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  • FIRST POST
    • lauravenue
    • By lauravenue 5th Oct 17, 2:10 PM
    • 21Posts
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    lauravenue
    New house - front door won't lock
    • #1
    • 5th Oct 17, 2:10 PM
    New house - front door won't lock 5th Oct 17 at 2:10 PM
    Hi,

    Quick question - we moved house last friday, old house front door was same as all other houses we've lived in, when you leave the house you pull the handle up and it's locked, use key to double lock. Our new front door doesn't do this - pulling handle up once you leave still leaves front door able to be opened, same from inside, meaning we are locking with key behind us as soon as we come home. Obviously this is dangerous from a fire perspective etc, but i'm not sure what to do to fix it.

    Front door is very old anyway - should I just get a whole new door? And is it as simple as me buying one from a shop or should I get someone proper in to fit it? Or will getting a locksmith in help? Don't want to live with the door like this much longer as it is rather dangerous I think!

    Thanks,
Page 1
    • Silvertabby
    • By Silvertabby 5th Oct 17, 2:21 PM
    • 1,652 Posts
    • 1,985 Thanks
    Silvertabby
    • #2
    • 5th Oct 17, 2:21 PM
    • #2
    • 5th Oct 17, 2:21 PM
    Our front door locks in the same way as your current one, and we don't see it as a fire hazard.

    We have 'blockers' for extra security, and just use the top blocker to secure the door when we are in the house.
    • Le_Kirk
    • By Le_Kirk 5th Oct 17, 2:23 PM
    • 2,145 Posts
    • 1,087 Thanks
    Le_Kirk
    • #3
    • 5th Oct 17, 2:23 PM
    • #3
    • 5th Oct 17, 2:23 PM
    In your other houses, how were you going to get out in the event of a fire if you raised the inside handle and the door locked without a key?
    • Jsnb88
    • By Jsnb88 5th Oct 17, 2:30 PM
    • 14 Posts
    • 11 Thanks
    Jsnb88
    • #4
    • 5th Oct 17, 2:30 PM
    • #4
    • 5th Oct 17, 2:30 PM
    I’m confused, so if you popped off to the shops you just pulled the handle up and didn’t have to use a key?
    • lauravenue
    • By lauravenue 5th Oct 17, 2:54 PM
    • 21 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    lauravenue
    • #5
    • 5th Oct 17, 2:54 PM
    • #5
    • 5th Oct 17, 2:54 PM
    That makes sense - locking it with something else rather than using the key every time. Interesting point. Thanks.

    I don't think you understand my original message, i'll try again and try to explain better. When I get home, I use a key to get into my house. That is because I locked it with a key when I left. Once inside the house, if I shut the door/pull the handle up from the inside, you can still get into the house from the outside by just using the handle, as I haven't used the key to lock it. So we are having to come home and lock ourselves in with the key to make sure you can't access the house from the outside. This means that if we needed to leave the house quickly, we would need to find a key and unlock ourselves.

    Our previous house was like every other house i've lived in, come home, unlock door with key, close door behind you, pull up handle and that's it, to get in from the outside you need a key again. Meaning to leave the house, if not double locked, you just use the handle, as you are already inside.

    There is probably a name for this type of lock/door, I just don't know what that is!
    Last edited by lauravenue; 05-10-2017 at 2:59 PM.
    • TheCyclingProgrammer
    • By TheCyclingProgrammer 5th Oct 17, 3:54 PM
    • 2,749 Posts
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    TheCyclingProgrammer
    • #6
    • 5th Oct 17, 3:54 PM
    • #6
    • 5th Oct 17, 3:54 PM
    The way you describe how your current door works is perfectly normal. Lifting the handle engages the hooks and shoot bolts that secure the door in the frame. The key/cylinder is used to lock the handle.

    You probably used to have a split spindle door:
    https://thecrimepreventionwebsite.com/security-door-locks-hardware-and-fittings/562/multipoint-locks/

    If you're worried about fire safety, you could replace the cylinder with a thumb turn cylinder. If you've just moved in you probably ought to think about replacing the cylinders anyway.

    If you want a fancy high-tech solution, Yale have a couple of keyless entry systems - the Conexis L1 can be retrofitted to your door if it meets the specifications (DIY) and can be unlocked using a key card, fob or app on your phone. The Yale Keyfree system needs professional installation and can be unlocked using the external key code, a remote fob or can be integrated into a home automation system with the right module. Neither are particularly cheap though.

    We have the original Yale Keyfree (it doesn't have alternative modules, only the key fob module built in) and it's excellent. When we go out we simply lift the handle to engage the hooks. If we forget to engage the hooks the handle will timeout after a short period of time anyway and cannot be used to operate the latch. Internally you press a little black button on the handle and pull it down to open the door. You press it and lift up to securely lock it and engage the hooks. No keys necessary.
    • d0nkeyk0ng
    • By d0nkeyk0ng 5th Oct 17, 3:59 PM
    • 460 Posts
    • 168 Thanks
    d0nkeyk0ng
    • #7
    • 5th Oct 17, 3:59 PM
    • #7
    • 5th Oct 17, 3:59 PM
    As per TheCyclingProgrammer, you're used to a split spindle door. You could easily change the handle to this type and it'll be like your old one.
    • daivid
    • By daivid 5th Oct 17, 7:31 PM
    • 152 Posts
    • 133 Thanks
    daivid
    • #8
    • 5th Oct 17, 7:31 PM
    • #8
    • 5th Oct 17, 7:31 PM
    Is keeping a key nearby in a known location, but not in reach of the letterbox, not adequate for fire safety? My door catches when shut so needs a key from outside always but opens freely from inner handle. At night (or when out) I lock the door with a key, as clever application of a credit card would open the door from the outside otherwise. The key is on a shelf that must be passed to reach the outer door and would only take a hand full of seconds extra to unlock and exit.
    • Ectophile
    • By Ectophile 5th Oct 17, 9:04 PM
    • 2,739 Posts
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    Ectophile
    • #9
    • 5th Oct 17, 9:04 PM
    • #9
    • 5th Oct 17, 9:04 PM
    That sounds like the way both my front and back doors work. When I had the front door fitted, I had a choice of how the lock would work.

    It has the big advantage that you can never accidentally lock yourself out.

    I leave a spare key hanging on a hook in the hallway, positioned where it can't be seen by anyone outside the house.
    If it sticks, force it.
    If it breaks, well it wasn't working right anyway.
    • Wassa123
    • By Wassa123 5th Oct 17, 9:59 PM
    • 259 Posts
    • 105 Thanks
    Wassa123
    My door works the same. Pull up and lock with key else it doesn't lock.
    • Owain Moneysaver
    • By Owain Moneysaver 5th Oct 17, 9:59 PM
    • 7,507 Posts
    • 7,923 Thanks
    Owain Moneysaver
    Is keeping a key nearby in a known location, but not in reach of the letterbox, not adequate for fire safety?
    Originally posted by daivid
    No. In the dark, smoke, heat, and panic, you'll drop it or not be able to find the keyhole.

    Whole families have been found dead inside their front door after a fire, all piled up on each other with the key on the floor underneath them.
    A kind word lasts a minute, a skelped erse is sair for a day.
    • Keep pedalling
    • By Keep pedalling 5th Oct 17, 10:20 PM
    • 3,749 Posts
    • 4,016 Thanks
    Keep pedalling
    No. In the dark, smoke, heat, and panic, you'll drop it or not be able to find the keyhole.

    Whole families have been found dead inside their front door after a fire, all piled up on each other with the key on the floor underneath them.
    Originally posted by Owain Moneysaver
    Could you actûally provide a documented example of such an unlikely scenario?

    If you are that worried, fit a couple of hefty bolts and only use the lock when you go out.
    • d0nkeyk0ng
    • By d0nkeyk0ng 6th Oct 17, 9:35 AM
    • 460 Posts
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    d0nkeyk0ng
    http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/elderly-seacombe-couple-who-died-10937603
    • onomatopoeia99
    • By onomatopoeia99 6th Oct 17, 11:38 AM
    • 3,431 Posts
    • 7,566 Thanks
    onomatopoeia99

    I don't think you understand my original message, i'll try again and try to explain better. When I get home, I use a key to get into my house. That is because I locked it with a key when I left. Once inside the house, if I shut the door/pull the handle up from the inside, you can still get into the house from the outside by just using the handle, as I haven't used the key to lock it. So we are having to come home and lock ourselves in with the key to make sure you can't access the house from the outside. This means that if we needed to leave the house quickly, we would need to find a key and unlock ourselves.
    Originally posted by lauravenue
    Leave the key in the lock on the inside once you've locked it. Then you won't need to find it. You don't need to carry the key around the house once you're inside.

    My greatest front door fear is locking myself out without a key, since I live alone with no relatives nearby to leave a spare with, so I've set my front doors so they can only be locked with a key whichever side of them you are.
    INTP, nerd, libertarian and scifi geek.
    Home is where my books are.
    • PasturesNew
    • By PasturesNew 6th Oct 17, 11:43 AM
    • 60,261 Posts
    • 352,088 Thanks
    PasturesNew
    Mine is a new build (7 years), lift the handle, use the key to lock the door.
    The lifting up just engages extra bolts at the top and bottom to secure the door in more places.

    All perfectly normal. It stops you being locked out.

    If you're going in/out, use the handle.
    If you're going out to the shops, lift the handle to engage the extra bolts and use the key to lock the door.
    • Oxid8uk
    • By Oxid8uk 6th Oct 17, 2:12 PM
    • 127 Posts
    • 71 Thanks
    Oxid8uk
    Change the lock for one with a thumb turn lock?

    I've never lived in a house that has as door that would just lock by pulling the handle up, I've always had to lock with a key. Our new build had a thumb turn lock on the inside for fire safety reasons but I had to change it for a normal key lock one. I couldn't risk my toddler being able to unlock the door and escape!
    • daivid
    • By daivid 6th Oct 17, 9:28 PM
    • 152 Posts
    • 133 Thanks
    daivid
    No. In the dark, smoke, heat, and panic, you'll drop it or not be able to find the keyhole.

    Whole families have been found dead inside their front door after a fire, all piled up on each other with the key on the floor underneath them.
    Originally posted by Owain Moneysaver
    So anyone with a mortice lock needs that changed right away as that makes their house a death trap?

    Also the link provided in another post refers to a key being in the room in which the fire started. If the fire is in the hallway I will need to take an alternative route (or brave the flames - though an alternative makes more sense).

    So can anyone provide evidence of an entire family being found dead next to the the door with the key in reach of them?

    I'd also add that if Owain's point is valid I would expect the tragic scenario to have taken place in a house with a properly planned and functioning smoke/fire detecting system. Without such worrying about how your door unlocks seems pointless.
    • d0nkeyk0ng
    • By d0nkeyk0ng 7th Oct 17, 9:28 AM
    • 460 Posts
    • 168 Thanks
    d0nkeyk0ng

    Also the link provided in another post refers to a key being in the room in which the fire started. If the fire is in the hallway I will need to take an alternative route (or brave the flames - though an alternative makes more sense).
    Originally posted by daivid
    I should have added more to the post but was interrupted. It was about the only link i could find in about 10 mins of searching. Everything else was related to either families who escaped or fire safety advice.

    TBH I think a split spindle system is enough to avoid worrying about escaping. Personally we have a front door with a yale latch, and a porch door with a standard euro lock. We leave the porch door unlocked unless there is no one home.
    • Mojisola
    • By Mojisola 7th Oct 17, 9:36 AM
    • 28,349 Posts
    • 72,131 Thanks
    Mojisola
    Not quite the scenario you described - Whole families have been found dead inside their front door after a fire, all piled up on each other with the key on the floor underneath them.

    "An elderly couple killed in a blaze at their home may have been unable to escape because their front door key was in the room where the fire started, an inquest heard."

    We've only ever had the kind of door you have now. We have a spare key nearby with a big glow-in-the-dark fob (so it can be found easily by feel or sight if it gets dropped during an emergency evacuation).
    • thebaldwindowfitter
    • By thebaldwindowfitter 7th Oct 17, 10:17 AM
    • 1,433 Posts
    • 705 Thanks
    thebaldwindowfitter

    TBH I think a split spindle system is enough to avoid worrying about escaping. Personally we have a front door with a yale latch, and a porch door with a standard euro lock. We leave the porch door unlocked unless there is no one home.
    Originally posted by d0nkeyk0ng
    The split spindle is not enough as a security measure the handle can be pressed back down again and entry can be gained im not saying how ,the key should always be turned to lock the door not just lift the handle .a yale latch can be unlocked in seconds
    if you think peoples advice is helpfull please take the time to clicking the thank you button it gives great satisfaction
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