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  • FIRST POST
    • splitbrain
    • By splitbrain 6th Oct 17, 3:16 PM
    • 3Posts
    • 1Thanks
    splitbrain
    Smart Parking Ticket (Inverness, Rental Car, Foreigner)
    • #1
    • 6th Oct 17, 3:16 PM
    Smart Parking Ticket (Inverness, Rental Car, Foreigner) 6th Oct 17 at 3:16 PM
    Hi,

    I've read the newbie thread, but since I'm not a native speaker I have a hard time extracting what applies to me. So please be patient with me ;-)

    I was on vacation in Scotland two weeks ago, my wife and I had a rental car from EuropeCar. EuropeCar now forwarded a Parking Charge by Smart Parking to me and I wonder what to do. Here are the facts:
    • rental car by EuropeCar
    • I am the main person on the rental contract but my wife was also registered as driver
    • we did buy a ticket (I still have the receipt)
    • we did return 30min late to our vehicle
    • it happened in Smothers Lane Inverness
    • we're back in Germany

    I am wondering:
    • Should I appeal using their website?
    • if yes, should I mention the receipt and admit being late?
    • or should I appeal on other grounds, eg. it's not visible who the driver is?
    • could someone help me draft the appeal?
    • or should I simply ignore this and hoping that it would be too complicated for them to charge a foreigner?

    I'd like to make this go away with as less hassle as possible (without me paying 100 pounds for 30min parking).

    Thanks for any help you can provide.
Page 1
    • Redx
    • By Redx 6th Oct 17, 3:26 PM
    • 16,063 Posts
    • 20,100 Thanks
    Redx
    • #2
    • 6th Oct 17, 3:26 PM
    • #2
    • 6th Oct 17, 3:26 PM
    to avoid issues from Europcar, you should appeal it as HIRER/LESSEE or KEEPER (not as DRIVER)

    use the blue text template , adding a note that Scotland does not have pofa2012 and the driver will not be divulged (they will not be told who the driver was)

    give an address for service like your home address , or one in your own country (Germany) that can receive mail

    and if using an email address, use one made for the purpose, like a new gmail address for example

    hopefully they will see that this person lives outside the UK in Germany and that POFA2012 does not apply , and cancel the charge

    do not add anything else to the appeal, no information about being late or having problems , keep all those details to yourself

    tell Europcar that you are dealing with it but that they should name the hirer (not driver - HIRER) of the vehicle - IN WRITING - to Smart Parking , to remove themselves from the equation , as per the BVRLA advice some 2 or 3 years ago

    also bear in mind that 2 words are not correct with this topic

    FINE

    PENALTY

    it is neither, so this is probably NOT COVERED by their terms and conditions , despite what they may say

    it is an INVOICE , pcn , or Parking Charge Notice

    ps:- some good advice for a similar one for a Canadian visitor recently

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5672274

    reading that one may help you a lot
    Last edited by Redx; 06-10-2017 at 5:27 PM.
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • splitbrain
    • By splitbrain 6th Oct 17, 3:48 PM
    • 3 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    splitbrain
    • #3
    • 6th Oct 17, 3:48 PM
    • #3
    • 6th Oct 17, 3:48 PM
    Thank you very much for your reply. So the following text should work? I am unsure about the paragraph about "registered keeper' data from the DLVA" - since that seems not to apply to a rental car anyway? Can/should I simply remove that paragraph?

    I challenge this 'PCN' as HIRER of the car.

    I believe that your signs fail the test of 'large lettering' and prominence, as established in ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis. Your unremarkable and obscure signs were not seen by the driver, are in very small print and the terms are not readable to drivers.

    There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. I remind you that Scotland does not have POFA2012 and the driver will not be divulged. I therefor ask you to cancel the charge.

    Should you obtain the registered keeper's data from the DVLA without reasonable cause, please take this as formal notice that I reserve the right to sue your company and the landowner/principal, for a sum not less than £250 for any Data Protection Act breach. Your aggressive business practice and unwarranted threat of court for the ordinary matter of a driver using my car without causing any obstruction nor offence, has caused significant distress to me.

    I do not give you consent to process data relating to me or this vehicle. I deny liability for any sum at all and you must consider this letter a Section 10 Notice under the DPA. You are required to respond within 21 days. I have kept proof of submission of this appeal and look forward to your reply.

    Yours faithfully,
    • Redx
    • By Redx 6th Oct 17, 3:58 PM
    • 16,063 Posts
    • 20,100 Thanks
    Redx
    • #4
    • 6th Oct 17, 3:58 PM
    • #4
    • 6th Oct 17, 3:58 PM
    agreed , plus a few typos corrected below

    I challenge this 'PCN' as HIRER of the car.

    I believe that your signs fail the test of 'large lettering' and prominence, as established in ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis. Your unremarkable and obscure signs were not seen by the driver, are in very small print and the terms are not readable to drivers.

    There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. I remind you that Scotland does not have POFA2012 and the driver will not be divulged. I therefore ask you to cancel the charge.

    Your aggressive business practice and unwarranted threat of court for the ordinary matter of a driver using my car without causing any obstruction nor offence, has caused significant distress to me.

    I do not give you consent to process data relating to me or this vehicle. I deny liability for any sum at all and you must consider this letter a Section 10 Notice under the DPA. You are required to respond within 21 days. I have kept proof of submission of this appeal and look forward to your reply.

    Yours faithfully,
    whatever you do , CHECK that the appeal is made as either HIRER or as KEEPER , nothing else in any of their online menus

    give your new gmail email address, plus your name and german address for service of papers
    Last edited by Redx; 06-10-2017 at 5:26 PM.
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Redx
    • By Redx 6th Oct 17, 4:00 PM
    • 16,063 Posts
    • 20,100 Thanks
    Redx
    • #5
    • 6th Oct 17, 4:00 PM
    • #5
    • 6th Oct 17, 4:00 PM
    should you wish to use the edna basher and coupon-mad advice , bear the above in mind

    * COMPANY, LEASE OR HIRE CARS ANYWHERE IN THE UK

    In the case of a company car or hire car, if you get a windscreen ticket you MUST appeal before day 28 (well before day 21 when it's an IPC firm which only 'offers' 21 days to appeal - check the PCN). This is in order to hook the PPC in your direction, before they get a chance to get the keeper's details from the DVLA.

    You should also warn the owner/keeper (Fleet Manager) not to pay if they do get a letter about it because they have no business to get involved in a fake PCN you have already appealed as driver, and you won't reimburse them if they are daft enough to pay it.

    If the hire/lease co gets a postal PCN and names you as the driver/hirer, that is a good thing as it removes them from the loop entirely and then you can follow the above advice as appropriate to your case - but check and see if they have charged an admin fee. Challenge that admin fee with the Fleet Manager, Hire firm or your HR Manager, if your car use t&cs do not support this deduction for a mere invoice (as opposed to a fine/penalty).

    Europcar are one firm which will refund the admin fee if you win your appeal.

    Here are two examples of a successful first appeal (but one that gets a POPLA code is good too - the appeal can then be winnable - so don't expect early cancellation, this is rare). These examples relate to a situation where the PPC has (very commonly indeed) failed to send the required 'documents' to the hirer with the postal Notice, by day 21 after the date they were informed of the hirer's details:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=69859059#post69859059

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=69767583#post69767583


    Thanks to Edna Basher for the template appeal to use where it's a Hire/company/lease car and a postal Notice has been sent after the hirer/lessee/company car user has been named. Remember, that does not mean they have named the 'driver'. You are the keeper.
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • splitbrain
    • By splitbrain 6th Oct 17, 5:24 PM
    • 3 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    splitbrain
    • #6
    • 6th Oct 17, 5:24 PM
    • #6
    • 6th Oct 17, 5:24 PM
    Thank you very much. I submitted the appeal with your corrections. We'll se what happens.
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