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    • Westminster
    • By Westminster 7th Oct 17, 4:46 PM
    • 819Posts
    • 501Thanks
    Westminster
    Considering separation from Disabled partner
    • #1
    • 7th Oct 17, 4:46 PM
    Considering separation from Disabled partner 7th Oct 17 at 4:46 PM
    Hi all

    Forgive me if this reads liked jumbled ramblings but this is my thought process so far.

    Background
    We have been married for 12 years.
    We own a mortgaged property together - it’s in both our names but I don’t recall (without digging out the paperwork) whether it’s joint tenancy or tenants in common.

    Draft letter to my wife
    I have been drafting some text to put in a letter to my wife as I expect it all to get very emotionally charged very quickly and I want to make sure I get everything across even if it’s much later that she reads it:

    Firstly I realise that while it is very difficult for me to say these things, it will likely be very significantly harder for you to hear them and for that I apologise. What follows is a rather rambling selection of my thoughts and decision making process over this difficult situation.

    I have been unhappy in our relationship for quite some time although have made several attempts to force myself to change my feelings / views but I have been unable to do so.

    I am finding the physical and emotional demands of helping you meet your daily needs too difficult and it is making me very depressed. However I am not ‘blaming’ you for this - I just feel that we have grown apart in the same way many ‘normal’ couples would, we just have an extra dynamic. In all honesty, if it were not for your MS, I would probably have left several years ago so I really have tried hard to make this work.

    While I still have affection for you and do care what happens to you moving forward, I have not felt love for a long time and have felt somewhat trapped by our situation and your condition as I would otherwise have probably done something about this a few years ago.

    I know you have been sad for some time (possibly also depressed?) but have avoided trying to confront it as I didn’t want all this to come out before I had got your situation as ‘ready’ as possible for my departure. To this end, I have been trying where possible to put on a ‘front’ to keep things together due to the above.

    Perhaps you are wondering if there is anyone else in my life - I can 100% percent say that there is nobody else and never has been anyone else. I haven’t as much as held someone else’s hand and I have no interest in finding anyone else at this time.

    The boys are the most important thing to me and to help secure their future I intend to do what I can to keep my flying career so that I can continue to provide you all with a secure home. I hope their sunny disposition can help you through this and will always be on hand to help as and when I can.

    I want to be very clear that I would love to have the boys living with me but its impractical with my work schedule and very unfair for you.

    I hope we can maintain shared custody so that some of the time when I am home (and when convenient to you) the boys could live with me for some of the time.

    I hope that we can keep a good relationship / communication going forward and while I fully expect this news to be extremely difficult, I also think you would very much prefer to keep the boys living with you and I am happy for them to do that and hope we can arrange an informal access program to fit in with my work etc. I intend to rent a property nearby so that I can help out with them as much as possible and so that we can share access / custody of the boys - particularly during the school holidays.

    I hope that once the initial dust has settled, we will be able to share the parenting decisions as much as is possible.

    Obviously the cats were a gift and I am happy for you to keep them. In fact there is very little I would want to take with me apart from those few items I would naturally see as ‘mine’ which would be laptop / server, my car etc. Everything else is up for discussion and I’m happy to leave you with pretty much everything else as you choose. While you may not want me back inside the house, if you do need any help with internet etc them I am happy to offer assistance. I will try to get as much as possible about the household accounts all together so there isn’t much you need to do.

    I’m taking my time over this process before I tell you as I want to make sure your situation is as stable as possible before I leave. I am hopeful that after the initial sense of loss from having to start using aids etc, that you ultimately feel better as your agency staff will be here solely for your needs so you won’t ever feel like you are ‘disturbing’ someone else when you need something.

    I haven’t yet had any professional advice on how the house / finances should be split but will probably do so before I tell you. My aim is to try to maintain the status-quo as much as possible. We don’t have any debts apart from the mortgage and I realise you won’t be able to buy me out of my part of the house so probably I will see if there is a way for me to keep my name / share in the property while you all continue to live there. I will then seek professional advice on what level of financial provision I will be required - but my intention is to fully meet my commitments.
    Last edited by Westminster; 07-10-2017 at 4:54 PM.
    Hi. Martin has asked me to tell you I'm a Board Guide on the following boards: Mortgages & Endowments, Mortgage-Free Wannabe, House Buying, Renting & Selling, Small Biz & Charities' MoneySaving and Charities.

    I'm a volunteer to help the boards run smoothly, and I can move and merge posts on there. Board guides are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an inappropriate or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com (it's not part of my role to deal with this). Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com.
Page 6
    • Lambyr
    • By Lambyr 9th Oct 17, 9:49 AM
    • 365 Posts
    • 1,647 Thanks
    Lambyr
    It will be his 'best case scenario' though, won't it?

    I've no issue that he plans on breaking up with her; although mild concern he ever thought that letter was a good idea. People drift apart, split up, that happens, it's unfortunate but it's fine.

    But what he's doing now is dictating. He's going to leave but it's going to be on his terms. He's going to do what he needs to do to assuage his own conscience, hence the cats, and the planning and everything because he thinks that is somehow the right thing to do.

    Yet throughout all of this, he ceases to treat her like she's a sapient being. At some point, after she's finished crying, perhaps when she's got through the angry phase, she'll do the maths. She'll work out how long it would have taken, and how much effort has gone into all these plans. If she currently has no idea what he's planning, do you think that'll make it better? Do you think she'll feel good about that? Or do you think she'll feel worse? Like a fool, perhaps? Do you think that will help her depression? Do you think that'll help the kids while she deals with that? I'm not convinced, myself.

    He could have treated her with some respect. He could have spoken to her when he realised that there was no future in the relationship. That way, he would have given her some ownership of the situation. Tears would still be shed, voices might be raised, there would still be the hurt, the pain - that much is unavoidable. However, he would at least have treated her with some dignity because she would have had some input in dealing with all these practicalities.

    The way he's approaching this, there is only one voice in the discussion and that's his. Nothing he has said suggests she's incapable of making decisions, so when his actions affect her life, the decent thing is to involve her from the start. His way of dealing with is to basically say, "This is what I have come up with. This is situation. Deal. With. It."
    She would always like to say,
    Why change the past when you can own this day?
    • Pollycat
    • By Pollycat 9th Oct 17, 9:53 AM
    • 18,553 Posts
    • 47,763 Thanks
    Pollycat
    I agree from the partner's point of view but what about the children?
    Originally posted by thepurplepixie
    Hasn't the OP planned to make sure the children are OK?
    • Top Girl
    • By Top Girl 9th Oct 17, 10:22 AM
    • 1,106 Posts
    • 7,749 Thanks
    Top Girl
    The OP is the most patronising person I've had the misfortune to read on the internet in quite some time.



    Being in a wheelchair with physical impairment doesnít mean you canít be a mummy.
    Originally posted by AnotherUserAcc


    It doesn't mean you can't be a wife either.
    • Westminster
    • By Westminster 9th Oct 17, 10:28 AM
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    • 501 Thanks
    Westminster
    My wife is fully engaged (and always was) in the external agency process as regardless of whether I leave or not, we need a replacement for the current carer while I am away with work.
    Hi. Martin has asked me to tell you I'm a Board Guide on the following boards: Mortgages & Endowments, Mortgage-Free Wannabe, House Buying, Renting & Selling, Small Biz & Charities' MoneySaving and Charities.

    I'm a volunteer to help the boards run smoothly, and I can move and merge posts on there. Board guides are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an inappropriate or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com (it's not part of my role to deal with this). Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com.
    • Westminster
    • By Westminster 9th Oct 17, 10:30 AM
    • 819 Posts
    • 501 Thanks
    Westminster
    The OP is the most patronising person I've had the misfortune to read on the internet in quite some time.






    It doesn't mean you can't be a wife either.
    Originally posted by Top Girl
    Simply a response to the several individuals who were intimating that my wife was in some way not capable of any involvement and the children would be raised entirely by a third-party carer.
    Hi. Martin has asked me to tell you I'm a Board Guide on the following boards: Mortgages & Endowments, Mortgage-Free Wannabe, House Buying, Renting & Selling, Small Biz & Charities' MoneySaving and Charities.

    I'm a volunteer to help the boards run smoothly, and I can move and merge posts on there. Board guides are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an inappropriate or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com (it's not part of my role to deal with this). Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com.
    • Lambyr
    • By Lambyr 9th Oct 17, 10:32 AM
    • 365 Posts
    • 1,647 Thanks
    Lambyr
    My wife is fully engaged (and always was) in the external agency process as regardless of whether I leave or not, we need a replacement for the current carer while I am away with work.
    Originally posted by Westminster
    That's good. No reason not to fully engage her with the rest of your preparations to leave then, really, is there?
    She would always like to say,
    Why change the past when you can own this day?
    • Westminster
    • By Westminster 9th Oct 17, 10:35 AM
    • 819 Posts
    • 501 Thanks
    Westminster
    That's good. No reason not to fully engage her with the rest of your preparations to leave then, really, is there?
    Originally posted by Lambyr
    Let's just return again to the first word of the title - 'considering'.

    I'm still making up my mind whether its something I am going to put up and shut up with (as so many other posters kindly indicate is the best approach in their opinion) - or more likely that we go to visit relate (as I have stated is my intention several times).

    So the preparations are for something that may not occur so its not relevant yet.
    Hi. Martin has asked me to tell you I'm a Board Guide on the following boards: Mortgages & Endowments, Mortgage-Free Wannabe, House Buying, Renting & Selling, Small Biz & Charities' MoneySaving and Charities.

    I'm a volunteer to help the boards run smoothly, and I can move and merge posts on there. Board guides are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an inappropriate or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com (it's not part of my role to deal with this). Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com.
    • Lambyr
    • By Lambyr 9th Oct 17, 10:47 AM
    • 365 Posts
    • 1,647 Thanks
    Lambyr
    We can go back to that word as much as you like, it doesn't change the fact that you are making preparations, does it? And it is the making of said preparations that is the telling bit which does make it relevant.

    Have you discussed going to Relate with her yet? And if you do, are you going to be honest and tell her that you've been making these preparations? The effectiveness of any form of counselling directly correlates with the honesty of the participants.
    She would always like to say,
    Why change the past when you can own this day?
    • thepurplepixie
    • By thepurplepixie 9th Oct 17, 10:51 AM
    • 940 Posts
    • 1,650 Thanks
    thepurplepixie
    But any split up can be like that can't it,

    there is never a 'nice' way to split up , always a party will be hurt more than the other is if its not their decision.

    This from the OP to me sounds like him chewing the cud, trying to think of all the possiblities and options and coming on here to glean some perspective.

    There are clearly some on here who think he should put up and shut up but i'm not one of them.

    Heartbreak comes to all of us whether we are disabled or not.
    Originally posted by BBH123
    The children are still quite young to cope with the life he is proposing. He shouldn't kid himself that it won't affect the kids. With the family I quoted earlier the child felt unable to choose a university away from home as they had a sense of responsibility for the mother, carers are great but the kids will almost inevitably feel a burden of responsibility. This man chose to have children with a woman who was disabled and 5 years later is off. Sorry I think that is awful behaviour.
    • Pollycat
    • By Pollycat 9th Oct 17, 10:51 AM
    • 18,553 Posts
    • 47,763 Thanks
    Pollycat
    Let's just return again to the first word of the title - 'considering'.

    I'm still making up my mind whether its something I am going to put up and shut up with (as so many other posters kindly indicate is the best approach in their opinion) - or more likely that we go to visit relate (as I have stated is my intention several times).

    So the preparations are for something that may not occur so its not relevant yet.
    Originally posted by Westminster
    I really can't understand how someone could write that letter and then say they are only 'considering' leaving.
    • Westminster
    • By Westminster 9th Oct 17, 10:54 AM
    • 819 Posts
    • 501 Thanks
    Westminster
    I really can't understand how someone could write that letter and then say they are only 'considering' leaving.
    Originally posted by Pollycat
    Primarily due to the various reasons already stated above by various other posters (and obviously being on my mind before I came here).

    The fallout for my wife & children is what is stopping me just up and leaving.

    There is obviously no easy answer as demonstrated by my own unclear thought process in this matter and the lack of one unifying 'solution' posted in the last 110 replies.
    Hi. Martin has asked me to tell you I'm a Board Guide on the following boards: Mortgages & Endowments, Mortgage-Free Wannabe, House Buying, Renting & Selling, Small Biz & Charities' MoneySaving and Charities.

    I'm a volunteer to help the boards run smoothly, and I can move and merge posts on there. Board guides are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an inappropriate or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com (it's not part of my role to deal with this). Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com.
    • Pollycat
    • By Pollycat 9th Oct 17, 11:01 AM
    • 18,553 Posts
    • 47,763 Thanks
    Pollycat
    You mean they will be housed, fed and cared for by a succession of carers? Oh yes, the ideal childhood.
    Originally posted by thepurplepixie
    I didn't say it was an ideal childhood.
    I think you'll find it was the OP who's considering the arrangements for the children.

    Have you thought of the psychological damage this will do, that these children will feel responsible for their mother when they should be able to just be carefree kids. There is more to children being OK than a house and food you know.
    Originally posted by thepurplepixie
    I think you should ask the OP if he has thought about the psychological damage this will do.
    • Lambyr
    • By Lambyr 9th Oct 17, 11:15 AM
    • 365 Posts
    • 1,647 Thanks
    Lambyr
    Primarily due to the various reasons already stated above by various other posters (and obviously being on my mind before I came here).

    The fallout for my wife & children is what is stopping me just up and leaving.

    There is obviously no easy answer as demonstrated by my own unclear thought process in this matter and the lack of one unifying 'solution' posted in the last 110 replies.
    Originally posted by Westminster
    Is this not a reason to involve her now? I get that in your own way you are trying to consider everyone but you're only hearing your voice in a discussion that affects four people. The kids are too young to make decisions such as this, so you and your wife need to - but your wife can't do that if you're not giving her a voice.

    You should be honest with her - with a little more tact than that letter - by opening up the discussion. "Considering" or not, there is no point pretending that you're going to be here ten years down the line and happy with it all if things remain the same. At least if you tell her that there are problems then you give her a voice, you increase her options and if 'considering' becomes 'decided' then she will have had some chance to make her own preparations if Relate, or other such things, do not work out.
    She would always like to say,
    Why change the past when you can own this day?
    • fairy lights
    • By fairy lights 9th Oct 17, 11:29 AM
    • 8,334 Posts
    • 27,974 Thanks
    fairy lights
    In all honesty, if it were not for your MS, I would probably have left several years ago so I really have tried hard to make this work.
    Originally posted by Westminster
    Wow. You really couldn't have made this letter any more hurtful if you'd tried.
    • Top Girl
    • By Top Girl 9th Oct 17, 11:56 AM
    • 1,106 Posts
    • 7,749 Thanks
    Top Girl
    My twopence worth.


    For a bit of context, I was born to a bi polar mother. I was born in 1981 and in those days, a lot of mental illness in females was considered to be directly connected to the womb, hysteria etc. They advised that it would be beneficial to my mum to have children. Needless to say, this was not the case.


    My mum's illness had been hidden from my dad until they married. It sounds ludicrous these days, but in the time of not living together before marriage and relatively short courtships/no overnight dates, it was easy to do. They bought a house, moved in after marriage and it soon became apparent that she was seriously ill.


    Unsurprisingly, her illness worsened over the years. My dad struggled to cope and ended up divorcing her and moving into the spare room when I was nine. My younger brother and I grew up with all the pressure and uncertainty that being a young carer brings.


    When I was eleven, my dad was dating someone else and my mum had met a man whilst in hospital *rolls eyes to high heaven* and announced she wanted to move him into our family home.


    In his 'wisdom', my dad decided to move in with the new woman (who had no interest in my brother or I) and left my brother and I with my mother and the man she had met whilst he was being treated for drink and drug induced mania. Yes, really.


    After 10 months, my brother and I were removed from our home by the Police and placed into care.


    Whilst I've ended up quite well balanced all things considered, I've never been able to forgive my dad for walking out and away from us, leaving us in a situation he couldn't handle, yet expecting us as children to. I also suffer from anxiety and have issues around abandonment and self-esteem.
    My younger brother couldn't cope with what happened to us at all and drank himself to death at 31. This was despite the majority of our basic biological needs being met; we were fed, clothed and had a warm home.


    Whilst MS is obviously a world away from bi polar, you made those children and to leave them in an environment that is too much for you to handle is frankly abhorrent.
    • andydownes123
    • By andydownes123 9th Oct 17, 1:00 PM
    • 120 Posts
    • 200 Thanks
    andydownes123
    Easy to criticize the guy from afar. The minority (and I mean the minority) can contribute and advise on this kind of decision. The rest of you should wind your necks in. He clearly is at the end of his tether. You lot should be ashamed of yourselves.
    • Torry Quine
    • By Torry Quine 9th Oct 17, 1:02 PM
    • 17,011 Posts
    • 26,031 Thanks
    Torry Quine
    My twopence worth.


    For a bit of context, I was born to a bi polar mother. I was born in 1981 and in those days, a lot of mental illness in females was considered to be directly connected to the womb, hysteria etc. They advised that it would be beneficial to my mum to have children. Needless to say, this was not the case.


    My mum's illness had been hidden from my dad until they married. It sounds ludicrous these days, but in the time of not living together before marriage and relatively short courtships/no overnight dates, it was easy to do. They bought a house, moved in after marriage and it soon became apparent that she was seriously ill.


    Unsurprisingly, her illness worsened over the years. My dad struggled to cope and ended up divorcing her and moving into the spare room when I was nine. My younger brother and I grew up with all the pressure and uncertainty that being a young carer brings.


    When I was eleven, my dad was dating someone else and my mum had met a man whilst in hospital *rolls eyes to high heaven* and announced she wanted to move him into our family home.


    In his 'wisdom', my dad decided to move in with the new woman (who had no interest in my brother or I) and left my brother and I with my mother and the man she had met whilst he was being treated for drink and drug induced mania. Yes, really.


    After 10 months, my brother and I were removed from our home by the Police and placed into care.


    Whilst I've ended up quite well balanced all things considered, I've never been able to forgive my dad for walking out and away from us, leaving us in a situation he couldn't handle, yet expecting us as children to. I also suffer from anxiety and have issues around abandonment and self-esteem.
    My younger brother couldn't cope with what happened to us at all and drank himself to death at 31. This was despite the majority of our basic biological needs being met; we were fed, clothed and had a warm home.


    Whilst MS is obviously a world away from bi polar, you made those children and to leave them in an environment that is too much for you to handle is frankly abhorrent.
    Originally posted by Top Girl
    Thanks for that. It was very brave.
    Life is like riding a bicycle, to keep your balance you must keep moving . Albert Einstein.

    I can bear pain myself, he said softly, but I couldna bear yours. That would take more strength than I have -
    Diana Gabaldon, Outlander
    • Pollycat
    • By Pollycat 9th Oct 17, 1:09 PM
    • 18,553 Posts
    • 47,763 Thanks
    Pollycat
    Easy to criticize the guy from afar. The minority (and I mean the minority) can contribute and advise on this kind of decision. The rest of you should wind your necks in. He clearly is at the end of his tether. You lot should be ashamed of yourselves.
    Originally posted by andydownes123
    As I said earlier in the thread:
    The OP put his life on a public forum, when you do that you can't control what responses you get.
    Originally posted by Pollycat
    It really is not up to you to say who can or can't reply to any thread on this forum.

    I would expect the OP - in his position as a board guide - to endorse that.
    • Judi
    • By Judi 9th Oct 17, 1:11 PM
    • 15,454 Posts
    • 63,772 Thanks
    Judi
    As I said earlier in the thread:

    It really is not up to you to say who can or can't reply to any thread on this forum.

    I would expect the OP - in his position as a board guide - to endorse that.
    Originally posted by Pollycat
    Totally agree.
    'Holy crap on a cracker!'
    • fairy lights
    • By fairy lights 9th Oct 17, 1:12 PM
    • 8,334 Posts
    • 27,974 Thanks
    fairy lights
    Easy to criticize the guy from afar. The minority (and I mean the minority) can contribute and advise on this kind of decision. The rest of you should wind your necks in. He clearly is at the end of his tether. You lot should be ashamed of yourselves.
    Originally posted by andydownes123
    Nope, he's put it out in public, you can't do that and only expect nice, gentle responses that tell you you're doing the right thing.
    His letter and general attitude is awful and hopefully the responses here will make him rethink how he approaches this with his wife.
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