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  • FIRST POST
    • Lamilad
    • By Lamilad 6th Oct 17, 12:54 AM
    • 1,197Posts
    • 2,371Thanks
    Lamilad
    Smart Parking ordered to shut down illegal car park and pay back "fines"
    • #1
    • 6th Oct 17, 12:54 AM
    Smart Parking ordered to shut down illegal car park and pay back "fines" 6th Oct 17 at 12:54 AM
    http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/15576452.Firm_ordered_to_shut_down_car_park_and_re fund_controversial_fines/

    I know this car park well.

    No surprise that they've ignored both the council and the newspaper. They'll also ignore everyone who now contacts them asking for their money back... Can't see them just rolling over and refunding everyone's money..

    Interested to see how this one plays out. Would love to see the victims come together to issue a class action against Smart.

    On top of the refunds, how many DPA claims could this lead to?

    Not looking good for Bradford Council either.
Page 1
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 6th Oct 17, 8:26 AM
    • 7,412 Posts
    • 6,459 Thanks
    The Deep
    • #2
    • 6th Oct 17, 8:26 AM
    • #2
    • 6th Oct 17, 8:26 AM
    Where there's blame there's a claim.

    Bradford Trading Standards will no doubt now leap into action to support those who paid.

    I hope Popla will release any information they have on PCNs issued at this site, also if the PPC won any claims or obtained CCJs it is going to cost them.


    It couldn't happen to a nicer company.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 6th Oct 17, 8:56 AM
    • 6,458 Posts
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    beamerguy
    • #3
    • 6th Oct 17, 8:56 AM
    • #3
    • 6th Oct 17, 8:56 AM
    I wonder which one of the daft solicitors will take this on ??
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • Johnersh
    • By Johnersh 6th Oct 17, 9:12 AM
    • 734 Posts
    • 1,361 Thanks
    Johnersh
    • #4
    • 6th Oct 17, 9:12 AM
    • #4
    • 6th Oct 17, 9:12 AM
    Where there's blame there isn't always a claim.

    But where there's a judgment and the council have clarified the a position, there certainly is. Robust use of MCOL by ticket recipients is needed. I wouldn't assume trading standards will assist to recover monies for individuals or that they have the resources.

    Anyone with multiple tickets (8+) and therefore owed a decent wedge would do well to make a statutory demand for the cash do that smart can be wound up if they don't pay.
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 6th Oct 17, 9:12 AM
    • 40,512 Posts
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    Fruitcake
    • #5
    • 6th Oct 17, 9:12 AM
    • #5
    • 6th Oct 17, 9:12 AM
    Do not so smart have a physical office where a few busloads of victims might turn up on a daily basis to politely ask for their money back?

    Ah such dreams I have ... I think I need to adjust my meds again.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • Lamilad
    • By Lamilad 6th Oct 17, 1:49 PM
    • 1,197 Posts
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    Lamilad
    • #6
    • 6th Oct 17, 1:49 PM
    • #6
    • 6th Oct 17, 1:49 PM
    Anyone with multiple tickets (8+) and therefore owed a decent wedge would do well to make a statutory demand for the cash do that smart can be wound up if they don't pay.
    Like the sound of that!
    • peter_the_piper
    • By peter_the_piper 6th Oct 17, 5:35 PM
    • 26,218 Posts
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    peter_the_piper
    • #7
    • 6th Oct 17, 5:35 PM
    • #7
    • 6th Oct 17, 5:35 PM
    I wonder how much the council are in for. Hope they cough up soon as it would put more leverage onto (Not So )Smart.
    I'd rather be an Optimist and be proved wrong than a Pessimist and be proved right.
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 6th Oct 17, 6:06 PM
    • 1,812 Posts
    • 3,202 Thanks
    IamEmanresu
    • #8
    • 6th Oct 17, 6:06 PM
    • #8
    • 6th Oct 17, 6:06 PM
    Anyone with multiple tickets (8+) and therefore owed a decent wedge would do well to make a statutory demand for the cash do that smart can be wound up if they don't pay.
    Shouldn't that be "Anyone with multiple tickets (8+) [and were stupid enough to pay] and therefore owed a decent wedge"

    Most people have a good idea when they are being scammed but they lack the knowledge of what to do about it. Hence MSE [other forums are available.]
    Life's for living, get on with it rather than worrying about these. If they hassle, counter claim.

    Send them that costs schedule though, 24 hours before the hearing, and file it with the court. Take with you evidence that you have sent the costs schedule to them and when.
    LoC
    • fil cad
    • By fil cad 6th Oct 17, 7:53 PM
    • 753 Posts
    • 599 Thanks
    fil cad
    • #9
    • 6th Oct 17, 7:53 PM
    • #9
    • 6th Oct 17, 7:53 PM
    Oooh this will be an interesting one to follow, bet smart *arting will go deaf ears now.
    PPCs say its carpark management, BPA say its raising standards..... we all know its just about raking in the revenue.
    • Lamilad
    • By Lamilad 20th Oct 17, 8:42 PM
    • 1,197 Posts
    • 2,371 Thanks
    Lamilad
    So I was driving past this car park the other night and thought I'd call in for a looksie...

    And what did I find? - Well, the car park is still very much in operation. The signs are still up and the ticket machines are still accepting payment. Not so much as a warning sign from Bradford Council.

    Although exactly how Smart think these signs could ever form a contract is beyond me.... and on that note, how about a little game of 'Now you see it... Now you don't...'

    So I decided to take pics of the signs while I was there - some with the flash on and some without (as you would see them in person).

    Here's one of the signs taken from a distance of approx 5ft. And in case you're wondering, no, I wasn't kneeling down when I took it. In fact I was holding my phone slightly above my head height.
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/660c2th61mificv/20171008_004027.jpg?dl=0

    Here's the ticket machine and tariff boards from approx 8ft
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/ewg8iaog34nvyds/20171008_003741.jpg?dl=0

    and from the same position without flash
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/ao815xy4oqjev02/20171008_003800.jpg?dl=0

    Now that was a little unfair, standing so far away. So let's get closer to those tariff boards
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/dqhnu610f12vv1u/20171008_003949.jpg?dl=0

    And again, without flash
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/0hfphn3yvcen6xu/20171008_003716.jpg?dl=0

    And I've saved the best 'til last. This is my favourite. The brief, transparent and easy to read T&Cs. Distance 4-5ft... It's good thing the BPA insist on a ten minute grace as you'd need that just to set up the step ladder and find a magnifying glass.
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/lx7a0iwfq1iexfa/20171008_003830.jpg?dl=0

    and how it would appear to someone who is not wearing a miner's hat
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/jrnoo42iy4wzux5/20171008_003817.jpg?dl=0
    Last edited by Lamilad; 20-10-2017 at 8:45 PM.
    • Half_way
    • By Half_way 20th Oct 17, 9:16 PM
    • 3,872 Posts
    • 5,455 Thanks
    Half_way
    So if it's public highway, and smart have no authority to operate, wouldn't any requests to the dvla be a breach of the data protection act?
    From the Plain Language Commission:

    "The BPA has surely become one of the most socially dangerous organisations in the UK"
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 20th Oct 17, 9:36 PM
    • 15,886 Posts
    • 24,632 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    I was on a retail park yesterday where, since my last visit a month or so ago, Smart have muscled in. Their signage is everywhere. I know we argue about insufficient (volume) signage but this was ugly. Everywhere. How the planning authority allowed such a blot on the visual environment. Ugly!

    Interestingly there was a Smart produced large sign with words to the effect ‘Do not complain to any shop about your parking charge. All appeals to Smart Parking’. Didn’t take a photo as it was peeing down.

    When I’m in South Africa, retail parks are awash with parking attendants, but these are young men from the local township, hi viz jacket, floppy hat and with a wide, beaming smile from ear to ear for you.

    They guide you into your parking spot, keep an eye on their designated row of cars, help you with unloading your shopping from your trolley to boot, take care of your trolley, bid you a good day, watch you backing from your space and wave you off. Most people wind down their window and give them 3 or 4 Rands (20p or so).

    There’s no time limits in car parks, no ANPR cameras, no ticketing, no penalties, and definitely no carmageddon! The boys are happy, the customers are happy and the shops are busy.

    Were it only like this here! What a revelation it would be!
    Last edited by Umkomaas; 20-10-2017 at 9:49 PM. Reason: There : their! Fingers ahead of brain, or just slow brain :)
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Marktheshark
    • By Marktheshark 20th Oct 17, 9:41 PM
    • 5,691 Posts
    • 7,160 Thanks
    Marktheshark
    It would be West Yorkshire Trading standards, who are renowned as the clear leaders by a great margin in the most useless inept trading standards department in the UK.
    They wont do anything except hide under their desks.
    Brexit will become whatever they invent it to be.
    • Lamilad
    • By Lamilad 20th Oct 17, 9:42 PM
    • 1,197 Posts
    • 2,371 Thanks
    Lamilad
    They guide you into your parking spot, keep an eye on their designated row of cars, help you with unloading your shopping from your trolley to boot, take care of your trolley, bid you a good day, watch you backing from your space and wave you off. Most people wind down their window and give them 3 or 4 Rands (20p or so).

    There’s no time limits in car parks, no ANPR cameras, no ticketing, no penalties, and definitely no carmageddon! The boys are happy, the customers are happy and the shops are busy.
    I was drifting off into a heavenly day dream while reading that......... One day!
    • pappa golf
    • By pappa golf 20th Oct 17, 9:47 PM
    • 7,711 Posts
    • 7,986 Thanks
    pappa golf
    So if it's public highway, and smart have no authority to operate, wouldn't any requests to the dvla be a breach of the data protection act?
    Originally posted by Half_way

    YES as soon as they have been officially made aware of the situation , prior to this they can pass the blame back to the council and say they were acting in good faith
    • pappa golf
    • By pappa golf 20th Oct 17, 9:48 PM
    • 7,711 Posts
    • 7,986 Thanks
    pappa golf
    I was on a retail park yesterday where, since my last visit a month or so ago, Smart have muscled in. There signage is everywhere. I know we argue about insufficient (volume) signage but this was ugly. Everywhere. How the planning authority allowed such a blot on the visual environment. Ugly!

    Interestingly there was a Smart produced large sign with words to the effect ‘Do not complain to any shop about your parking charge. All appeals to Smart Parking’. Didn’t take a photo as it was peeing down.

    When I’m in South Africa, retail parks are awash with parking attendants, but these are young men from the local township, hi viz jacket, floppy hat and with a wide, beaming smile from ear to ear for you.

    They guide you into your parking spot, keep an eye on their designated row of cars, help you with unloading your shopping from your trolley to boot, take care of your trolley, bid you a good day, watch you backing from your space and wave you off. Most people wind down their window and give them 3 or 4 Rands (20p or so).

    There’s no time limits in car parks, no ANPR cameras, no ticketing, no penalties, and definitely no carmageddon! The boys are happy, the customers are happy and the shops are busy.

    Were it only like this here! What a revelation it would be!
    Originally posted by Umkomaas

    definition:

    south Africa = parking attendent

    UK = parking warden
    • patman99
    • By patman99 20th Oct 17, 11:00 PM
    • 8,118 Posts
    • 9,540 Thanks
    patman99
    Surely Smart Parking could claim their losses back from the Council as the Council ran the site as a carpark for 10 years previously.
    Never Knowingly Understood.

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    • pappa golf
    • By pappa golf 20th Oct 17, 11:04 PM
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    pappa golf
    yes , breach of contract , selling them faulty goods , I wonder if trading standards would assist them?
    • Johno100
    • By Johno100 21st Oct 17, 8:33 AM
    • 3,236 Posts
    • 3,522 Thanks
    Johno100
    Surely Smart Parking could claim their losses back from the Council as the Council ran the site as a carpark for 10 years previously.
    Originally posted by patman99
    yes , breach of contract , selling them faulty goods , I wonder if trading standards would assist them?
    Originally posted by pappa golf
    But based on some of the the comments in the OP's link it could be that the council are not the landowners but leased the car park from a 3rd party, The lease agreement came to an end and then (not so) Smart stepped in and continued to run it as a car park under a new lease with the landowner. If that is the case I can't see that the council is liable.
    • Lamilad
    • By Lamilad 30th Oct 17, 1:24 PM
    • 1,197 Posts
    • 2,371 Thanks
    Lamilad
    The saga continues...

    Smart Parking still maintaining a very 'undignified' silence over the issue.

    http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/local/localbrad/15626634.Car_park_fines_row_rumbles_on_as_new_prob e_is_launched/
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