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    • poppystar
    • By poppystar 7th Oct 17, 9:55 AM
    • 228Posts
    • 644Thanks
    poppystar
    Power of attorney - mental capacity
    • #1
    • 7th Oct 17, 9:55 AM
    Power of attorney - mental capacity 7th Oct 17 at 9:55 AM
    Apologies if I'm posting in the wrong bit of the forum, feel free to direct me elsewhere, but I know that power of attorney is sometimes discussed here.


    I'm looking for some guidance on what constitutes mental incapacity sufficient for the power of attorney to come into force. Clearly loss of capacity is not always something that happens overnight.

    Also, is it necessary to get something in writing from a GP or hospital to effectively give the go ahead to use power of attorney powers so that there is no possible accusation by others of abusing power or jumping in too early.

    I have looked at the Gov site but can't find definitive information on this.


    Many thanks
    Last edited by poppystar; 07-10-2017 at 9:56 AM. Reason: Edit. To clarify I am talking about a situation where the PoA is already registered and waiting
Page 2
    • badmemory
    • By badmemory 7th Oct 17, 10:00 PM
    • 808 Posts
    • 785 Thanks
    badmemory
    Which is really why I was seeking guidance in the first place. When can an attorney take over without being asked by donor?

    Surely someone giving all their money away as in Margot's example or calling emergency ambulances every week for months only to be sent home after 24 hours of tests finding nothing wrong could be said to be beginning to need help? Ditto not eating adequate food etc.

    Not wanting to invoke it to save any inheritance from being frittered away or any selfish reasons but simply to ensure the donor has the life they would have previously wanted. I was hoping there was some acid test that could be applied to say someone needed PoA to step in and that protected the butt of attorney from any suggestion they were not acting in donor's best interests.
    Originally posted by poppystar
    We now have a problem where if a hospital admits that a patient is vulnerable they get stuck in there until they can sort something (bed blocking), which at the moment no-one seems to be financially able to do. So they are in denial.

    Until recently the whole neighbourhood knew that one of the neighbours had bad dementia. Things like walking past our houses in his underwear, being aggressive, this apparantly was alright because he'd always been a bit that way inclined. A single parent almost losing her children because they were talking at school about seeing someones bare a***. Even the police were called when he was seen (partly by schoolchildren) waving a gun out of a window. Loaded by the way. What happened? the police took the loaded gun off him & walked away. No further action.

    He's gone from here but not actually gone. Before last Xmas he had a bad fall. He went into hospital. They let him out telling his also elderly relatives that he wouldn't last the week so they agreed to take care of him & for that week they had district nurses etc to help care for him. The hospital lied of course just to get him out of there. The relatives are now at the end of their tether almost 10 months later.
    • Yorkshireman99
    • By Yorkshireman99 7th Oct 17, 10:11 PM
    • 3,154 Posts
    • 2,478 Thanks
    Yorkshireman99

    . Even the police were called when he was seen (partly by schoolchildren) waving a gun out of a window. Loaded by the way. What happened? the police took the loaded gun off him & walked away. No further action.
    Originally posted by badmemory
    Quite implausible! No way would the police leave it like that.
    • badmemory
    • By badmemory 8th Oct 17, 4:56 AM
    • 808 Posts
    • 785 Thanks
    badmemory
    Quite implausible! No way would the police leave it like that.
    Originally posted by Yorkshireman99
    It does sound that way doesn't it? But they did. They also returned him home many times because he didn't know where he was (or how to get home) & several times wasn't attired for the weather. The wandering without trousers came later.

    One close neighbour was so concerned she used to write a monthly letter to his GP detailing what he had done in the last month. This would include threatening her 2 toddler grandchildren. I lived several houses away & one day found him staring in at my living room window.

    The thing is that when his wife was sick they had taken out equity release so there was no money left, so no money for a carehome, no money for the children, who franklly he had not treated well in their childhood (a euphemism for a regular use of fists). So freely translated as no-one gives a s***.
    • poppystar
    • By poppystar 8th Oct 17, 5:05 AM
    • 228 Posts
    • 644 Thanks
    poppystar
    We now have a problem where if a hospital admits that a patient is vulnerable they get stuck in there until they can sort something (bed blocking), which at the moment no-one seems to be financially able to do. So they are in denial.

    .
    Originally posted by badmemory

    Nowhere near such an extreme situation but that ^^ may go some way to explaining why the hospital seem unable to see a problem that is glaringly obvious and certainly won't discuss - hence the need to get clarification on PoA input.
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 8th Oct 17, 6:43 AM
    • 29,997 Posts
    • 17,928 Thanks
    getmore4less
    Apologies if I'm posting in the wrong bit of the forum, feel free to direct me elsewhere, but I know that power of attorney is sometimes discussed here.


    I'm looking for some guidance on what constitutes mental incapacity sufficient for the power of attorney to come into force. Clearly loss of capacity is not always something that happens overnight.

    Also, is it necessary to get something in writing from a GP or hospital to effectively give the go ahead to use power of attorney powers so that there is no possible accusation by others of abusing power or jumping in too early.

    I have looked at the Gov site but can't find definitive information on this.


    Many thanks
    Originally posted by poppystar
    As an attorney under LPA you should be familiar with the Mental Capacity Act 2005.

    this should help

    https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/497253/Mental-capacity-act-code-of-practice.pdf

    There are other official documents to assist but that should get you started.
    • Malthusian
    • By Malthusian 9th Oct 17, 11:53 AM
    • 3,077 Posts
    • 4,465 Thanks
    Malthusian
    Quite implausible! No way would the police leave it like that.
    Originally posted by Yorkshireman99
    Apparently they were no more inclined to effectively become carers for an elderly man with dementia than the local hospital was.
    • badmemory
    • By badmemory 9th Oct 17, 1:57 PM
    • 808 Posts
    • 785 Thanks
    badmemory
    Apparently they were no more inclined to effectively become carers for an elderly man with dementia than the local hospital was.
    Originally posted by Malthusian
    No but they had the ability to section him.
    • Yorkshireman99
    • By Yorkshireman99 9th Oct 17, 5:23 PM
    • 3,154 Posts
    • 2,478 Thanks
    Yorkshireman99
    No but they had the ability to section him.
    Originally posted by badmemory
    Whatever the situation it is very implausible that the police would not take the gun and make an arrest.
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