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    • bdmum1
    • By bdmum1 7th Oct 17, 1:13 PM
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    bdmum1
    ESA and Occ Pension: PIP treated like DLA?
    • #1
    • 7th Oct 17, 1:13 PM
    ESA and Occ Pension: PIP treated like DLA? 7th Oct 17 at 1:13 PM
    I've tried finding the answer to this everywhere but without success; it's quite technical so please bear with me!

    From around 2006 I was on IB with DLA, and received an Occupational pension of over £85 per week, so my IB was paid at a reduced rate.

    A few years later my DLA care was increased to Higher Rate, and so the Occupational Pension was disregarded, and the IB paid in full. When I transferred to ESA (support group) a couple of years ago, I received transactional protection, so I still receive ESA at the full rate without any adjustment for the Occupational Pension. My husband also receives Carer's Allowance.

    I'm currently going through the DLA to PIP transfer process, and having had a Face to Face assessment at home yesterday, I'm not at all convinced that PIP will be awarded at the enhanced, or even the standard rate. It really didn't feel like it was a supportive assessment at all.

    What I'm unsure of, is if my PIP is reduced to standard or even Nil, where does that leave me in relation to the ESA and Occupational Pension? Does the transitional protection remain in place, or would it stop if the enhanced PIP isn't awarded? The original qualifying condition (for the Occ Pen disregard) was the award of higher rate care on DLA, but I'm unable to find any guidance or information anywhere which says what the effect of a later reduced PIP award would be.

    Many thanks and hope someone can point me in the right direction!
Page 1
    • epitome
    • By epitome 7th Oct 17, 1:31 PM
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    epitome
    • #2
    • 7th Oct 17, 1:31 PM
    • #2
    • 7th Oct 17, 1:31 PM
    There would be 2 possible scenarios

    1. The Occ Pen 100% disregard is a right that you will never lose on ESA.
    I don't know, if this is the case, I will try to find out for you next week. If this is the case it will be the best scenario for you. But if it is not the case, then option 2 will be what happens

    2. You would have had a final amount of IB and maybe a final amount of Income Support... Do you know what your final award of
    IB was ..........
    IS was .......... or is it your partner who claimed/ still claiming IS ?

    Is your husband working? or claiming anything else apart from CA?

    Was your partner claiming Carer's Allowance to care for you when you were on IB?

    I can't say what will happen under "scenario 2" until you let me have more information.

    If you don't know, phone ESA enquiries and ask them to look in screen JA540, and tell you what it says at the top for IB and at the bottom for IS.....

    There is more info in that screen, a breakdown of each amount can be seen by going further... but they will not know how to get to it. If you feel up to it, ....by all means..... ask them for the breakdown of each... (they need to put the case number in i.e. 0001 or 0002 and press 'enter' twice.)
    Last edited by epitome; 07-10-2017 at 1:37 PM.
    • bdmum1
    • By bdmum1 7th Oct 17, 2:29 PM
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    bdmum1
    • #3
    • 7th Oct 17, 2:29 PM
    • #3
    • 7th Oct 17, 2:29 PM
    Hi epitome

    Thanks for your detailed reply.

    Apologies if I didn't make it clear, I've never have received IS, but yes my husband has been receiving Carer's Allowance for me for the last 3 years (took early retirement in 2014 to look after me).

    The DLA was changed from HR Mobility / MR Care, to LR Mobility / HR Care in 2012( as the result of an appeal) Prior to that, I think my IB had been reduced by around £50 per week because of my Occupational Pension, but the increased DLA care award meant the Occupational Pension was suddenly disregarded.

    So although we didn't agree with the reduction in Mobility component (the ATOS doctor had written that he felt I was unable to safely walk more than 10 metres), I didn't feel well enough to go through the appeals process again, and the Care increase and subsequent OCC Pension disregard more than made up for the reduction of mobility component. (Hope this is making sense!)

    So scenario 1 that you mention would obviously be wonderful, but I'm trying to prepare myself in case that's not the case if the PIP isn't awarded.

    I haven't got the IB figures to hand at the moment but could certainly get these and let you have the figures you mentioned if you still need them?

    And thank you so much for being kind enough to offer to try to find out the answer to this. I've been hitting brick walls so far!
    • epitome
    • By epitome 7th Oct 17, 2:51 PM
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    epitome
    • #4
    • 7th Oct 17, 2:51 PM
    • #4
    • 7th Oct 17, 2:51 PM
    I would like to know:

    What your final IB rate was (it would be the same as shown below)

    What rate it says in ESA screen JA540 at the top for IB?
    it will most likely have a case No. 0001 and you could ask them to put 0001 into the "case box" bottom left of the screen, and press "enter" twice then tell you what the breakdown says.

    And to confirm what rate & start date of
    ESA Conts ....
    ESA IR ........
    your claim currently holds.


    None of the above is essential, as I think I have all the info I will need, come back here next week sometime....

    Regards.
    Last edited by epitome; 07-10-2017 at 2:55 PM.
    • bdmum1
    • By bdmum1 8th Oct 17, 2:30 PM
    • 85 Posts
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    bdmum1
    • #5
    • 8th Oct 17, 2:30 PM
    • #5
    • 8th Oct 17, 2:30 PM
    Hi again

    I'm so sorry but I've had a fruitless search for my old IB docs and original ESA award; all I've got is the latest ESA awards which simply state:

    "No income will be taken off your ESA" And "Your Income Related amount is £109.65 less £0.00"

    I've not tried ringing ESA enquiries yet but can try this tomorrow if needed.

    In the meantime I don't know if a brief timeline would add anything extra:

    2005: finished work due to Ill Health and went on to IB. Rate was reduced by approx 50% due to receiving an Occ Pens in excess of £85(?)

    2005: DLA awarded at Lwr Rate Care/ Hr Rate Mobility

    2011: DLA was cancelled at review stage. Appeal lodged.

    2012: Tribunal instructed ATOS medical assessment which resulted in successful appeal and reinstatement of DLA. New award: Hr Rate Care / Lwr Rate Mobility.

    2012: IB increased to full rate as Occ Pens now disregarded because of Hr Rate DLA Care.

    2012: Transferred to ESA and placed in Support Group without F2F assessment (using recent ATOS report as evidence). Transitional Protection allowed ESA to be paid at full rate with no adjustment for Occ Pens.

    2014: Husband took early retirement (age 54) to become full time Carer and receives Carer's Allowance in addition to his own Occ Pens.

    2017: Invited to claim PIP; Home F2F Assessment carried out 4th October; awaiting decision.

    I've never received ESA (IR) but have continued on ESA (Cont) in the Support Group since 2012.

    Hope this helps in some way. Thanks again
    • epitome
    • By epitome 8th Oct 17, 3:00 PM
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    epitome
    • #6
    • 8th Oct 17, 3:00 PM
    • #6
    • 8th Oct 17, 3:00 PM
    Did you start ESA with £108.05 or £110.85

    I'm guessing £108.05 because you now have £109.65 on that letter, but could be wrong.

    Do you get £219.30 or £221.70 a fortnight?

    By the way what are your combined occ pen incomes?
    and combined savings...over £16,000? yes/no, if 'no' roughly what figure?

    You don't need to phone them, I got enough info.
    Last edited by epitome; 08-10-2017 at 3:04 PM.
    • bdmum1
    • By bdmum1 8th Oct 17, 3:44 PM
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    bdmum1
    • #7
    • 8th Oct 17, 3:44 PM
    • #7
    • 8th Oct 17, 3:44 PM
    Hi

    I've just Googled ESA benefit rates for 2012 and its stating
    • Employment and Support Allowance
    Basic Allowance(a) ___________________71.00
    Support component __________________ 34.05

    which would give £105.05?

    The earliest ESA award notice I can find is dated March 2015 which gives an award of £109.30 pwk.

    From April 2017 I've been on £109.65 pwk /£219.30 per fortnight ESA.

    Our combined Occ Pen incomes are around £22000 pa.

    Thank you
    • epitome
    • By epitome 8th Oct 17, 5:29 PM
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    epitome
    • #8
    • 8th Oct 17, 5:29 PM
    • #8
    • 8th Oct 17, 5:29 PM
    £108.05, would have been your ESA starting rate..... if that was your final rate of IB.

    Your ESA would have been
    £105.05 ESA C
    £3.00 TA transitional addition
    £108.05 total
    • epitome
    • By epitome 13th Oct 17, 12:16 AM
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    epitome
    • #9
    • 13th Oct 17, 12:16 AM
    • #9
    • 13th Oct 17, 12:16 AM
    I have not forgotten about this, just have been busy in day time....

    Will try to find out tomorrow.
    • bdmum1
    • By bdmum1 13th Oct 17, 12:20 AM
    • 85 Posts
    • 79 Thanks
    bdmum1
    No probs, thanks for taking an interest.
    • bdmum1
    • By bdmum1 20th Oct 17, 1:01 PM
    • 85 Posts
    • 79 Thanks
    bdmum1
    Hi Epitome

    I just wondered if you've had chance to get any further info on this please?

    I've had a copy of the assessor's report now and, assuming the formal decision follows the suggested points in the report, my new award would reduce from standard mobility/ higher care to zero mobility/standard care.

    This would at least mean my husband can continue to claim Carer's Allowance but still leaves us with the question of whether the Occ Pens will now need to be taken into account.

    Many thanks
    • pmlindyloo
    • By pmlindyloo 20th Oct 17, 1:08 PM
    • 10,905 Posts
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    pmlindyloo
    Despite extensive research there seems to be no information about what happens in this scenario. Everything I have found suggests that the transitional protection including that of the Occ Pen not being deducted remains.

    Perhaps Epitome will have more luck.

    My best advice is to wait and see what happens. If they should start taking the occupational pension into account then I would appeal the decision and ask under what legislation this is allowed.
    • bdmum1
    • By bdmum1 20th Oct 17, 2:52 PM
    • 85 Posts
    • 79 Thanks
    bdmum1
    Thanks for your quick response, sounds like good advice.
    • epitome
    • By epitome 20th Oct 17, 9:15 PM
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    epitome
    I am of the opinion that it will remain, even if for no other reason than the ESA Benefit Centre staff will not give it a moments thought when your PIP changes that it could affect your protected pension rights.

    Your duty to inform would only amount to informing ESA of what your DLA has changed to...but they would know this has changed anyway so there is no point telling them.

    I don't have a lot of time to look this up, but I have just thought of someone I could ask.
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