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  • FIRST POST
    • Joe whenjung
    • By Joe whenjung 4th Oct 17, 10:25 PM
    • 11Posts
    • 5Thanks
    Joe whenjung
    Indigo railway parking notice
    • #1
    • 4th Oct 17, 10:25 PM
    Indigo railway parking notice 4th Oct 17 at 10:25 PM
    Hi all,

    First time poster, and after reading many threads I could do with some guidance (or help in finding the right thread as Im sure this has been answered somewhere already).

    The driver has received a Penalty Notice from Indigo for parking in Grange Park station. They did have a valid ticket which has time of purchase and the car registration on it. Unfortunately it had fallen out of sight.

    Should I appeal immediately and ask for clemency? Your guidance would be much appreciated.
    Thanks,
    Joe
    Last edited by Joe whenjung; 04-10-2017 at 10:59 PM.
Page 1
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 4th Oct 17, 10:44 PM
    • 51,730 Posts
    • 65,376 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #2
    • 4th Oct 17, 10:44 PM
    • #2
    • 4th Oct 17, 10:44 PM
    Please read the NEWBIES thread for the appeal to submit online.

    DO NOT fill in the driver's name and address, put crosses or 'driver does not have to be named'. Obviously you have to put your details in as appellant/keeper, just NOT ''driver''.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Redx
    • By Redx 4th Oct 17, 10:45 PM
    • 16,902 Posts
    • 21,011 Thanks
    Redx
    • #3
    • 4th Oct 17, 10:45 PM
    • #3
    • 4th Oct 17, 10:45 PM
    no , no clemency because only the driver would do that, you should appeal as keeper using the blue text appeal, then take it to popla , like this one did

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5698961

    do not admit who was driving , nor who the owner is

    stay as KEEPER, because bylaws apply

    read enough INDIGO RAILWAY threads to know why we tell you this
    Last edited by Redx; 04-10-2017 at 11:03 PM.
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Joe whenjung
    • By Joe whenjung 4th Oct 17, 10:55 PM
    • 11 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Joe whenjung
    • #4
    • 4th Oct 17, 10:55 PM
    • #4
    • 4th Oct 17, 10:55 PM
    Great, thanks both. I have read the threads mentioned along with many others but I will go back through those ones in more detail now I know they have the key bits of info.
    • Joe whenjung
    • By Joe whenjung 6th Oct 17, 11:04 PM
    • 11 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Joe whenjung
    • #5
    • 6th Oct 17, 11:04 PM
    • #5
    • 6th Oct 17, 11:04 PM
    Hi guys,

    Having read through the relevant threads, and a number relating to Indigo, I think Ive got at least a basic understanding of the game here. I do have a question about an initial appeal.

    If I appeal as the KEEPER, what grounds could I put? The DRIVER could appeal on the basis that a parking ticket had been paid for, but fallen in the foot well. As keeper, I don't believe I have any other reason to appeal (signage is clear etc).
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 16th Oct 17, 9:40 PM
    • 4,747 Posts
    • 3,086 Thanks
    KeithP
    • #6
    • 16th Oct 17, 9:40 PM
    • #6
    • 16th Oct 17, 9:40 PM
    Re-read post #3 by Redx above.

    So send the blue appeal as the keeper, no need to add anything, and read the linked thread that Redx kindly supplied.
    .
    • Redx
    • By Redx 16th Oct 17, 10:05 PM
    • 16,902 Posts
    • 21,011 Thanks
    Redx
    • #7
    • 16th Oct 17, 10:05 PM
    • #7
    • 16th Oct 17, 10:05 PM
    HAs keeper, I don't believe I have any other reason to appeal (signage is clear etc).
    Originally posted by Joe whenjung
    as KEEPER , you are the wrong person to be chased because they should chase the driver (who is not known)

    as POFA2012 does not apply , then as keeper you should not have received any pcn - THAT IS YOUR NUMBER ONE APPEAL POINT

    ie:- nowt to do with me so FRO !!

    the other legal points should be added but the fact is that bylaws apply to the driver and as keeper you are not subject to said bylaws

    so FRO and chase the driver who shall not be named !!!

    if the TOC wish to enforce against the driver they have 6 months to take the driver to the magistrates court , where the driver can put forward their evidence to the magistrates

    capiche ?
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Joe whenjung
    • By Joe whenjung 31st Oct 17, 8:48 PM
    • 11 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Joe whenjung
    • #8
    • 31st Oct 17, 8:48 PM
    • #8
    • 31st Oct 17, 8:48 PM
    Hi guys,

    i would appreciate some advice on my appeal to Indigo. Im on day 27 so left it as late as possible to make my online appeal. When attempting to input my appeal information, the number of characters I can input is limited. So I cannot use the ful blue text appeal. I can only get as far as:

    "Re: PCN No. []

    I challenge this 'PCN' as keeper of the car.

    I believe that your signs fail the test of 'large lettering' and prominence, as established in ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis. Your unremarkable and obscure signs were not seen by the driver, are in very small print and the terms are not readable to drivers.

    There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. You must either rely on the POFA 2012 and offer me a POPLA code, or cancel the char"

    The only thing I can think of to get around this is to put it into a word .doc and submit that with the full wording.

    What do you think?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 31st Oct 17, 8:51 PM
    • 51,730 Posts
    • 65,376 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #9
    • 31st Oct 17, 8:51 PM
    • #9
    • 31st Oct 17, 8:51 PM
    Just change it all then, none of it matters as long as the driver is not named (SO DO NOT FILL IN THE DRIVER'S NAME ONLINE)!

    Obviously, if you must fill fields in, just put 'I do not have to name the driver' in the driver details box.

    This appeal would do, because you are not going to be offered POPLA nowadays for this one:

    I am the registered keeper. The driver will not be named. Show me your evidence that any railway byelaw was contravened, and explain the basis upon which you will rely in any contract law claim, to justify a document that you call a 'penalty'. Also in your reply please supply the applicable byelaws.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Joe whenjung
    • By Joe whenjung 31st Oct 17, 9:09 PM
    • 11 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Joe whenjung
    Thanks Coupon-mad.

    Is it also worth adding "In order to resolve the dispute I attach copy of the drivers valid parking ticket from that day"?

    Also, is there a good thread that explains why they wont issue a POPLA for this?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 31st Oct 17, 9:12 PM
    • 51,730 Posts
    • 65,376 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    This one:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5718256

    If I were you I would STILL complain to the BPA and DVLA and to your MP about this farce, while waiting for the scam 'penalty' to time out (6 months for a real byelaws penalty).
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Joe whenjung
    • By Joe whenjung 31st Oct 17, 9:27 PM
    • 11 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Joe whenjung
    Interesting - as I progress with this appeal, they are clearly trying to make this harder - or at least more misleading.

    When I untick the "were you the driver" box, another drop down appears that states I MUST supply the drivers name and address. Im assuming Mr A Non and N/A are the suitable answers here.

    Im really starting to dislike these guys...
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 31st Oct 17, 9:37 PM
    • 15,905 Posts
    • 24,659 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Im assuming Mr A Non and N/A are the suitable answers here.
    Originally posted by Joe whenjung
    Why not.

    Im really starting to dislike these guys...
    No love left?
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Joe whenjung
    • By Joe whenjung 31st Oct 17, 9:41 PM
    • 11 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Joe whenjung
    Sorry for the string of posts on this one, but I wanted to alert people to something on the Indigo appeal site.

    When un-ticking the box for registered driver, the evidence picture I uploaded disappeared. When I re uploaded that, the box magically re-ticked itself and I nearly saved with the box ticked.

    I had to untick the box first in order to be able to upload the evidence picture.

    A devious tactic if ever I saw one.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 31st Oct 17, 9:42 PM
    • 51,730 Posts
    • 65,376 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    But I've already just posted in post #9 what to do about that. Told you what to do.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Joe whenjung
    • By Joe whenjung 16th Nov 17, 9:36 PM
    • 11 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Joe whenjung
    Hi guys,

    I have had my first stage appeal to Indigo rejected as expected, and no POPLA code offered as expected. I just wanted to check that as things stand there is still no POPLA on offer for byelaws?

    In that case I just sit and await my invitation to magistrates court within the 6 months. And of course reading avidly the debt collectors letters.

    Incidentally, I read in one of the threads that the debate about this was supposed to happen with government in Jan? There is nothing in the parliamentary on this scheduled in Jan 2018, so who knows.

    Ill be writing to David Dunford in the DVLA and Steve Clark in the BPA to ask what they are doing about this as well. Fun times.
    • Redx
    • By Redx 16th Nov 17, 9:49 PM
    • 16,902 Posts
    • 21,011 Thanks
    Redx
    mainly correct

    the second reading for the Sir Greg Knight bill is late feb or early march 2018 as was discussed on the ONE SHOW last week or recently
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 16th Nov 17, 9:52 PM
    • 51,730 Posts
    • 65,376 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    In that case I just sit and await my invitation to magistrates court within the 6 months. And of course reading avidly the debt collectors letters.
    Yes.

    Ill be writing to David Dunford in the DVLA and Steve Clark in the BPA to ask what they are doing about this as well. Fun times.
    Good. I would also write to the Secretary of State for Transport and state that if the Govt are minded to move the goalposts to allow private firms to issue 'contractual' rip-off £100 charges, and illegally clamp cars for 'debt allegedly owed' then it will be a national disgrace.

    It would be the single most ridiculous backward step in terms of statutory rules about parking on private land, since the POFA Schedule 4, in 2012, when the Govt allowed themselves to be steered and lobbied by the British Parking Association (the Trade Body for the clampers!) to allow 'keeper liability' swallowing the LIE that it would reduce the burden on the courts. Suggest the DFT might like to check the current burden on the county courts system, this year, from the private parking industry and take a long hard look at the situation before moving any more goalposts for the scammers:

    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2017/11/clamping-is-back-but-is-it-legal.html

    Add that it is bad enough that the BPA has just weeks ago, arbitrarily pulled the plug on any form of ADR for railway ''parking charges'' when they mimic byelaw penalties (despite the fact POPLA were prepared to assess such cases). This creates a situation where there is no valid appeal open to the public, giving the likes of Indigo and CP Plus far too much free rein - a dangerous situation for consumers. These two are not firms to have any influence over such decisions.

    Copy in your MP as well as the DFT/Secretary of State for Transport.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 16-11-2017 at 9:55 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Joe whenjung
    • By Joe whenjung 16th Nov 17, 10:04 PM
    • 11 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Joe whenjung
    Thanks redx - found it here - https://services.parliament.uk/bills/2017-19/parkingcodeofpractice.html

    Good point Coupon, Chris Gayling will be getting a letter as well.

    In terms of lobbying, have people been sending letters to Andy McDonald (Shadow minister for Transport) as well? Labour are really seizing hold of the 'voice of the people' issues at the moment, and this could be another way to get visibility.

    info@andymcdonaldmp.org
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 16th Nov 17, 10:05 PM
    • 51,730 Posts
    • 65,376 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Good plan.

    I hate politics - the pompous idiots almost all bore me senseless - but you are right.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

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