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  • FIRST POST
    • Bama88
    • By Bama88 6th Oct 17, 11:57 PM
    • 17Posts
    • 3Thanks
    Bama88
    Second county court claim form from gladstones!
    • #1
    • 6th Oct 17, 11:57 PM
    Second county court claim form from gladstones! 6th Oct 17 at 11:57 PM
    Hi Everyone,

    Please help, I'm at breaking point with these cowboys! I recently received a county court claim form from Gladstones about a month ago. Unfortunately I had to pay it as I am currently working 12 hour shifts 6 days a week and didn't have the time or energy to fight it. I work in the financial industry so can not afford to get a CCJ as it could affect my employment. I had to pay them £241 in total £160 for the ticket and the rest their costs. It killed me to pay it but I panicked. The original ticket was issued by UK Car Parking Management and was for parking in a private car park outside work, there was a new sign that I didn't notice before parking there that day. This is part of the reason I paid it as I didn't think I had a strong defence. Anyway after paying them and requesting confirmation of payment, I received nothing, 2 further calls later, I lost my temper with the rude girl on the phone. I eventually got the confirmation of payment a few weeks ago, after being hung up on! Then much to my dismay and horror, I arrived home a couple of weeks ago to another LBC from them, I didn't think much of this as I've heard they do this - send out further correspondence once cases have been closed. Due to their total incompetence. I decided to ignore this, thinking they'd realise their error, plus I didn't want to speak to them again. However today, I've arrived home to another County Claim from from Northampton for what I thought was an older ticket I had from UK Car Parking Management that I thought I'd never hear about again, as it was for parking on a road where there was absolutely no signage at all (for which I have photographic evidence) the date corresponds with this older ticket from 2016 but looking at the particulars of claim on the Claim form the offence apparently occurred in Watford..I have never even been to Watford. I'm assuming I have a pretty good defence! Any advice on how to proceed will be greatly appreciated. Please ignore all punctuation errors as I am typing this on my phone after yet another extremely long shift I refuse to pay these b****rds another penny!
Page 2
    • Bama88
    • By Bama88 10th Oct 17, 11:58 AM
    • 17 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Bama88
    Yes, correct on all points 👍🏼
    • Bama88
    • By Bama88 10th Oct 17, 12:20 PM
    • 17 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Bama88
    Yes, correct on all points 👍🏼
    • Bama88
    • By Bama88 11th Oct 17, 4:49 PM
    • 17 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Bama88
    The only day I have off to work on my defence is Sunday, any advice before then will be greatly appreciated.
    • Bama88
    • By Bama88 12th Oct 17, 11:33 PM
    • 17 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Bama88
    I don't seem to be getting much response on this post, have I don't something wrong? It was my first post so I'm thinking maybe I've messed it up somehow?
    • Redx
    • By Redx 12th Oct 17, 11:36 PM
    • 16,900 Posts
    • 21,006 Thanks
    Redx
    no you have not messed up

    your issues are legal ones so very few people can answer and we gets dozens of posts per day on here, so yours has slipped down the pages and been lost

    I certainly would not be able to answer your questions, many others wouldnt either
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Johnersh
    • By Johnersh 12th Oct 17, 11:55 PM
    • 734 Posts
    • 1,363 Thanks
    Johnersh
    You've been advised on the defence available.

    You're going to admit being keeper of the car but deny that it was parked in Watford on the material date.

    You're going to put them to proof that they were entitled to issue tickets at the address in question, which is 'The relevant land' for the purposes of POFA 2012 and any claim brought against you under that act as keeper.

    I suggest you draft it and then we can review. You will need to take parts of various template defences. I'm afraid I can rarely do bespoke pleadings on this forum with my work commitments.

    If you're drafting Sunday, when does the defence have to be filed?
    • Bama88
    • By Bama88 4th Nov 17, 5:45 PM
    • 17 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Bama88
    Gladstones Defence
    Hi everyone,

    I have been so stressed with all this and pressure at work that I've only now managed to finish my defence. It has to be sent by Monday. I know this is short notice but I wonder if anyone could look over it for me? Thanks in advance.

    In the -------County Court Case No ---------
    Between - UK Car Parking Management (Claimant) and ---------/ (Defendant)

    Defence

    I am -----------, the defendant in this matter, I currently reside at -----------.
    Save as specifically admitted in this defence, the defendant denies each and every allegation set out in the particulars of claim.
    It is admitted that the defendant is the registered keeper of the vehicle in question. However, the claimant has no cause for action against the defendant on the following grounds.

    (1) I could not knowingly have entered into any such ‘contract’ as there was no signage stating there would be a penalty charge of any kind for parking. Please see attached photographs taken by me shortly after this alleged offence occurred. These picture’s clearly show that the surrounding areas have no signs stating any kind of penalty charge.
    (2) The land in question is not an actual car park, nor does it belong to any business, so it cannot be argued that any financial loss to any business or person could have arisen from parking there. It seems these PCN’s were being given for parking in certain spaces and not others with no reason given for this or any warning in the form of signage.
    (3) I have never been supplied with any confirmation from the claimant or their agents that they actually own or have a contract with the land owner of the land in question, which would allow them to issue penalty tickets.
    (4) The information in the particulars of claim is incorrect. It states that the offence occured on -------. I can easily prove that my car was parked at my place of work on __________on that day. I have in fact never even been to _______. The very poor quality picture provided on the PCN in fact shows my car parked where I am to ‘assume’ the actual ‘alleged’ offence occurred on Curran Road, Cardiff.
    (4a) This kind of error just highlights the incompetent way in which the claimant’s solicitor’s operate. The claimant’s solicitors are known to be a serial issuer of generic claims similar to this one, with no due diligence, no scrutiny of details, nor even checking for a true cause of action.
    HMCS have identified over a 1000 similar, poorly produced claims and the solicitor’s conduct in many of these cases is believed to currently be the subject of an investigation by the SRA.
    I believe the term for such conduct is ‘robo-claims’ which is against public interest and demonstrates a disregard for the dignity of the court and is unfair on
    unrepresented consumers.
    It also concerns me that the people that own this firm of ‘solicitors’ are the same people who own the International Parking community (IPC).Surely this constitutes a significant conflict of interest.

    (5) Unfair and unreasonable charge and unnecessary added costs by the claimant’s solicitors. The claimant has added unrecoverable sums to the original parking charge. It is believed the employee who drew up the paperwork is remunerated and the particulars of claim are templates, so it is simply not credible that £50 ‘legal representative’s or even admin costs were incurred. The claimants should also explain how and why they think £150 is fair and reasonable charge.
    (6) This case can be distinguished from the ParkingEye vs Beavis 2015 case which was dependent upon an un-denied contract, formed by prominent signage forming a clear contract/offer. Strict compliance with the BPA Code if Practice (CoP) was paramount and Mr Beavis was the driver who saw the signs and entered into a contract to pay £85 after exceeding a licence to park free. Based upon the very vague and incorrect particulars of claim and complete lack of evidence and photographs and without being furnished with the alleged signage contract, none of this applies in this case.
    (7) Due to the lack of adequate signage, this is an unfair contract, not agreed by the driver and contrary to the Consumer Rights Act 2015.
    (8) Given that the claimant is in significant breach of the pre-action protocol, I ask that this claim is struck out pursuant to CPR Part 3.4. The court may of course make such an order of its own volition, by exercising its inherent case management powers under CPR Part1.4 (2)(c) and Practice Direction 26, paragraph 5.1.
    If the court does not wish to make an order under Part 1.4(2)(c) it has the power to treat this letter as an application and dispense with the requirement for me to file a formal application – this power is contained in CPR Part 23.3(2)(b). I invite the court to take this step without putting me – a Litigant in Person significantly disadvantaged by a firm of solicitors – to the time, trouble and cost of a formal application.
    I would point out that this matter has already cost me much distress and impacted my work and finances already due to the time it has taken to research and compile this defence.
    (9) The claimant has not complied with pre-court protocol (as outlined in the new Pre Action Protocol for Debt Claims, 1 October 2017).
    (10) In the absence of any proof of adequate signage that contractually bound the defendant then there can have been no contract and the claimant has no case.

    I believe that the facts contained in this Defence Statement are true.

    Signed –------
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 4th Nov 17, 6:12 PM
    • 4,736 Posts
    • 3,077 Thanks
    KeithP
    Aren't points (1), (7) and (10) the same?
    I think you need to expand far more on the inadequate signage issue, but pictures of signs, as mentioned in (1), belong in your witness statement.

    More meat is required in point (9).
    Perhaps as seen here: forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=73348467&postcount=1


    Have a look at this UKCPM defence linked from post#2 or the NEWBIES thread:
    Last edited by KeithP; 04-11-2017 at 6:27 PM.
    .
    • Bama88
    • By Bama88 4th Nov 17, 8:07 PM
    • 17 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Bama88
    Thank you so much KeithP, you've been very helpful. I'm sending this through online and the deadline is Monday. Do you know if that means by midnight tomorrow or maybe close of business Monday? Also do I send my photographs through with the defence?
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 4th Nov 17, 8:15 PM
    • 4,736 Posts
    • 3,077 Thanks
    KeithP
    Thank you so much KeithP, you've been very helpful. I'm sending this through online and the deadline is Monday. Do you know if that means by midnight tomorrow or maybe close of business Monday? Also do I send my photographs through with the defence?
    Originally posted by Bama88
    It means by 4pm on Monday.

    Photos have no place in a defence statement. As I said, they are for your witness statement - a later stage.

    I hope you've read the appropriate section of post#2 of the NEWBIES thread where it describes how to submit a defence statement.
    I.e. print it, sign it, scan back in as a pdf and send it as an email attachment.

    There is good guidance too in the NEWBIES thread about layout, spacing, font. The idea being to make it look nice so that the judge is on your side from the start.
    .
    • Bama88
    • By Bama88 4th Nov 17, 8:21 PM
    • 17 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Bama88
    Yes, I read that I need to scan it as a pdf, I haven't found the site the easiest to navigate, I've read the newbies thread but I couldn't find some of the bits people have mentioned, such as the post by bargepole? If I have until 4pm Monday, I will scan it in work on Monday as it's easier. I'm glad you said or I'd have sent my pictures through as well.
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 4th Nov 17, 8:35 PM
    • 4,736 Posts
    • 3,077 Thanks
    KeithP
    ...I haven't found the site the easiest to navigate, I've read the newbies thread but I couldn't find some of the bits people have mentioned, such as the post by bargepole?
    Originally posted by Bama88
    Let's use the post by Bargepole as an example then.

    If you were to read post #2 of the NEWBIES thread, the word bargepole appears only three times.

    Under the heading:
    IMPORTANT - KNOW WHAT YOU MUST DO AND BY WHEN!
    ...you will see:




    You really should be treating that thread as your guiding light.
    It isn't complicated, but it is comprehensive.
    .
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