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  • FIRST POST
    • singhini
    • By singhini 5th Oct 17, 8:17 PM
    • 216Posts
    • 139Thanks
    singhini
    Pension company not telling me what my pots worth
    • #1
    • 5th Oct 17, 8:17 PM
    Pension company not telling me what my pots worth 5th Oct 17 at 8:17 PM
    ive got a pension pot from a previous employer and I was wondering what the pot might be worth so I rang the number on some old paperwork.
    I was told that they cant tell me over the phone but they will write to me with the information.


    Three weeks passed and I received nothing so I rang them yesterday to ask where is the paperwork (I was told that they were calculating what the pots worth and will email me the info tomorrow). Well tomorrow is now today and I still haven't got the information


    Q1 - Is it normal practice to "work out what the pots worth"? (I thought they would know this information on a daily basis).


    Q2 - Also all my other pension providers write to me on an annual basis to tell me this information yet this pension provider doesn't send me anything, I have to ring up and request a valuation (is this normal, I thought all pensions providers had to send annual statements)?


    Any thoughts
Page 3
    • singhini
    • By singhini 11th Oct 17, 9:42 PM
    • 216 Posts
    • 139 Thanks
    singhini
    I pay £26,000 annually in IT and NI anyway, what difference is another £32k going to make
    • sandsy
    • By sandsy 11th Oct 17, 10:15 PM
    • 1,224 Posts
    • 721 Thanks
    sandsy
    I pay £26,000 annually in IT and NI anyway, what difference is another £32k going to make
    Originally posted by singhini
    Around 6-7 years of £4.5k worth of index linked income.
    • hyubh
    • By hyubh 11th Oct 17, 11:23 PM
    • 1,980 Posts
    • 1,491 Thanks
    hyubh
    The elephant in the room for me is the fact the pension fund is circa £588 million short and their intending to put £33million in to it until 2027
    Originally posted by singhini
    As well as what (in particular) Malthusian has said, were the sponsoring employer to fail, unless the pension scheme's trustees successfully argue that it can remain free-standing, it will enter the Pension Protection Fund and the amount of 'compensation' members receive (i.e. level of pension in the PPF) will be calculated in a standard fashion, relative to the scheme pension lost, that doesn't take into account the funding level of the scheme when it ceased.

    Conversely, if the scheme remains formally in deficit and but the sponsoring employer stays around, the funding level won't enable the employer to just reduce benefits accordingly. At most a very good funding level might increase the chance of the scheme not entering the PPF were the sponsoring employer to go bust... but notwithstanding certain high-profile cases, not entering the PPF in such a situation would be pretty unlikely.
    • bigadaj
    • By bigadaj 12th Oct 17, 4:20 AM
    • 10,803 Posts
    • 7,100 Thanks
    bigadaj
    Thanks for everyone's comments and suggestions but if taking the money out and holding it in my bank account makes me happy then I don't see what's wrong with that.
    Originally posted by singhini
    You wont be allowed to, that's what's wrong.
    • Silvertabby
    • By Silvertabby 12th Oct 17, 9:47 AM
    • 1,930 Posts
    • 2,439 Thanks
    Silvertabby
    You wont be allowed to, that's what's wrong.
    He could if he transfers his DB benefits to a personal pension/SIPP - with all the costs that involves.
    • bigadaj
    • By bigadaj 12th Oct 17, 10:47 AM
    • 10,803 Posts
    • 7,100 Thanks
    bigadaj
    He could if he transfers his DB benefits to a personal pension/SIPP - with all the costs that involves.
    Originally posted by Silvertabby
    Not if he doesn't take regulated advice and there's no indication that he accepts he will do this.
    • Malthusian
    • By Malthusian 12th Oct 17, 11:11 AM
    • 3,444 Posts
    • 5,279 Thanks
    Malthusian
    I pay £26,000 annually in IT and NI anyway, what difference is another £32k going to make
    Originally posted by singhini
    When you set up my Direct Debit to pay me the £2,625 a year that you don't care about, could you also send me a lump sum of £32,000?

    That's the difference.
    • PeacefulWaters
    • By PeacefulWaters 12th Oct 17, 11:53 AM
    • 7,300 Posts
    • 9,043 Thanks
    PeacefulWaters
    I pay £26,000 annually in IT and NI anyway, what difference is another £32k going to make
    Originally posted by singhini
    I think what others are trying to say is apply a bit of thought to tax bands and thresholds as keeping the money in a pension pot and drawing it down bit by bit when you're highest tax rate is only 20% might be a tad more sensible than paying 40% or even 45% tax on some of it.
    • Silvertabby
    • By Silvertabby 12th Oct 17, 12:21 PM
    • 1,930 Posts
    • 2,439 Thanks
    Silvertabby
    “ He could if he transfers his DB benefits to a personal pension/SIPP - with all the costs that involves.
    Originally posted by Silvertabby
    Not if he doesn't take regulated advice and there's no indication that he accepts he will do this. Posted by bigadaj
    That's what I meant by costs. If OP won't pay, then his DB pension is going nowhere.
    • bigadaj
    • By bigadaj 12th Oct 17, 12:41 PM
    • 10,803 Posts
    • 7,100 Thanks
    bigadaj
    That's what I meant by costs. If OP won't pay, then his DB pension is going nowhere.
    Originally posted by Silvertabby
    I don't think it's the cost actually, it's just a set view that complains it's all too complicated and the world is against him.
    • mickw488
    • By mickw488 12th Oct 17, 2:46 PM
    • 3 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    mickw488
    I agree with others that £3500 index-linked for less than ten years of contributions is actually very good (schemes which offered 1/40th per year of service were pretty generous). £3500 is close to half the new state pension, which needs 35 years of contributions.
    To buy a £3500 annuity at age 65, index linked, would I think cost at least £100,000 today, so maybe the £80000 offer is a little low but not crazy.
    Obviously the decision on whether to take the pension or convert to cash is yours alone - best of luck for the future!
    • singhini
    • By singhini 12th Oct 17, 3:10 PM
    • 216 Posts
    • 139 Thanks
    singhini
    I don't think it's the cost actually, it's just a set view that complains it's all too complicated and the world is against him.
    Originally posted by bigadaj




    You got it


    The original question was about the pension company not writing to me on an annual basis (and the answer simply is they don't have to, I have to contact them to find out). Which people on hear have kindly pointed out.


    And your spot on, this pension stuff is all too complicated (the law and legislation constantly changes over the years and I'm not well versed on those points).




    I would like to take this opportunity to wish you all a merry Christmas and a happy new year and I look forward to 2018 where I hope Santa brings me an extra bank holiday to celebrate the long reign of her majesty Queen Elizabeth II


    • GunJack
    • By GunJack 12th Oct 17, 3:18 PM
    • 9,882 Posts
    • 7,361 Thanks
    GunJack
    If it's any consolation to you, many people would agree that the rules on pensions & tax are way too complicated.... unfortunately, though, them's the rules and we're all stuck with working within them...
    ......Gettin' There, Wherever There is......
    • Malthusian
    • By Malthusian 13th Oct 17, 10:09 AM
    • 3,444 Posts
    • 5,279 Thanks
    Malthusian
    Actually this pension is not complicated, it is extremely simple. The OP has a pension which will pay him £4,500 gross inflation-linked for life from 65. He is going to swap it for a lump sum of £105,000. Of which he will actually get about £60,000. Which he will then spend over eight years from 55. This will mean he spends most of his remaining life poorer by £4,500 a year, for a very short-lived benefit.

    This is all very, very simple. When he says it's complicated what he means is that he doesn't want to think about it.

    The complicated aspects of pensions are no more relevant to the OP's decision than Newtonian physics are to a dog catching a frisbee.

    Bank accounts are just as complicated as pensions. And far more opaque. Have you read up on your bank's solvency requirements under Basel II and Basel III? Do you know how the bank has arrived at the interest rate it pays you based on the interest it charges on mortgages etc, its capital reserves and its overheads? No, because it's irrelevant. So is most of the complicated stuff that sits under the pension. The relevant question here is - take some money as a lump sum now (much of which will be lost in tax) or get more money later as a guaranteed inflation-linked income. Very simple.
    • xylophone
    • By xylophone 13th Oct 17, 10:54 AM
    • 23,645 Posts
    • 13,776 Thanks
    xylophone
    I worked at this place for about 7 years and even though its a final salary pension the £3,500 is rubbish (I would rather leave it with them until I'm 54 and transfer it into a cash SIPP and when I turn 55 and retire start to take the money as cash withdrawals: taking £11,500 each year out thus avoiding income tax
    The OP is currently aged 51. It appears that he has pension provision over and above this deferred pension, presumably of a DC type although this is not clarified.

    He will have a state pension entitlement - he has not said whether or not he has obtained a state pension statement.

    It seems that he does appreciate that he will be required to take advice if he wishes to transfer the pension - it has been explained to him that this advice will be neither free nor cheap.

    He will also need to check on which provider would accept the transfer if the Pension Transfer Specialist did not give a positive recommendation.

    If he did succeed in a transfer out at the earliest age he could access the pension (55 currently but set to rise), he could indeed draw it down on a tax efficient basis until SPA,, when he might also choose to draw on his other pension provision/defer state pension etc.

    The question is really whether or not he wishes to keep the index linked DB pension and index linked state pension as the "backbone" of his retirement provision, calling on his other (DC?) pensions as required.
    • xylophone
    • By xylophone 13th Oct 17, 11:15 AM
    • 23,645 Posts
    • 13,776 Thanks
    xylophone
    http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/pensions/article-4970458/Why-pay-financial-adviser-transfer-pension.html

    http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/pensions/article-4625038/Advice-ditching-final-salary-pensions-overhauled.html

    May be of interest - I do notice that neither article mentions the magic words "Pension Transfer Specialist" or the difficulty (judging from many other posts) of finding one.....
    • Malthusian
    • By Malthusian 13th Oct 17, 3:17 PM
    • 3,444 Posts
    • 5,279 Thanks
    Malthusian
    I strongly suspect that few advisers will touch the OP with a bargepole. Only if they are really desperate for business, or dodgy, and running a DB transfer factory which they plan to liquidate as soon as the complaints come in.

    The OP is a guaranteed complaint waiting to happen. It's all "I don't understand" "I don't care" "pensions are too complicated". Currently he doesn't understand but he has money. Less than a decade after cashing it in he still won't understand and he will have no money. No money + used to have money + doesn't understand = complaint.
    • Thrugelmir
    • By Thrugelmir 13th Oct 17, 5:16 PM
    • 56,203 Posts
    • 49,585 Thanks
    Thrugelmir
    To buy a £3500 annuity at age 65, index linked, would I think cost at least £100,000 today, so maybe the £80000 offer is a little low but not crazy.
    Originally posted by mickw488
    The offer reflects the fact that the scheme is currently underfunded. Those remaining in the scheme will jump with joy every time another member transfers out. As reduces the schemes long term liabilities and therefore shortfall. Progressively improving their personal position.
    “Opportunities come infrequently. When it rains gold, put out the bucket, not the thimble”
    ― Warren Buffett
    • C_Mababejive
    • By C_Mababejive 13th Oct 17, 8:03 PM
    • 10,310 Posts
    • 9,351 Thanks
    C_Mababejive
    Are DB transfer outs really a great way for DB pension schemes to offload liabilities rather than a "strain" on the scheme?
    Feudal Britain needs land reform. 70% of the land is "owned" by 1 % of the population and at least 50% is unregistered (inherited by landed gentry). Thats why your slave box costs so much..
    • sandsy
    • By sandsy 13th Oct 17, 8:12 PM
    • 1,224 Posts
    • 721 Thanks
    sandsy
    Are DB transfer outs really a great way for DB pension schemes to offload liabilities rather than a "strain" on the scheme?
    Originally posted by C_Mababejive
    Yes. The amount they hold as an accounting liability exceeds the CETVs normally paid so offloading the liability results in a positive transfer to the scheme.
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