PM
    • 4,797 Posts
    • 13,192 Thanks
    barbiedoll
    or maybe he is just thinking through all the possibilities and options to come to the very best way forward for his wife and her needs not just emotionally but practically aswell.

    Its not about 'lying' behind her back or subtefuge, its about giving everything careful consideration before presenting a best case scenario about how her needs will be met and that he has considered the needs of the children aswell given the circumstances.

    Lets not forget he will be burdened financially for years to come
    which will impact any future partner / children / homes so its not like he has packed a bag and left her to the welfare state.

    I cannot imagine this is an easy decision but if you dont love someone you dont love them, its not siomething that can be forced and this man is pretty young to consider spending the rest of his life with someone he doesnt love.
    Originally posted by BBH123
    It's been a very emotive thread but I can't help but agree with much of what the poster above has said.

    I think the OP is one of those people with a very analytical mindset, his job as a pilot would bear this out, and his letter seems to be his way of getting his thoughts together. Of course, he shouldn't give it to his wife (at least, not without some very heavy editing, there's no need for remarks about how he would have left years ago etc) but at the end of the day, he's going to leave anyway. He's already emotionally out of the relationship.

    I don't think that comments about bringing kids into a marriage already burdened by disability, are helpful. I'm guessing that children were a choice made by both him and his wife, but no-one's blaming her for that choice. I suppose she didn't take into account a marriage breakdown, but then again, who does?

    There's no easy answers, that's for sure. As OP says, money is not an issue so at least it will cushion the blow. He will be able to shield his children from the burden of caring as much as anyone can I guess.
    What a horrible situation for all concerned though. You all have my sympathy.
    "I may be many things but not being indiscreet isn't one of them"
    • Gavin83
    • By Gavin83 9th Oct 17, 11:08 PM
    • 4,715 Posts
    • 7,496 Thanks
    Gavin83
    The letter he had drafted was cruel and uncalled for.
    Originally posted by Judi
    Quite. This kind of thing needs to be discussed face to face. He does at least appear to have taken this on board.

    It's an incredibly difficult situation for all involved and regardless of what happens people will get hurt. As you say it's damage limitation, a case of minimising the hurt for all involved. I don't think it's healthy for any of them for him to stay in a loveless marriage but similarly he can't just dump them either. It's a balancing act and I hope it works out the best it can do.
    • KxMx
    • By KxMx 10th Oct 17, 9:23 AM
    • 7,217 Posts
    • 10,134 Thanks
    KxMx
    It's been a very emotive thread but I can't help but agree with much of what the poster above has said.

    I think the OP is one of those people with a very analytical mindset, his job as a pilot would bear this out, and his letter seems to be his way of getting his thoughts together. Of course, he shouldn't give it to his wife (at least, not without some very heavy editing, there's no need for remarks about how he would have left years ago etc) but at the end of the day, he's going to leave anyway. He's already emotionally out of the relationship.

    I don't think that comments about bringing kids into a marriage already burdened by disability, are helpful. I'm guessing that children were a choice made by both him and his wife, but no-one's blaming her for that choice. I suppose she didn't take into account a marriage breakdown, but then again, who does?

    There's no easy answers, that's for sure. As OP says, money is not an issue so at least it will cushion the blow. He will be able to shield his children from the burden of caring as much as anyone can I guess.
    What a horrible situation for all concerned though. You all have my sympathy.
    Originally posted by barbiedoll
    I feel my replies on this thread show that I feel both were indeed responsible, and i only very briefly hinted at my true feelings about that, because it wouldn't have been helpful.

    Indeed many have replied around urging the OP towards better care for his children, putting the relationship issue aside and seemingly accepting OPs view that the marriage is over.
    • moneyistooshorttomention
    • By moneyistooshorttomention 10th Oct 17, 1:22 PM
    • 14,190 Posts
    • 38,481 Thanks
    moneyistooshorttomention
    Just to clarify here are people suggesting he should stay in a loveless marriage or am I misunderstanding this? Alternatively are people suggesting he leave her and take the kids with him which probably seems the worst possible outcome for her. Seems to be a lot of people telling him he's horrible for writing the letter but offering very little suggestion as to what the best option is.
    Originally posted by Gavin83
    I must admit I can understand why the flood of condemnation for the poster - but havent actually spotted any constructive solutions to this dilemma yet.

    An assumption I've frequently seen on this thread is that many have assumed it was a joint decision to have children. We don't know that. It may have been. It may not have been. This is unclear and we cant tell whether they both sat down and had a "Shall we have children and, if so, when?" discussion (as one would hope) or she made the decision on her own and turned round and presented him with a fait accompli. This is not at all clear.
    #MeToo

    Ain't neva gonna learn to be a good "woman"
    • missprice
    • By missprice 10th Oct 17, 2:23 PM
    • 3,275 Posts
    • 97,621 Thanks
    missprice
    I must admit I can understand why the flood of condemnation for the poster - but havent actually spotted any constructive solutions to this dilemma yet.

    An assumption I've frequently seen on this thread is that many have assumed it was a joint decision to have children. We don't know that. It may have been. It may not have been. This is unclear and we cant tell whether they both sat down and had a "Shall we have children and, if so, when?" discussion (as one would hope) or she made the decision on her own and turned round and presented him with a fait accompli. This is not at all clear.
    Originally posted by moneyistooshorttomention
    According to the OP he has wanted to leave for years, the kids are 4 and 5? It's not hard to do the math and see that quite probably when these children were conceived the OP already wanted out.
    Even then if he didn't want children, I know of two failsafe ways of not getting a woman pregnant. It's not entirely OPs fault these children are here, but he could have done more, even if his wife was absolutely insistent, don't mean you can't say no, she is chair bound, how much can she do without his consent?
    84 mortgage payments to go.

    Zero wins 2016 😥
    • Helen2k8
    • By Helen2k8 10th Oct 17, 2:57 PM
    • 346 Posts
    • 1,981 Thanks
    Helen2k8
    I only made it 5 pages in.

    Disagreeing with OP is not vitriolic! I have seen no vitriol.

    Marriages break down all the time, and additional needs can of course be life changing and draining. It's none of my business whether you should leave or not.

    However, that letter and the logic behind it is callous and cruel.
    If OP makes all these plans before breathing a word to his wife, then he has utterly disempowered her. I wouldn't presume to do that to a child, never mind a grown adult. She has a right to decide her own future, for goodness' sake! The letter is all about what OP wants. OP is playing the benevolent dictator with somebody's life and it turns my stomach.

    As for posting somebody's personal medical details on a public forum - that is truly disgusting and a board guide should know better.
    • annandale
    • By annandale 10th Oct 17, 3:02 PM
    • 926 Posts
    • 1,981 Thanks
    annandale
    How much can she do without his consent? Seriously?

    People in unhappy relationships can and do have sex you know.

    I agree. Entirely inappropriate posting this level of content on a public forum.
    • lillie421
    • By lillie421 10th Oct 17, 3:18 PM
    • 44 Posts
    • 23 Thanks
    lillie421
    I agree with the above comments and I do not suggest giving her that letter. Why not talk to her? Surely you are comfortable talking to her after being married for 12 years. That letter comes across as very blunt and that would really hurt her.
    Talking to her is all I can suggest.
    • moneyistooshorttomention
    • By moneyistooshorttomention 10th Oct 17, 3:55 PM
    • 14,190 Posts
    • 38,481 Thanks
    moneyistooshorttomention
    According to the OP he has wanted to leave for years, the kids are 4 and 5? It's not hard to do the math and see that quite probably when these children were conceived the OP already wanted out.
    Even then if he didn't want children, I know of two failsafe ways of not getting a woman pregnant. It's not entirely OPs fault these children are here, but he could have done more, even if his wife was absolutely insistent, don't mean you can't say no, she is chair bound, how much can she do without his consent?
    Originally posted by missprice
    Another possibility is, of course, that it was when the children turned up that he started wanting out - because she might have made their decision on her own and, after that, he felt he couldnt trust her. I can think of 4 women I know that made such a decision on their own and the husband concerned has left 3 of them.

    As I said - we don't know. OP hasnt said.
    Last edited by moneyistooshorttomention; 10-10-2017 at 3:58 PM.
    #MeToo

    Ain't neva gonna learn to be a good "woman"
    • Ozzuk
    • By Ozzuk 10th Oct 17, 5:01 PM
    • 1,174 Posts
    • 1,717 Thanks
    Ozzuk
    I can see where you are coming from OP. In your head this is pretty much over and a done deal. Maybe the letter is more for you, and as tempting as it may be sharing it with her would be a terrible idea, thankfully that you now see.

    You need to talk to your wife. She could already be worrying about the impact her illness is having on the family. Either at counselling, or on your own you need to tell her you are struggling, aren't happy, not sure about the future - at least start her thinking that this may be over.

    If you don't do this, then you'll be fine as you've mentally prepared but for her it will be out of the blue. She'll have to deal with kids, illness, new carer, losing you - all of it. Soften the blow by communicating, you owe her that much. She is an adult and your partner, maybe she will have ideas for making things better, maybe separate lives but in the same house for instance, whatever, at least try and deal with it together.

    It may get to the point she absolutely doesn't want to split up, won't deal with any of it but at least you will have tried to do things the right way, and you may even surprise yourself once you back off from 'it's all over' and see something worth saving.

    Good luck.
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