Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@.

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • datlex
    • By datlex 7th Oct 17, 12:00 PM
    • 1,456Posts
    • 1,236Thanks
    datlex
    Cope
    • #1
    • 7th Oct 17, 12:00 PM
    Cope 7th Oct 17 at 12:00 PM
    I was checking up on the current status of my pensions due to the fact I had opted out of SERPS back in the 1990s. I am in the fortunate position that due to my age I will still get the full new state pension as I am able to make enough contributions to qualify even with the changes to pensions. There was a separate amount called a COPE. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/state-pension-fact-sheets/contracting-out-and-why-we-may-have-included-a-contracted-out-pension-equivalent-cope-amount-when-you-used-the-online-service
    When I spoke to them they said the COPE was related to type of pension you had opted out to. Does any one know anything about this?
Page 1
    • GunJack
    • By GunJack 7th Oct 17, 12:40 PM
    • 9,882 Posts
    • 7,362 Thanks
    GunJack
    • #2
    • 7th Oct 17, 12:40 PM
    • #2
    • 7th Oct 17, 12:40 PM
    COPE is an estimate of what you may have built up in SERPS had you not opted out into the occupational pension scheme. When you opted out your NI was reduced.

    The way DWP/HMRC have presented the whole COPE thing has, IMHO, been confusing/misleading, when they talk about it will be paid as part of your private pension scheme...it's not, what you get from your private scheme is exactly that, what you get from your private scheme...
    ......Gettin' There, Wherever There is......
    • Silvertabby
    • By Silvertabby 7th Oct 17, 12:41 PM
    • 1,939 Posts
    • 2,458 Thanks
    Silvertabby
    • #3
    • 7th Oct 17, 12:41 PM
    • #3
    • 7th Oct 17, 12:41 PM
    COPE = confusion.

    Roughly, it's the amount of SERPS/SP2 you won't get in addition to the old basic State pension.

    In theory, the COPE will be paid your contracted out occupational/private pension - but it may be more or less than that, depending on your contracted out scheme.
    • datlex
    • By datlex 7th Oct 17, 1:11 PM
    • 1,456 Posts
    • 1,236 Thanks
    datlex
    • #4
    • 7th Oct 17, 1:11 PM
    • #4
    • 7th Oct 17, 1:11 PM
    Great thanks. I know what my opted out pension is worth with current provider. On the information they sent they said I could transfer to another provider. So I now need to research which provider is best, leave where is or move. Obviously I want to get at least the COPE amount hopefully more.
    • Silvertabby
    • By Silvertabby 7th Oct 17, 2:38 PM
    • 1,939 Posts
    • 2,458 Thanks
    Silvertabby
    • #5
    • 7th Oct 17, 2:38 PM
    • #5
    • 7th Oct 17, 2:38 PM
    You've got the best of both worlds - a contracted out pension but enough time to accrue the full Single Tier pension.

    They way I look at it is that as I have been getting my COPE equivalent since I retired from the RAF, I have been getting what would have been my SERPS/SP2 long before I qualify for my State pension.
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 8th Oct 17, 12:04 AM
    • 89,943 Posts
    • 56,647 Thanks
    dunstonh
    • #6
    • 8th Oct 17, 12:04 AM
    • #6
    • 8th Oct 17, 12:04 AM
    Its not helped when they use the term opt-out as that never had anything to do with SERPS. You contracted out of SERPs. You didnt opt out. Opt out is the term used to describe someone who doesnt join their workplace scheme.

    The COPE information has been poorly written and described in projections.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). Comments are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice. Different people have different needs and what is right for one person may not be for another. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an Independent Financial Adviser local to you.
    • badmemory
    • By badmemory 8th Oct 17, 5:51 AM
    • 1,071 Posts
    • 1,139 Thanks
    badmemory
    • #7
    • 8th Oct 17, 5:51 AM
    • #7
    • 8th Oct 17, 5:51 AM
    Translation. I have paid full NI for many years to get my pension as have many others, you have not. The new changes mean you can get as much as us after paying in less AND you have the benefit of another pension which we do not (well certainly no where near as good).
    • GunJack
    • By GunJack 8th Oct 17, 7:18 AM
    • 9,882 Posts
    • 7,362 Thanks
    GunJack
    • #8
    • 8th Oct 17, 7:18 AM
    • #8
    • 8th Oct 17, 7:18 AM
    COPE = confusion.
    Originally posted by Silvertabby
    this is SO true
    ......Gettin' There, Wherever There is......
    • bigadaj
    • By bigadaj 8th Oct 17, 8:08 AM
    • 10,803 Posts
    • 7,100 Thanks
    bigadaj
    • #9
    • 8th Oct 17, 8:08 AM
    • #9
    • 8th Oct 17, 8:08 AM
    Translation. I have paid full NI for many years to get my pension as have many others, you have not. The new changes mean you can get as much as us after paying in less AND you have the benefit of another pension which we do not (well certainly no where near as good).
    Originally posted by badmemory
    Sarky but true.
    • Silvertabby
    • By Silvertabby 8th Oct 17, 12:41 PM
    • 1,939 Posts
    • 2,458 Thanks
    Silvertabby
    “ Translation. I have paid full NI for many years to get my pension as have many others, you have not. The new changes mean you can get as much as us after paying in less AND you have the benefit of another pension which we do not (well certainly no where near as good).
    Originally posted by badmemory
    Sarky but true. Posted by bigadaj
    It's just the way it goes. Someone currently in their 50s who has always been contracted out would have a 2016 foundation amount of at least £120 per week (the old basic State pension). If they carry on working for a least 9 years, they will get the full Single Tier pension of £160 per week plus their full contracted out pension.

    However, they will pay FULL NI for the post 2016 years. I know people say the NI rebate is peanuts - but it's actually about £25 per month (plus £75 per month employer's rebate) for someone earning £25K.
    Last edited by Silvertabby; 08-10-2017 at 1:12 PM.
    • bigadaj
    • By bigadaj 8th Oct 17, 1:18 PM
    • 10,803 Posts
    • 7,100 Thanks
    bigadaj
    It's just the way it goes. Someone currently in their 50s who has always been contracted out would have a 2016 foundation amount of at least £120 per week (the old basic State pension). If they carry on working for a least 9 years, they will get the full Single Tier pension of £160 per week plus their full contracted out pension.

    However, they will pay FULL NI for the post 2016 years. I know people say the NI rebate is peanuts - but it's actually about £25 per month (plus £75 per month employer's rebate) for someone earning £25K.
    Originally posted by Silvertabby
    So an extra £40 per week on paying £25 a month, tough life.
    • Silvertabby
    • By Silvertabby 8th Oct 17, 1:50 PM
    • 1,939 Posts
    • 2,458 Thanks
    Silvertabby
    “ It's just the way it goes. Someone currently in their 50s who has always been contracted out would have a 2016 foundation amount of at least £120 per week (the old basic State pension). If they carry on working for a least 9 years, they will get the full Single Tier pension of £160 per week plus their full contracted out pension.

    However, they will pay FULL NI for the post 2016 years. I know people say the NI rebate is peanuts - but it's actually about £25 per month (plus £75 per month employer's rebate) for someone earning £25K.
    Originally posted by Silvertabby
    So an extra £40 per week on paying £25 a month, tough life. Posted by bigadaj
    Yes, it's a brilliant deal - but you should have heard the complaints from some LGPS members when we (pensions department) published details of the changes, including the removal of the NI rebate. We tried to make out what a great deal it was - but some people were so angry at having to pay this extra money they actually opted out of the LGPS, claiming they couldn't afford 2 pensions!
    • bigadaj
    • By bigadaj 8th Oct 17, 4:10 PM
    • 10,803 Posts
    • 7,100 Thanks
    bigadaj
    Yes, it's a brilliant deal - but you should have heard the complaints from some LGPS members when we (pensions department) published details of the changes, including the removal of the NI rebate. We tried to make out what a great deal it was - but some people were so angry at having to pay this extra money they actually opted out of the LGPS, claiming they couldn't afford 2 pensions!
    Originally posted by Silvertabby
    Well some saving for the hard pressed taxpayer then.
    • GunJack
    • By GunJack 8th Oct 17, 4:20 PM
    • 9,882 Posts
    • 7,362 Thanks
    GunJack
    Yes, it's a brilliant deal - but you should have heard the complaints from some LGPS members when we (pensions department) published details of the changes, including the removal of the NI rebate. We tried to make out what a great deal it was - but some people were so angry at having to pay this extra money they actually opted out of the LGPS, claiming they couldn't afford 2 pensions!
    Originally posted by Silvertabby
    Jeez, did they really not understand it that badly??

    Perhaps employers should have a legal obligation to save their employees from gross stupidity
    ......Gettin' There, Wherever There is......
    • Silvertabby
    • By Silvertabby 8th Oct 17, 4:30 PM
    • 1,939 Posts
    • 2,458 Thanks
    Silvertabby
    Jeez, did they really not understand it that badly??

    Perhaps employers should have a legal obligation to save their employees from gross stupidity Posted by GunJack
    It's illegal not to allow people to opt out. LGPS administrators just administer the pension scheme, and are not allowed by law to offer actual advice. I used to tell people what they would be giving up by opting out, but most couldn't see past the extra money they would have to spend now.
    • GunJack
    • By GunJack 8th Oct 17, 4:47 PM
    • 9,882 Posts
    • 7,362 Thanks
    GunJack
    Sad... in the CS dept. I was in, no-one at all would've ever considered opting out. In some ways the LGPS is even better, as transfers out are possible....
    ......Gettin' There, Wherever There is......
    • datlex
    • By datlex 8th Oct 17, 5:32 PM
    • 1,456 Posts
    • 1,236 Thanks
    datlex
    Translation. I have paid full NI for many years to get my pension as have many others, you have not. The new changes mean you can get as much as us after paying in less AND you have the benefit of another pension which we do not (well certainly no where near as good).
    Originally posted by badmemory
    Actually I didn't pay less National Insurance. What happened is that a portion (rebate) went to a private pension. This would have gone towards the Second State pension had I not contracted out. It is unfortunate for you that the government has effectively stolen from you the second state pension that you have contributed to. Also for information I only will get a state pension due to enough qualifying years same as everyone else.
    • Silvertabby
    • By Silvertabby 8th Oct 17, 6:25 PM
    • 1,939 Posts
    • 2,458 Thanks
    Silvertabby
    Sad... in the CS dept. I was in, no-one at all would've ever considered opting out. In some ways the LGPS is even better, as transfers out are possible.... Posted by GunJack
    Were you in uniform in the 1980s, during the private pensions mis-selling debacle? Even though the Armed Forces pension scheme was (notionally) non-contributory, private pensions sellers still tried to pursuade members of the Armed Forces to opt out in favour of a private plan. If anyone had insisted on opting out, then the RAF couldn't have legally stopped them. However, we had a cunning plan...... First step would be to speak to a Cpl or Sgt in PSF, who would tell them that if they did opt out then their take-home pay would actually drop as they would have to pay more NI. That nipped most of them in the bud. Second step would be an interview with an old school Warrant Officer, Third step would be an interview with a Junior officer, and final step would be signing the opt out forms in the presence of a Senior officer.

    No one got past the Warrant Officer, who loudly explained to them in basic barrack room language exactly why they shouldn't opt out.
    Last edited by Silvertabby; 08-10-2017 at 8:56 PM.
    • GunJack
    • By GunJack 8th Oct 17, 9:30 PM
    • 9,882 Posts
    • 7,362 Thanks
    GunJack
    Were you in uniform in the 1980s, during the private pensions mis-selling debacle? Even though the Armed Forces pension scheme was (notionally) non-contributory, private pensions sellers still tried to pursuade members of the Armed Forces to opt out in favour of a private plan. If anyone had insisted on opting out, then the RAF couldn't have legally stopped them. However, we had a cunning plan...... First step would be to speak to a Cpl or Sgt in PSF, who would tell them that if they did opt out then their take-home pay would actually drop as they would have to pay more NI. That nipped most of them in the bud. Second step would be an interview with an old school Warrant Officer, Third step would be an interview with a Junior officer, and final step would be signing the opt out forms in the presence of a Senior officer.

    No one got past the Warrant Officer, who loudly explained to them in basic barrack room language exactly why they shouldn't opt out.
    Originally posted by Silvertabby
    No, hun, never in uniform, always CS...but there were still plenty of THAT type of WO's around so know exactly what you mean
    ......Gettin' There, Wherever There is......
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

212Posts Today

1,251Users online

Martin's Twitter