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    • soolin
    • By soolin 6th Oct 17, 9:30 AM
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    soolin
    Discussion - ivory ban
    • #1
    • 6th Oct 17, 9:30 AM
    Discussion - ivory ban 6th Oct 17 at 9:30 AM
    I know we have a few antique dealers on here and I imagine many of us do come across ivory quite frequently (I know I do). Whilst ebay ban the sale of it outright it is currently possible to legally trade in ivory as long as it is pre 1947 and can be proven as such, that looks like it is likely to change in the coming year:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-41512796

    Personally I won't touch the stuff, pre 1947 or not, I have occasionally had some in a mixed box but until recently had someone who worked for a big animal charity who took it away to be destroyed.

    In the US there has been a ban in place now for a while but casual dealers are still being caught out on occasions usually when they sell old tourist pieces like carved elephants that had ivory tusks.

    I just thought it might be useful to place this post here for information.
    I'm the Board Guide for the Ebay Board , Charities Board , Dosh & Disability , Up Your Income and the Local MoneySaving-England board which means I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly. However, do remember, board guides don't read every post. If you spot an illegal or inappropriate post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com (it's not part of my role to deal with this). Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com
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Page 1
    • zerog
    • By zerog 6th Oct 17, 9:32 AM
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    zerog
    • #2
    • 6th Oct 17, 9:32 AM
    • #2
    • 6th Oct 17, 9:32 AM
    I don't think ivory that already exists should be destroyed since it won't bring the elephants back, but I'm happy with the ban on trading it.
    • soolin
    • By soolin 6th Oct 17, 9:35 AM
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    soolin
    • #3
    • 6th Oct 17, 9:35 AM
    • #3
    • 6th Oct 17, 9:35 AM
    I don't think ivory that already exists should be destroyed since it won't bring the elephants back, but I'm happy with the ban on trading it.
    Originally posted by zerog
    In the US, and it appears to be likely to be the same here, it will not be illegal to own ivory but it will be illegal to sell or buy it. It is my own personal choice not to even own it and since I won't sell it that rather leaves me in a predicament.
    I'm the Board Guide for the Ebay Board , Charities Board , Dosh & Disability , Up Your Income and the Local MoneySaving-England board which means I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly. However, do remember, board guides don't read every post. If you spot an illegal or inappropriate post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com (it's not part of my role to deal with this). Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com
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    • DigForVictory
    • By DigForVictory 6th Oct 17, 9:36 AM
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    DigForVictory
    • #4
    • 6th Oct 17, 9:36 AM
    • #4
    • 6th Oct 17, 9:36 AM
    If there is a demand for "current" ivory, then the suppliers should farm the animals. With from fields to furniture guarantee and some quickly identifiable chemical fed the stock so it can be assured as genuinely conserved and farmed rather than poached.
    • RFW
    • By RFW 6th Oct 17, 10:41 AM
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    RFW
    • #5
    • 6th Oct 17, 10:41 AM
    • #5
    • 6th Oct 17, 10:41 AM
    If there is a demand for "current" ivory, then the suppliers should farm the animals.
    Originally posted by DigForVictory
    Having a demand for something doesn't always mean it has to be supplied.
    .
    • donnac2558
    • By donnac2558 6th Oct 17, 1:14 PM
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    donnac2558
    • #6
    • 6th Oct 17, 1:14 PM
    • #6
    • 6th Oct 17, 1:14 PM
    think farmers will keep a herd of full grown elephants in their back garden?

    Seriously!!! PMSL
    • Marcon
    • By Marcon 6th Oct 17, 1:19 PM
    • 181 Posts
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    Marcon
    • #7
    • 6th Oct 17, 1:19 PM
    • #7
    • 6th Oct 17, 1:19 PM
    If there is a demand for "current" ivory, then the suppliers should farm the animals. With from fields to furniture guarantee and some quickly identifiable chemical fed the stock so it can be assured as genuinely conserved and farmed rather than poached.
    Originally posted by DigForVictory
    ...and this ivory can be identified...how???
    • mrcol1000
    • By mrcol1000 6th Oct 17, 6:23 PM
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    mrcol1000
    • #8
    • 6th Oct 17, 6:23 PM
    • #8
    • 6th Oct 17, 6:23 PM
    Farming elephants seems like a a good idea but the cost would make the ivory expensive.

    Far easier and cheaper to do like now. Kill a wild elephant, or injure the elephant so you can safely saw off the ivory. Its all great it being banned for trade in the USA but its an insignificant problem there compared to Asia where it will be traded freely in full knowledge how it was obtained. Instead of dealing with a problem, we make a little insignificant gesture and pat ourselves on the back of how great we are.
    • trigger fish
    • By trigger fish 6th Oct 17, 7:49 PM
    • 481 Posts
    • 380 Thanks
    trigger fish
    • #9
    • 6th Oct 17, 7:49 PM
    • #9
    • 6th Oct 17, 7:49 PM
    Wouldn't touch it myself.

    As to farming elephants I haven't had such a good laugh for a while.
    • ilikewatch
    • By ilikewatch 8th Oct 17, 7:45 AM
    • 1,044 Posts
    • 1,237 Thanks
    ilikewatch
    Wouldn't touch it myself.

    As to farming elephants I haven't had such a good laugh for a while.
    Originally posted by trigger fish
    Not quite sure why the idea of farming elephants is so funny? Surely it not a million miles away from farming rhino, and that's "a thing". http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2016/01/160122-Hume-South-Africa-rhino-farm/
    • ilikewatch
    • By ilikewatch 8th Oct 17, 7:48 AM
    • 1,044 Posts
    • 1,237 Thanks
    ilikewatch
    think farmers will keep a herd of full grown elephants in their back garden?

    Seriously!!! PMSL
    Originally posted by donnac2558
    Do you think that farmers keep herds of full grown cows/sheep in their back gardens?
    • donnac2558
    • By donnac2558 8th Oct 17, 10:01 AM
    • 2,371 Posts
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    donnac2558
    Do you think that farmers keep herds of full grown cows/sheep in their back gardens?
    Originally posted by ilikewatch
    Well for a start:

    Elephants are much larger than cows or sheep. So a farm won't do, they roam large areas. So you want the said farmers to buy up large game reserves to keep them on. Or perhaps chain them up in small areas. Cruel

    Elephants don't get their tusks until they are full grown so many years. So you want to keep on a reserve very large animals for years before getting the tusks. What just going to shoot them no longer serve a purpose? They don't grow back! Tusks that is.

    Rhinos do not have ivory compared hair actually, their horns are used by the morons who think it will turn them into sex gods.

    I am still thinking of a word begins with M and ends with N
    • soolin
    • By soolin 8th Oct 17, 10:47 AM
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    soolin
    Just to point out that elephants need their horns, they are not merely decorative. I cannot imagine an industry where you breed elephants at vast cost , cut part of their tusks of (can't cut too much of as there is a risk to the elephant), and then have to provide safety and food etc for them as they live out their natural age. The costs of providing a safe environment for a natural span of life that can reach 70 years, all for a small piece of ivory would seem an expensive way to protect them. Their home would need to be patrolled by armies of people to keep out predators (no tusks- no protection).

    I suspect any such farming arrangement would soon have corners cut and just encourage poaching.

    incidentally, re the rhino farming this is quite interesting:

    http://www.ifaw.org/united-kingdom/news/why-some-creative-poaching-solutions-fail
    I'm the Board Guide for the Ebay Board , Charities Board , Dosh & Disability , Up Your Income and the Local MoneySaving-England board which means I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly. However, do remember, board guides don't read every post. If you spot an illegal or inappropriate post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com (it's not part of my role to deal with this). Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com
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    • Red*Dragonfly
    • By Red*Dragonfly 8th Oct 17, 5:45 PM
    • 48 Posts
    • 59 Thanks
    Red*Dragonfly
    the poachers would just brake into the elephant farm.

    I sometimes think that the real problem is poverty. it's this that leads people to do desperate things to survive, it's the same as any gang related organised crime. tackle the poverty, less people would be willing to kill the elephants.

    I know it's probably more complex than this, but I just think the problem is bigger than it first seems.
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