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  • FIRST POST
    • leslieknope
    • By leslieknope 6th Oct 17, 10:30 PM
    • 314Posts
    • 468Thanks
    leslieknope
    buyer was the scammer
    • #1
    • 6th Oct 17, 10:30 PM
    buyer was the scammer 6th Oct 17 at 10:30 PM
    hopefully this is the right place.

    my friend's parent recently sold a drone on eBay. it was barely used and working fine but the seller then said that it was faulty and opened a case with eBay. eBay did the usual "send the item back and get a refund" but when the buyer sent back the package, they had filled it with coasters. unfortunately eBay issued the refund as soon as the buyer said it was returned, despite friend's parent saying that it was a fraudulent package. so now the buyer has kept the drone and got a large refund. the package was sent standard mail not even signature required so he's at a loss of what to do. it seems like he's out of a drone and a lot of money but eBay don't care because they've closed the case. is there anything that can be done?
    CCCC #33: £42/£240
    DFW: £4355/£4405
Page 1
    • Browntoa
    • By Browntoa 7th Oct 17, 7:18 AM
    • 31,943 Posts
    • 37,677 Thanks
    Browntoa
    • #2
    • 7th Oct 17, 7:18 AM
    • #2
    • 7th Oct 17, 7:18 AM
    Yes

    Next time only send items tracked as required by eBay's rules and selling guide

    How was the buyer's feedback ?
    I'm the Board Guide of the Referrers ,Telephones, Pensions , Shop Don't drop ,over 50's and Discount Code boards which means I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum runnning smoothly .However, please remember, board guides don't read every post. If you spot an inappropriate or illegal post please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.
    • theonlywayisup
    • By theonlywayisup 7th Oct 17, 7:32 AM
    • 11,425 Posts
    • 7,694 Thanks
    theonlywayisup
    • #3
    • 7th Oct 17, 7:32 AM
    • #3
    • 7th Oct 17, 7:32 AM
    hopefully this is the right place.

    my friend's parent recently sold a drone on eBay. it was barely used and working fine but the seller then said that it was faulty and opened a case with eBay. eBay did the usual "send the item back and get a refund" but when the buyer sent back the package, they had filled it with coasters. unfortunately eBay issued the refund as soon as the buyer said it was returned, despite friend's parent saying that it was a fraudulent package. so now the buyer has kept the drone and got a large refund. the package was sent standard mail not even signature required so he's at a loss of what to do. it seems like he's out of a drone and a lot of money but eBay don't care because they've closed the case. is there anything that can be done?
    Originally posted by leslieknope
    When a SNAD case is opened and eBay ask the buyer to return the item they usually either supply a label or ask the seller to. The label that eBay supply is a tracked label and doesn't need a signature. The label supplied by the seller should be tracked but if it isn't, the seller loses any protection regarding the return status. eBay state that an untracked label supplied by the seller will be deemed delivered.

    That is moot anyway as your friend has the parcel back.

    What they need to do is message the buyer and ask where the drone is (sounds obvious but eBay will check and no message means your friend may be the scammer). They also need to report the buyer to eBay and Action Fraud. AF will give them a reference number. They need to go back to eBay with the AF number and appeal the decision. They need to do this quickly.

    Good luck and let us know if there are any developments.
    • glentoran99
    • By glentoran99 7th Oct 17, 8:21 AM
    • 4,930 Posts
    • 3,937 Thanks
    glentoran99
    • #4
    • 7th Oct 17, 8:21 AM
    • #4
    • 7th Oct 17, 8:21 AM
    Yes

    Next time only send items tracked as required by eBay's rules and selling guide

    How was the buyer's feedback ?
    Originally posted by Browntoa


    How will that help the op the buyer sent it back to him not signed for
    • scd3scd4
    • By scd3scd4 7th Oct 17, 8:46 AM
    • 542 Posts
    • 431 Thanks
    scd3scd4
    • #5
    • 7th Oct 17, 8:46 AM
    • #5
    • 7th Oct 17, 8:46 AM
    If its not signed for then how do they prove you received it. You need to prove you sent it back to get a refund with EBay.............someone tried that with me along time again. I opened it, saw it was not what I sent so just said I never received anything. The scammer got scammed.
    • theonlywayisup
    • By theonlywayisup 7th Oct 17, 9:16 AM
    • 11,425 Posts
    • 7,694 Thanks
    theonlywayisup
    • #6
    • 7th Oct 17, 9:16 AM
    • #6
    • 7th Oct 17, 9:16 AM
    If its not signed for then how do they prove you received it.
    Originally posted by scd3scd4
    Proof of delivery doesn't need a signature. Neither does eBay. All eBay want is proof of delivery (under £750).

    You need to prove you sent it back to get a refund with EBay.............
    Originally posted by scd3scd4
    I think you might need to read the OP again. The OP isn't the one doing the sending back.
    • Marcon
    • By Marcon 7th Oct 17, 10:26 AM
    • 181 Posts
    • 100 Thanks
    Marcon
    • #7
    • 7th Oct 17, 10:26 AM
    • #7
    • 7th Oct 17, 10:26 AM
    Yes

    Next time only send items tracked as required by eBay's rules and selling guide

    How was the buyer's feedback ?
    Originally posted by Browntoa
    That's not the issue - the problem is that the 'buyer' has sent back a parcel (which has been received by the original seller) which doesn't contain the item sold. Lots of media coverage on just this sort of problem, which seems to. have become rife in recent months.
    • scd3scd4
    • By scd3scd4 7th Oct 17, 10:29 AM
    • 542 Posts
    • 431 Thanks
    scd3scd4
    • #8
    • 7th Oct 17, 10:29 AM
    • #8
    • 7th Oct 17, 10:29 AM
    Proof of delivery doesn't need a signature. Neither does eBay. All eBay want is proof of delivery (under £750).



    I think you might need to read the OP again. The OP isn't the one doing the sending back.
    Originally posted by theonlywayisup

    I was referring to the buyer getting the refund and the buyer doing the returning. You have to follow Ebay guidelines on returning items for refunds. I was interested on how it was returned.

    This is not a new scam on Ebay and Ebay know its an Achilles heel but don't care. That's why anything over £25 they have to collect from me.


    That's said a friend at work had something similar. He waited months watching the same persons page and returned the compliment. Not to get any money back as the item was nothing he was interested in but just to get even.............some people. ;-]
    Last edited by scd3scd4; 07-10-2017 at 10:36 AM.
    • leslieknope
    • By leslieknope 7th Oct 17, 1:12 PM
    • 314 Posts
    • 468 Thanks
    leslieknope
    • #9
    • 7th Oct 17, 1:12 PM
    • #9
    • 7th Oct 17, 1:12 PM
    That's not the issue - the problem is that the 'buyer' has sent back a parcel (which has been received by the original seller) which doesn't contain the item sold. Lots of media coverage on just this sort of problem, which seems to. have become rife in recent months.
    Originally posted by Marcon
    yes this is exactly it unfortunately. package was returned but it didn't contain the so-called faulty drone so the buyer has his money and the drone we've escalated it to ebay but they weren't interested before they closed to the case so i'm not sure how they'll help after. just wondered if there was anything else that could be done. it seems like this thing has happened quite a few times.
    CCCC #33: £42/£240
    DFW: £4355/£4405
    • theonlywayisup
    • By theonlywayisup 7th Oct 17, 3:57 PM
    • 11,425 Posts
    • 7,694 Thanks
    theonlywayisup
    yes this is exactly it unfortunately. package was returned but it didn't contain the so-called faulty drone so the buyer has his money and the drone we've escalated it to ebay but they weren't interested before they closed to the case so i'm not sure how they'll help after. just wondered if there was anything else that could be done. it seems like this thing has happened quite a few times.
    Originally posted by leslieknope
    Clearly you didn't read post 3.
    • z1a
    • By z1a 7th Oct 17, 4:27 PM
    • 814 Posts
    • 653 Thanks
    z1a
    "seems like he's out of a drone and a lot of money"

    No, he's out of a drone.
    • footyguy
    • By footyguy 7th Oct 17, 5:55 PM
    • 3,883 Posts
    • 1,541 Thanks
    footyguy
    hopefully this is the right place.

    my friend's parent recently sold a drone on eBay. it was barely used and working fine but the seller then said that it was faulty and opened a case with eBay. eBay did the usual "send the item back and get a refund" but when the buyer sent back the package, they had filled it with coasters. unfortunately eBay issued the refund as soon as the buyer said it was returned, despite friend's parent saying that it was a fraudulent package. so now the buyer has kept the drone and got a large refund. the package was sent standard mail not even signature required so he's at a loss of what to do. it seems like he's out of a drone and a lot of money but eBay don't care because they've closed the case. is there anything that can be done?
    Originally posted by leslieknope
    yes this is exactly it unfortunately. package was returned but it didn't contain the so-called faulty drone so the buyer has his money and the drone we've escalated it to ebay but they weren't interested before they closed to the case so i'm not sure how they'll help after. just wondered if there was anything else that could be done. it seems like this thing has happened quite a few times.
    Originally posted by leslieknope
    How exactly are you involved in any of this?
    What is your relationship to ebay in all of this?

    If I have understood you correctly, this is what ebay say
    The buyer returned a different item than the one I sent. What do I do?
    If the buyer returns a different item, or the same item but in worse condition, you should appeal to eBay immediately. We will review the case, and if we find in your favour we will repay you any funds which have been reversed from your account and record the incident on the buyer’s record. If a pattern emerges, we will take action on the buyer for fraud. We also will track the number of times a seller cases this happens, to monitor for potential abuse.
    http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/seller-protection-faq.html

    I must admit, those who may attempt to involve themselves in this type of fraudulent activity rarely do it once (unless the fraudster knows the victim, and has a specific reason to target that victim for just the one incident)

    In the event ebay does not side with the seller, then careful consideration needs to first be given to that response. However, if the seller does wish to take matters further, the options open to the seller are:
    (a) report the fraudulent activity to the police
    Agreed, because of cutbacks, and depending on the value involved and difficulty of obtaining evidence to support, they may well decide to take no further action
    (And the seller should reflect on that too)

    but the seller can always:
    (b) attempt to take out a private prosecution.
    • theonlywayisup
    • By theonlywayisup 7th Oct 17, 6:10 PM
    • 11,425 Posts
    • 7,694 Thanks
    theonlywayisup
    (a) report the fraudulent activity to the police
    Originally posted by footyguy

    It should be reported to Action Fraud, not the police.
    • footyguy
    • By footyguy 7th Oct 17, 6:25 PM
    • 3,883 Posts
    • 1,541 Thanks
    footyguy
    It should be reported to Action Fraud, not the police.
    Originally posted by theonlywayisup
    Perhaps, but I guarantee they won't investigate it further - they have no investigation powers.
    • theonlywayisup
    • By theonlywayisup 7th Oct 17, 6:57 PM
    • 11,425 Posts
    • 7,694 Thanks
    theonlywayisup
    Perhaps, but I guarantee they won't investigate it further - they have no investigation powers.
    Originally posted by footyguy
    It isn't about investigation for the complainant, it is about the reporting of the crime. This is sufficient for eBay and Paypal when considering whether the detail adds weight to the case.
    • footyguy
    • By footyguy 7th Oct 17, 7:08 PM
    • 3,883 Posts
    • 1,541 Thanks
    footyguy
    It isn't about investigation for the complainant, it is about the reporting of the crime. This is sufficient for eBay and Paypal when considering whether the detail adds weight to the case.
    Originally posted by theonlywayisup
    My advice was based on assisting the OP, (is there anything that can now de sone) and that means bringing about a prosecution of the alleged fraudster.
    Before prosecution, evidence will need to be obtained to support the allegation of fraud, and someone therefore needs to investigate...

    If you care to read the OP, it says ebay have already closed the case as far as they are concerned (hence why I advised the OP that "careful consideration needs to first be given to that response")
    • theonlywayisup
    • By theonlywayisup 7th Oct 17, 7:44 PM
    • 11,425 Posts
    • 7,694 Thanks
    theonlywayisup
    My advice was based on assisting the OP, (is there anything that can now de sone) and that means bringing about a prosecution of the alleged fraudster.
    Before prosecution, evidence will need to be obtained to support the allegation of fraud, and someone therefore needs to investigate...

    If you care to read the OP, it says ebay have already closed the case as far as they are concerned (hence why I advised the OP that "careful consideration needs to first be given to that response")
    Originally posted by footyguy
    If you care to read post 3, it explains what can help the OP. I take your opening sentence to be a typo?

    I understand you are not versed in eBay procedure and this being the eBay board explains why the OP has much quicker avenues open. Proving fraud doesn't get the money back. But I am sure you are aware of that?
    • qwert yuiop
    • By qwert yuiop 7th Oct 17, 7:50 PM
    • 2,136 Posts
    • 1,248 Thanks
    qwert yuiop
    Proof of delivery doesn't need a signature. Neither does eBay. All eBay want is proof of delivery (under £750).



    I think you might need to read the OP again. The OP isn't the one doing the sending back.
    Originally posted by theonlywayisup
    Be like the queen and say "one" instead of "you". Avoid confusion.
    • shaun from Africa
    • By shaun from Africa 7th Oct 17, 7:51 PM
    • 9,618 Posts
    • 10,778 Thanks
    shaun from Africa
    If you do consider a private prosecution, keep a good look out on the buyers Facebook account (if they have one and it's not private).
    If you are lucky, they may well post photographs of themselves with their new drone.
    • theonlywayisup
    • By theonlywayisup 7th Oct 17, 8:01 PM
    • 11,425 Posts
    • 7,694 Thanks
    theonlywayisup
    Be like the queen and say "one" instead of "you". Avoid confusion.
    Originally posted by qwert yuiop
    My country doesn't have a queen, so you might like to enlighten me, I think I do quite well with a foreign language. I certainly don't court confusion.
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