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  • FIRST POST
    • natalia508
    • By natalia508 4th Oct 17, 11:04 PM
    • 6Posts
    • 1Thanks
    natalia508
    URGENT!! CCJ (in default) RECEIVED FOR UNPAID PCN
    • #1
    • 4th Oct 17, 11:04 PM
    URGENT!! CCJ (in default) RECEIVED FOR UNPAID PCN 4th Oct 17 at 11:04 PM
    Hello, please can you help?

    My husband (registered keeper of the vehicle but not the driver of the vehicle at the time the PCNs were issued) has received a CCJ in default for a hugely inflated claim by a private parking company via Gladstones for unpaid PCNs. (the first one was not wind-screen issued and I only found out about it upon receiving a windscreen one on a later occasion and then a letter).

    The problem is I was the driver at the time and believe the tickets were unreasonably issued and I have a valid defence (there is a sign that explains the parking rules but the bays are very unclearly marked and there are cars parked all over the area so it looks as though the whole area is for parking - it's not a traditional car park layout or bays layout. Bays are marked by same coloured stones but pointing the other way, the thing is there are other similar stones elsewhere which makes it hard to distinquish).

    I wish I had read these posts at the time because I stupidly immediately logged on to the PPC's website to appeal.

    I then appealed to the 'IAS' and made a statement (for which I still have screenshots) saying I was the driver but not the registered keeper at the time...and that I am being held liable for the ticket.

    Of course, both appeals were rejected because, as I have since learned, there is no incentive to accept as they are in bed with Gladstones who then get the business...

    However, letters were subsequently sent to my husband, mainly debt collectors threats etc., but then we moved house in June and somehow we never received the claim form.

    My husband has now received the CCJ but because it took a while to be redirected to us, the date on it was 14 September, which means we have until 14 October to pay the order to Gladstones.

    I want to apply for a set-aside, but my husband spoke to the court and they told him if we apply for a set-aside this does not defer the cut off date for payment to be made and therefore the judgement will go on his record. He is terrified because such a record would affect his abiity to work because his industry is tightly regulated and anything like that has to be declared to his employers.

    So we'd have to pay the order and then apply-for a set aside to reclaim the monies paid, and pay the £255. It all starts to get very risky and messy and we don't know what to do! My husband wants to pay the money tomorrow just to get himself clear, but the fact is the claim can't be against him, surely, as he wasn't the driver, and I even stated this at the beginning of the process!

    Please advise as I am so loathe to pay the monies, but equally I can't risk this affecting his credibiity... How should we proceed?
    TIA
    Last edited by natalia508; 04-10-2017 at 11:37 PM. Reason: Makes it clearer
Page 1
    • Redx
    • By Redx 4th Oct 17, 11:06 PM
    • 16,097 Posts
    • 20,152 Thanks
    Redx
    • #2
    • 4th Oct 17, 11:06 PM
    • #2
    • 4th Oct 17, 11:06 PM
    please edit the above into paragraphs so people can actually read it and help you , thank you
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Redx
    • By Redx 4th Oct 17, 11:24 PM
    • 16,097 Posts
    • 20,152 Thanks
    Redx
    • #3
    • 4th Oct 17, 11:24 PM
    • #3
    • 4th Oct 17, 11:24 PM
    it needs to be like this

    Hello, please can you help?

    My husband (registered keeper of the vehicle but not the driver of the vehicle at the time the PCNs were issued) has received a CCJ in default for a hugely inflated claim by a private parking company via Gladstones for unpaid PCNs. (the first one was not wind-screen issued and I only found out about it upon receiving a windscreen one on a later occasion and then a letter).

    The problem is I was the driver at the time and believe the tickets were unreasonably issued and I have a valid defence (there is a sign that explains the parking rules but the bays are very unclearly marked and there are cars parked all over the area so it looks as though the whole area is for parking - it's not a traditional car park layout or bays layout.

    Bays are marked by same coloured stones but pointing the other way, the thing is there are other similar stones elsewhere which makes it hard to distinquish).

    I wish I had read these posts at the time because I stupidly immediately logged on to the PPC's website to appeal and gave my details. I then appealed to the 'IAS' and made a statement (for which I still have screenshots) saying I was the driver but not the registered keeper at the time...and that I am being held liable for the ticket.

    Of course, both appeals were rejected because, as I have since learned, there is no incentive to accept as they are in bed with Gladstones who then get the business... However, letters were subsequently sent to my husband, mainly debt collectors threats etc., but then we moved house in June and somehow we never received the claim form.

    My husband has now received the CCJ but because it took a while to be redirected to us, the date on it was 14 September, which means we have until 14 October to pay the order to Gladstones.

    I want to apply for a set-aside, but my husband spoke to the court and they told him if we apply for a set-aside this does not defer the cut off date for payment to be made and therefore the judgement will go on his record. He is terrified because such a record would affect his abiity to work because his industry is tightly regulated and anything like that has to be declared to his employers.

    So we'd have to pay the order and then apply-for a set aside to reclaim the monies paid, and pay the £255. It all starts to get very risky and messy and we don't know what to do!

    My husband wants to pay the money tomorrow just to get himself clear, but the fact is the claim can't be against him, surely, as he wasn't the driver, and I even stated this at the beginning of the process!

    Please advise as I am so loathe to pay the monies, but equally I can't risk this affecting his credibiity... How should we proceed?
    TIA
    Originally posted by natalia508
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 4th Oct 17, 11:54 PM
    • 33,044 Posts
    • 17,004 Thanks
    Quentin
    • #4
    • 4th Oct 17, 11:54 PM
    • #4
    • 4th Oct 17, 11:54 PM
    Hello, please can you help?

    My husband (registered keeper of the vehicle but not the driver of the vehicle at the time the PCNs were issued) has received a CCJ in default for a hugely inflated claim by a private parking company via Gladstones for unpaid PCNs. (the first one was not wind-screen issued and I only found out about it upon receiving a windscreen one on a later occasion and then a letter).

    The problem is I was the driver at the time and believe the tickets were unreasonably issued and I have a valid defence (there is a sign that explains the parking rules but the bays are very unclearly marked and there are cars parked all over the area so it looks as though the whole area is for parking - it's not a traditional car park layout or bays layout. Bays are marked by same coloured stones but pointing the other way, the thing is there are other similar stones elsewhere which makes it hard to distinquish).

    I wish I had read these posts at the time because I stupidly immediately logged on to the PPC's website to appeal.

    I then appealed to the 'IAS' and made a statement (for which I still have screenshots) saying I was the driver but not the registered keeper at the time...and that I am being held liable for the ticket.

    Of course, both appeals were rejected because, as I have since learned, there is no incentive to accept as they are in bed with Gladstones who then get the business...

    However, letters were subsequently sent to my husband, mainly debt collectors threats etc., but then we moved house in June and somehow we never received the claim form.

    My husband has now received the CCJ but because it took a while to be redirected to us, the date on it was 14 September, which means we have until 14 October to pay the order to Gladstones.

    I want to apply for a set-aside, but my husband spoke to the court and they told him if we apply for a set-aside this does not defer the cut off date for payment to be made and therefore the judgement will go on his record. He is terrified because such a record would affect his abiity to work because his industry is tightly regulated and anything like that has to be declared to his employers.

    So we'd have to pay the order and then apply-for a set aside to reclaim the monies paid, and pay the £255. It all starts to get very risky and messy and we don't know what to do! My husband wants to pay the money tomorrow just to get himself clear, but the fact is the claim can't be against him, surely, as he wasn't the driver, and I even stated this at the beginning of the process!

    Please advise as I am so loathe to pay the monies, but equally I can't risk this affecting his credibiity... How should we proceed?
    TIA
    Originally posted by natalia508
    If the CCJ has to be declared to his employer then he needs to do so now (it will already be on the register)


    Paying it tomorrow won't necessarily see it removed tomorrow - he will need to ensure the claimant informs the Court, or make arrangements to get a receipt and deal with the removal himself. Though if his employers need to know then he may have no choice. He will know what his industry regs say!
    Last edited by Quentin; 04-10-2017 at 11:59 PM.
    • Johnersh
    • By Johnersh 5th Oct 17, 7:52 AM
    • 515 Posts
    • 929 Thanks
    Johnersh
    • #5
    • 5th Oct 17, 7:52 AM
    • #5
    • 5th Oct 17, 7:52 AM
    A judgment paid within 28 days will not be registered anywhere. Hence the deadline.

    The issue is whether the employment issues trump the obvious preference not to pay the fines. If you pay it would be as though none of this occurred. Only you / your husband can decide if that is worthwhile.

    If you intend to fight, I'd definitely let He's employer know, whilst issuing an application to set aside the judgment. I would also write to the PPC to let them know you have applied to set aside, provide a copy of the application and to request in the circumstances that the CCJ is not registered.

    Since the claimant was on notice prior to proceedings that you (W) were the driver rather than the keeper (H) then there is good argument that proceedings should not have been issued against H (and the court may have been misled if the claim form alleges that H may have been driver).
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 5th Oct 17, 8:02 AM
    • 14,947 Posts
    • 23,473 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #6
    • 5th Oct 17, 8:02 AM
    • #6
    • 5th Oct 17, 8:02 AM
    Since the claimant was on notice prior to proceedings that you (W) were the driver rather than the keeper (H) then there is good argument that proceedings should not have been issued against H (and the court may have been misled if the claim form alleges that H may have been driver).
    ..... or if the Notice to Keeper was not PoFA compliant, then they would have no excuse whatsoever to issue proceedings against the keeper.

    @OP - we need to know the following:

    who the PPC is,

    the date of the 'contravention’,

    the date the NtK was received (and the date of issue as shown on the NtK),

    if possible, a scanned redacted copy of the NtK (host on a free hosting site like tiny pic or Dropbox, copy the URL - change http to read hxxp - then paste it here and we’ll convert it to a live link)
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 5th Oct 17, 8:22 AM
    • 33,044 Posts
    • 17,004 Thanks
    Quentin
    • #7
    • 5th Oct 17, 8:22 AM
    • #7
    • 5th Oct 17, 8:22 AM
    A judgment paid within 28 days will not be registered anywhere. Hence the deadline.

    The issue is whether the employment issues trump the obvious preference not to pay the fines. If you pay it would be as though none of this occurred..
    Originally posted by Johnersh
    No.

    A ccj is registered immediately.

    The deadline for ensuring it won't remain there for 6 years is to pay it off in full within a month.

    Simply paying it off doesn't itself mean it never happened - the court must be informed it has been paid off in the month allowed.

    If the defendant informs the court then they must show proof it has been paid
    • natalia508
    • By natalia508 5th Oct 17, 12:41 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    natalia508
    • #8
    • 5th Oct 17, 12:41 PM
    • #8
    • 5th Oct 17, 12:41 PM
    [QUOTE][If you intend to fight, I'd definitely let He's employer know, whilst issuing an application to set aside the judgment. I would also write to the PPC to let them know you have applied to set aside, provide a copy of the application and to request in the circumstances that the CCJ is not registered./QUOTE]

    What are the chances of Gladstone’s agreeing not to register the CCJ?
    • natalia508
    • By natalia508 5th Oct 17, 1:04 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    natalia508
    • #9
    • 5th Oct 17, 1:04 PM
    • #9
    • 5th Oct 17, 1:04 PM
    Hi thanks
    PPC is Parking Control Management (UK)
    The first contravention was 31/8/16 but the first I knew about it was when I received letter regarding the second contravention which took place on 4/10/16, for which I also had a wind screen PCN.
    I will have to dig through boxes to find the NtK as from when we moved house... I’m not sure what it looks like..?
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 5th Oct 17, 1:17 PM
    • 33,044 Posts
    • 17,004 Thanks
    Quentin
    [QUOTE=natalia508;73219820]
    [If you intend to fight, I'd definitely let He's employer know, whilst issuing an application to set aside the judgment. I would also write to the PPC to let them know you have applied to set aside, provide a copy of the application and to request in the circumstances that the CCJ is not registered./QUOTE]

    What are the chances of Gladstone’s agreeing not to register the CCJ?

    Nothing to do with them.

    The court will have already have done that as posted above.

    (Writing to them requesting them not to register the ccj is poor advice, claimants have no say on a ccj going on the register - though if the decision is to pay it now then certainly request the claimant to inform the court, though belt and braces would be to get a receipt and deal with the court yourself)
    Last edited by Quentin; 05-10-2017 at 1:32 PM.
    • natalia508
    • By natalia508 5th Oct 17, 2:35 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    natalia508
    I can't find the original PCN or Note to Keeper (are these the same thing?!). If it's the same thing, it was issued on the windscreen so on the date of the contravention, 4/10/16; if it was the letter that followed, it was fairly shortly afterwards, so about a year ago.

    If the only thing I have is the IAS appeal details online, and the CCJ, are we fighting a losing battle?
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 5th Oct 17, 2:50 PM
    • 33,044 Posts
    • 17,004 Thanks
    Quentin
    What are you wanting to do?


    What decision have you made re the CCJ? (Pay or apply for a set aside??)
    • natalia508
    • By natalia508 5th Oct 17, 4:43 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    natalia508
    Well given the fact the CCJ is already on record, we’ll have to pay now to get it cancelled ASAP, which is the priority for my husband.

    It sounds as though it could take a long time to get a cancellation via the set-aside and there’s the risk the claim is upheld and then it can never be cancelled and removed from record, only ‘satisfied’ and remaining on record.

    BUT I believe there should be no claim against him and want to understand our chances of applying for a set-aside after paying (which the court gave as an option). It must be harder this way but still gives us a chance to fight back?
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 5th Oct 17, 5:01 PM
    • 33,044 Posts
    • 17,004 Thanks
    Quentin
    If you pay now you will be able to get the ccj removed from the register as you are paying in full within a month of the judgement.

    You then can apply for a set aside. If that's successful and you go on to win a future hearing you will be getting the set aside fee back plus the amount ordered which you had to pay to stop it affecting the defendant's employment
    • natalia508
    • By natalia508 5th Oct 17, 8:51 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    natalia508
    Thank you so much for your help, that is exactly what we will do.
    I really appreciate all the advice and support.
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