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  • FIRST POST
    • Bobbyblu
    • By Bobbyblu 6th Oct 17, 6:07 PM
    • 11Posts
    • 1Thanks
    Bobbyblu
    Driving colleague's cars in work carpark
    • #1
    • 6th Oct 17, 6:07 PM
    Driving colleague's cars in work carpark 6th Oct 17 at 6:07 PM
    Hi,
    I work for a company where parking is in very high demand. There are no other options of where to park other than public transport which is difficult as it's out in the sticks.
    We are expected to park up very tightly in front and beside each other and leave our keys in the office. We go out on our work vehicles for the day and all return at different hours which vary day to day. If we need to leave before others we have to move their cars in order to get to our own and likewise they move mine
    Work have now made it clear they are not responsible for any accidents or damage in the carpark etc so where do we stand legally. What happens if I damage someone's car when I move it. I'm only a named driver on my own car insurance so on days when I have to take the car where do I stand. It really doesn't sit right with me that we have to do this.
    Many thanks for any advice.
Page 2
    • zagfles
    • By zagfles 7th Oct 17, 9:43 AM
    • 12,495 Posts
    • 10,496 Thanks
    zagfles
    Is there really nowhere within half a mile or so of the place where you can park legally? I used to work somewhere like that with a tiny work carpark where everyone was always blocking everyone else in, in the end I just decided it was far too much hassle parking there and found a quiet street half a mile away with no parking restrictions and parked there every day.
    • Bobbyblu
    • By Bobbyblu 7th Oct 17, 10:05 AM
    • 11 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Bobbyblu
    Is there really nowhere within half a mile or so of the place where you can park legally? I used to work somewhere like that with a tiny work carpark where everyone was always blocking everyone else in, in the end I just decided it was far too much hassle parking there and found a quiet street half a mile away with no parking restrictions and parked there every day.
    Originally posted by zagfles
    Unfortunately not. It's in the middle of nowhere in the country. Public transport requires about a mile walk up an unlit country lane at 6 in the morning, so in winter it's pitch black.
    • Car 54
    • By Car 54 7th Oct 17, 10:11 AM
    • 2,460 Posts
    • 1,598 Thanks
    Car 54
    As a named driver unless the policy certificate says otherwise which is very unlikely you are not insured to drive any vehicle other than the one you are named on the insurance for. When you are moving a colleagues car you are doing so uninsured. As has been stated above the fact that employees and delivery drivers have access to the site means for insurance and police prosecution purposes it would be regarded as a public road.

    So for example whilst moving a colleagues car you hit another car, person or object you would be personally responsible for the full cost of any damage incurred and if the police were called you would face a driving without insurance charge which normally incurs 6 points and results in increased insurance premiums. The reality is the insurers of the car you were driving uninsured would pay for the damage and recover the full costs from you.

    Another thing to consider is that if a colleague similarly uninsured moves your car and causes damage your husbands insurers would have to pay for the damage but would then look to recover these costs from you for giving permission to an uninsured driver and the driver for not having insurance.

    These types of arrangements never end well.
    Originally posted by angrycrow
    And in both examples the car owner could be charged with causing or permitting driving without insurance: 6 points again.
    • Mercdriver
    • By Mercdriver 7th Oct 17, 11:32 AM
    • 1,461 Posts
    • 997 Thanks
    Mercdriver
    If everybody at your workplace were to stand together on this, then they'd have to do something about it.
    • Warwick Hunt
    • By Warwick Hunt 7th Oct 17, 11:49 AM
    • 673 Posts
    • 342 Thanks
    Warwick Hunt
    If everybody at your workplace were to stand together on this, then they'd have to do something about it.
    Originally posted by Mercdriver
    You're right and stopping staff parking on site would be an own goal for the staff.
    • Bobbyblu
    • By Bobbyblu 7th Oct 17, 1:13 PM
    • 11 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Bobbyblu
    You're right and stopping staff parking on site would be an own goal for the staff.
    Originally posted by Warwick Hunt
    Absolutely, they'd have more space for their vehicles and the work vehicles. No skin off their nose at all.
    • Head The Ball
    • By Head The Ball 7th Oct 17, 1:32 PM
    • 2,976 Posts
    • 6,838 Thanks
    Head The Ball
    Is a motorbike or moped an option for you?
    Who'll remember the ones
    who only rode in them to die
    All their lives are just a smudge
    of smoke against the sky
    • footyguy
    • By footyguy 7th Oct 17, 1:51 PM
    • 3,883 Posts
    • 1,543 Thanks
    footyguy
    Hi,
    I work for a company where parking is in very high demand. There are no other options of where to park other than public transport which is difficult as it's out in the sticks.
    We are expected to park up very tightly in front and beside each other and leave our keys in the office. We go out on our work vehicles for the day and all return at different hours which vary day to day. If we need to leave before others we have to move their cars in order to get to our own and likewise they move mine
    Work have now made it clear they are not responsible for any accidents or damage in the carpark etc so where do we stand legally. What happens if I damage someone's car when I move it. I'm only a named driver on my own car insurance so on days when I have to take the car where do I stand. It really doesn't sit right with me that we have to do this.
    Many thanks for any advice.
    Originally posted by Bobbyblu
    Legally, the employer is attempting to deny any responsibility for any damage caused to cars in the car park (although this may be open to legal challenge based on what you say - I suggest you seek legal advice if necesseay)
    If you cause damage to someone else's property, you will be held liable.

    I suggest you find somewhere else to park whilst you are at work, and do not hand over your keys to anyone.
    Similarly, refuse to drive any vehicle as part of your employment duties unless your employer fully indemnifies you in the event of any accident you cause.
    • footyguy
    • By footyguy 7th Oct 17, 1:53 PM
    • 3,883 Posts
    • 1,543 Thanks
    footyguy
    ... It's in the middle of nowhere in the country....
    Originally posted by Bobbyblu
    Should be quite easy to find an alternative location to park your vehicle whilst at work then
    • Car 54
    • By Car 54 7th Oct 17, 2:07 PM
    • 2,460 Posts
    • 1,598 Thanks
    Car 54
    Similarly, refuse to drive any vehicle as part of your employment duties unless your employer fully indemnifies you in the event of any accident you cause.
    Originally posted by footyguy
    But your employer cannot indemnify you against criminal charges.
    • glentoran99
    • By glentoran99 7th Oct 17, 2:09 PM
    • 4,935 Posts
    • 3,939 Thanks
    glentoran99
    But your employer cannot indemnify you against criminal charges.
    Originally posted by Car 54


    if its on private land is it criminal? You don't need to be taxed or insured etc to drive on private land surely?
    • Warwick Hunt
    • By Warwick Hunt 7th Oct 17, 2:23 PM
    • 673 Posts
    • 342 Thanks
    Warwick Hunt
    if its on private land is it criminal? You don't need to be taxed or insured etc to drive on private land surely?
    Originally posted by glentoran99
    It might be private land but if delivery vehicle use the location it maybe a public place. Tax won't be needed bu insurance will.
    • Car 54
    • By Car 54 7th Oct 17, 2:36 PM
    • 2,460 Posts
    • 1,598 Thanks
    Car 54
    if its on private land is it criminal? You don't need to be taxed or insured etc to drive on private land surely?
    Originally posted by glentoran99
    That has been discussed already in this thread. The key point is whether the car park is accesible by the public, and it seems likely that it is.
    • Joe Horner
    • By Joe Horner 7th Oct 17, 2:42 PM
    • 4,168 Posts
    • 3,672 Thanks
    Joe Horner
    And in both examples the car owner could be charged with causing or permitting driving without insurance: 6 points again.
    Originally posted by Car 54
    That's more likely to come back on whoever holds (and hands out) the keys in the office.

    Leaving the keys in the office doesn't necessarily equate to permission for uninsured others to drive the car but, by handing keys out, the office is directly permitting use, and they should be checking for appropriate insurance first.
    • footyguy
    • By footyguy 7th Oct 17, 4:03 PM
    • 3,883 Posts
    • 1,543 Thanks
    footyguy
    But your employer cannot indemnify you against criminal charges.
    Originally posted by Car 54
    Indeed. I had not assumed the OP was intending any criminal activity, more protection against any accidental damage he may cause
    • footyguy
    • By footyguy 7th Oct 17, 4:10 PM
    • 3,883 Posts
    • 1,543 Thanks
    footyguy
    It might be private land but if delivery vehicle use the location it maybe a public place. Tax won't be needed bu insurance will.
    Originally posted by Warwick Hunt
    That's why I like the fact I am insured to "also drive, with the owner's permission, a motor car not owned by the policyholder and not hired to the policyholder under a leasing or hire purchase agreement, as long as the motor car has valid cover in force under another insurance policy."

    and

    "Provided that the person driving holds a licence to drive the vehicle or has held and is not disqualified from holding or obtaining such a licence."



    However, I am not insured for business purposes.
    Whilst this may or may not be considered "business purposes", I would not seek to use my insurance cover in any event to protect me for carrying out duties as instructed by my employer.
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 7th Oct 17, 4:47 PM
    • 33,595 Posts
    • 17,476 Thanks
    Quentin
    That's why I like the fact I am insured to "also drive, with the owner's permission, a motor car not owned by the policyholder and not hired to the policyholder under a leasing or hire purchase agreement, as long as the motor car has valid cover in force under another insurance policy."

    and

    "Provided that the person driving holds a licence to drive the vehicle or has held and is not disqualified from holding or obtaining such a licence."



    However, I am not insured for business purposes.
    Whilst this may or may not be considered "business purposes", I would not seek to use my insurance cover in any event to protect me for carrying out duties as instructed by my employer.
    Originally posted by footyguy
    You do appreciate that when driving under that cover the car you are driving has no cover at all?

    Driving under your cover just means you have third party cover.

    Any damage you cause to the car you are driving is down to you to sort out with the owner
    • McKneff
    • By McKneff 7th Oct 17, 5:04 PM
    • 35,718 Posts
    • 45,988 Thanks
    McKneff
    If you work in the middle of nowhere there must be a million and one spaces to park...uless it is a narrow one vehicle track for miles...
    make the most of it, we are only here for the weekend.
    and we will never, ever return.
    • footyguy
    • By footyguy 7th Oct 17, 6:33 PM
    • 3,883 Posts
    • 1,543 Thanks
    footyguy
    You do appreciate that when driving under that cover the car you are driving has no cover at all?

    Driving under your cover just means you have third party cover.

    Any damage you cause to the car you are driving is down to you to sort out with the owner
    Originally posted by Quentin
    Yes, indeed, I know that. As you say, it covers me "third party" which is sufficient to meet the requirements of the RTA.
    (So hopefully no criminal act occurs simply by my driving the vehicle)

    I also know it does not cover me should I cause any accidental damage to the car I am driving, hence why I suggest if the employer requires me to drive such a vehicle, they also provide appropriate indemnity should I damage it accidentally.

    But everyone, please don't worry about me - I'm not the one here seeking help and advice.
    The OP is
    • theoretica
    • By theoretica 9th Oct 17, 10:49 PM
    • 4,946 Posts
    • 6,178 Thanks
    theoretica
    In Singapore parking is in very short supply and one solution I was told about was to park without engaging the handbrake. People just pushed cars up or down to make needed room without the keys. Could this work for you and your colleagues?
    But a banker, engaged at enormous expense,
    Had the whole of their cash in his care.
    Lewis Carroll
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