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  • FIRST POST
    • mrplat47
    • By mrplat47 4th Oct 17, 9:42 PM
    • 2Posts
    • 0Thanks
    mrplat47
    P4Parking Residential PCN
    • #1
    • 4th Oct 17, 9:42 PM
    P4Parking Residential PCN 4th Oct 17 at 9:42 PM
    Hi all,

    I received a windscreen PCN on 20/09/17 on my vehicle after temporarily parking in a visitors' spot outside my building. I live in a private residential complex which has assigned underground parking where I usually park, but for convenience I left my car in the visitors' spot due to its proximity to my building's entrance one evening as I was planning on popping out later on. The contravention on the notice is noted as "No Valid Parking Permit On Visible Display".

    Foolishly I appealed the notice through the company's internal appeals process the next day without consulting MSE. I usually check this site before I do anything, but being a resident of the complex, I thought that it would be a quick note to them and it would be cancelled. FAIL.

    Unfortunately I have admitted to being the driver as the form they have you fill out on their website asks you to explicitly select whether you were the driver or keeper.

    I received the stock standard response letter from them today 04/10/17 which I've seen many people post all over the internet stating that my appeal was declined.

    I am new to the block and at no point did anyone from the complex management or concierge think to warn us about the parking rules. (They knew we were new as we collected the keys from them when first moving in.) There are parking notices dotted around the place, none within legible distance from where I parked, and the majority of the information is in very small print.

    My tenancy agreement with the landlord has no mention of parking, or even refer to the assigned underground parking spot (where no permits are required).

    The car is also a company lease car which is provided through Europcar if that makes any difference to things, but I think that's only helpful if you haven't admitted being the driver.

    I just wanted some advice as to whether there is anything I can go back to P4Parking with which could shut them down without having to go through the POPLA procedure. Are there any probing question I could ask (given they know I'm the driver) which could turn them off pursuing this any further?

    Many thanks in advance
Page 1
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 4th Oct 17, 10:19 PM
    • 50,680 Posts
    • 64,080 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #2
    • 4th Oct 17, 10:19 PM
    • #2
    • 4th Oct 17, 10:19 PM
    I just wanted some advice as to whether there is anything I can go back to P4Parking with which could shut them down without having to go through the POPLA procedure.
    Nothing. If there was, I promise you it would be in the NEWBIES thread.

    Are there any probing question I could ask (given they know I'm the driver) which could turn them off pursuing this any further?
    Nope. It's POPLA now.

    The car is also a company lease car which is provided through Europcar if that makes any difference to things, but I think that's only helpful if you haven't admitted being the driver.
    Indeed, that would have won at POPLA (no hirer/lessee liability) but can't be used now as you've said who was driving.

    Your best bet is some brilliant video footage or photos showing that you can drive in and park and never see a sign - I reckon you can paint that picture!
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • mrplat47
    • By mrplat47 6th Oct 17, 6:09 PM
    • 2 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    mrplat47
    • #3
    • 6th Oct 17, 6:09 PM
    • #3
    • 6th Oct 17, 6:09 PM
    Thanks very much for your response!

    Unfortunately I don't think I'll be able to provide proof that no sign at all can be seen. At the entrance there is a, albeit small, sign directly in front of incoming vehicles. It is definitely not legible however and even requires drivers to turn to the left before it's even remotely within reading distance. I would argue the majority of the information is not legible sitting from a vehicle. The coordinates of the complex are 51.486918, -0.014835

    I'm wondering if I have an argument against them not having a conforming entrance sign. I've seen on the CoP that there are several reasons why they can claim they don't need an entrance sign, however there is a clear entrance as it is a one way system with only one entrance/exit. If the sign I spoke of above can be considered an entrance sign, then none of the text meets the bare minimum 50mm capital text size - I've measured the sign and text. The only Group I text is 'Parking Permit' which is hidden in the paragraph in all capitals;

    h##ps://i.imgur.com/1QADSuL.jpg

    "All vehicles parked within these private grounds, and not displaying an authorised parking permit or parked outside of this developments parking regulations, will be charged via the issuance of a parking charge notice".

    The height of the words Parking Permit is not even 10mm.

    The other reason I thought they could claim they don't need an entrance is that 'general parking' is not permitted in the area. It is a residential complex with visitor spaces, so I would consider that general parking as that is the express purpose of the spaces.

    In your experience, do you often find that companies are not permitted to have 'entrance signs' in residential cases like this?

    Thanks very much!
    Last edited by mrplat47; 06-10-2017 at 6:55 PM.
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