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  • FIRST POST
    • GimmieGimmie
    • By GimmieGimmie 4th Oct 17, 8:32 PM
    • 1Posts
    • 1Thanks
    GimmieGimmie
    Fixed Penalty Notice for Littering.
    • #1
    • 4th Oct 17, 8:32 PM
    Fixed Penalty Notice for Littering. 4th Oct 17 at 8:32 PM
    Early September I received a letter from my local council stating that cardboard bearing my name and address had been illegally deposited next to the side of a cardboard recycling receptacle.

    • I did not leave any cardboard next to the recycling receptacle, the first time I had even any knowledge that had been done was when I received the FPN via domestic mail in early September and I am more than happy to state this under oath.

    • I am a lodger, and I live with my dad and his wife. Our bins are situated in the back of a shared garden between 3 houses which all residence regularly walk up and down from, we use our back doors as our front doors due to where the parking is situated.

    • The recycling centre is covered by CCTV as the warden who sent the FPN took a clear photo of this sign which he sent to me as part of the evidence yet when talking to him on the phone he claimed "the area is actually not covered by CCTV".

    • I recall to the best of my knowledge tearing up the box's into smaller strips so they would fit into my bin leaving room for more potential waste, this is backed up by the photos sent to me, as you can clearly see the box's had in fact been torn down.

    • The box's came from items I had ordered online on July 1st, a pair of shoes and some misc stuff for my holiday which I went on, on the 8th or 9th July and did not return until the end of the month (24th July), I am not even sure if I was in the country when this offence took place as I am yet to hear when it was done.

    • According to the warden under Section 33 of the Environmental Protection Act, which
      without nit picking it seems to be Section 34 (Duty of care etc. as respects waste.) I am indeed responsible for my waste, regardless of what I did with it..

    My argument is, I tore down my waste and put it into my bin. how is it my problem if somebody took it out which has most likely happened.. I genuinely had no intention nor knowledge of this even taking place. Furthermore, if I was to obtain the wardens name and address which is readily available via public records, paid for a Royal Mail shipping label with his name and address on it then proceeded to attach the label onto a few small sized box's and spread them over my local area, would that mean he is liable to pay any fines he shall receive? Because under Section 34, its his duty of care to dispose of waste bearing his name and address, is it not?

    Thanks in advance for any advice.
    Last edited by GimmieGimmie; 04-10-2017 at 8:38 PM.
Page 1
    • societys child
    • By societys child 5th Oct 17, 12:44 PM
    • 4,662 Posts
    • 5,033 Thanks
    societys child
    • #2
    • 5th Oct 17, 12:44 PM
    • #2
    • 5th Oct 17, 12:44 PM
    Like you, I make a point of disposing of waste properly, and to avoid the problem you have, I make sure all identification (name, address, etc) is removed from anything and everything that goes in the bin(s).

    Don't know what you should do now, but someone else may be able to offer some advice.
    Last edited by societys child; 05-10-2017 at 12:48 PM.

    • Blackbeard of Perranporth
    • By Blackbeard of Perranporth 5th Oct 17, 12:58 PM
    • 4,578 Posts
    • 27,591 Thanks
    Blackbeard of Perranporth
    • #3
    • 5th Oct 17, 12:58 PM
    • #3
    • 5th Oct 17, 12:58 PM
    Mind me again why I have an incinerator and bu99er to the greens!
    I soled my last sock
    For a whiff of your cheap perfume filled with hope of tears gone by
    • JJ Egan
    • By JJ Egan 5th Oct 17, 1:44 PM
    • 9,735 Posts
    • 3,996 Thanks
    JJ Egan
    • #4
    • 5th Oct 17, 1:44 PM
    • #4
    • 5th Oct 17, 1:44 PM
    <how is it my problem if somebody took it out which has most likely happened >
    Really who would do that ??

    However you should go to court and tell them not you and tell them as you posted .
    <Furthermore, if I was to obtain the wardens name and address which is readily available via public records, paid for a Royal Mail shipping label with his name and address on it then proceeded to attach the label onto a few small sized box's and spread them over my local area, would that mean he is liable to pay any fines he shall receive? Because under Section 34, its his duty of care to dispose of waste bearing his name and address, is it not? >
    • SevenOfNine
    • By SevenOfNine 5th Oct 17, 3:00 PM
    • 1,139 Posts
    • 1,084 Thanks
    SevenOfNine
    • #5
    • 5th Oct 17, 3:00 PM
    • #5
    • 5th Oct 17, 3:00 PM
    Only option is to let this progress to the magistrate's court. TBH that could go either way, magistrate's can be fickle!

    Are you already outside your window of opportunity to just pay the fine?

    If you receive a summons, do go to court. Unless things have changed drastically you can only enter not guilty plea if present. Though I worked in the 'parking offence' field we invariably found that very few people turned up at court (maybe 7-10 out of 120 cases), of those virtually ALL, except the rudest most obnoxious, got found not guilty......even when they quite blatantly were!

    You do risk paying costs as well as the fine though.
    Seen it all, done it all, can't remember most of it.
    • badmemory
    • By badmemory 5th Oct 17, 3:34 PM
    • 803 Posts
    • 781 Thanks
    badmemory
    • #6
    • 5th Oct 17, 3:34 PM
    • #6
    • 5th Oct 17, 3:34 PM
    For anyone who thinks that someone doing this on purpose is wierd, until a couple of years ago, the suspect moved away then, I used to regularly get half eaten pizzas in either my bottle bin or paper bin and I live in a small cul de sac! I really wouldn't have minded if it had gone in one of the others, but then the bin men wouldn't have refused to take those.
    • parkrunner
    • By parkrunner 5th Oct 17, 5:37 PM
    • 717 Posts
    • 1,072 Thanks
    parkrunner
    • #7
    • 5th Oct 17, 5:37 PM
    • #7
    • 5th Oct 17, 5:37 PM
    Like you, I make a point of disposing of waste properly, and to avoid the problem you have, I make sure all identification (name, address, etc) is removed from anything and everything that goes in the bin(s).

    Don't know what you should do now, but someone else may be able to offer some advice.
    Originally posted by societys child
    This ^^^^^
    • Chalkius
    • By Chalkius 15th Oct 17, 4:28 PM
    • 87 Posts
    • 31 Thanks
    Chalkius
    • #8
    • 15th Oct 17, 4:28 PM
    • #8
    • 15th Oct 17, 4:28 PM
    Normally on a FPN, you either pay it or take it to court. If you don't think you're responsible, take your proof to court. Let them decide. Just know that things can be increased if you lose.
    • stuartJo1989
    • By stuartJo1989 15th Oct 17, 6:54 PM
    • 127 Posts
    • 105 Thanks
    stuartJo1989
    • #9
    • 15th Oct 17, 6:54 PM
    • #9
    • 15th Oct 17, 6:54 PM
    • I recall to the best of my knowledge tearing up the box's into smaller strips so they would fit into my bin leaving room for more potential waste, this is backed up by the photos sent to me, as you can clearly see the box's had in fact been torn down.
    Originally posted by GimmieGimmie
    Why is this a point? A box which is merely torn up is simply a jigsaw puzzle of varying complexity. If they were able to solve that 'jigsaw puzzle' then your point is moot!

    • The box's came from items I had ordered online on July 1st, a pair of shoes and some misc stuff for my holiday which I went on, on the 8th or 9th July and did not return until the end of the month (24th July), I am not even sure if I was in the country when this offence took place as I am yet to hear when it was done.
    Being unsure doesn't form a strong defence. You need PROOF.

    • According to the warden under Section 33 of the Environmental Protection Act, which
      without nit picking it seems to be Section 34 (Duty of care etc. as respects waste.) I am indeed responsible for my waste, regardless of what I did with it..
    Well yea I assume so, unless you passed it over to a third party to deal with (ie the binmen).

    My argument is, I tore down my waste and put it into my bin. how is it my problem if somebody took it out which has most likely happened..
    You got PROOF of this "somebody" taking it out?

    Also, how is this the "most likely" outcome if you don't have proof?

    I genuinely had no intention nor knowledge of this even taking place.
    Fair enough! But who did it? Do you have evidence that someone else was responsible? Did you pass the rubbish over to a third party to deal with?
    Furthermore, if I was to obtain the wardens name and address which is readily available via public records, paid for a Royal Mail shipping label with his name and address on it then proceeded to attach the label onto a few small sized box's and spread them over my local area, would that mean he is liable to pay any fines he shall receive?
    He would be responsible, unless he can prove that YOU (or someone else) did this. You may also end up in trouble with the police and potentially even serving a jail term. But admittedly I'm not a law person and I'm just guessing a bit there; but I would petition for a jail sentence for you in such a scenario.

    Because under Section 34, its his duty of care to dispose of waste bearing his name and address, is it not?
    Yes it is. But if he has proof that it wasn't his fault then happy days.


    You see, you are effectively arguing that someone is as spitefully-minded as you are.... That someone has gone out of their way to cause this problem for you. What would their motivation be?? Yours would be clear; you feel hard done by.
    • badmemory
    • By badmemory 15th Oct 17, 7:59 PM
    • 803 Posts
    • 781 Thanks
    badmemory


    You see, you are effectively arguing that someone is as spitefully-minded as you are.... That someone has gone out of their way to cause this problem for you. What would their motivation be??.
    Originally posted by stuartJo1989
    And 10 years ago I would probably have agreed with you, I now know better. There are people out there that are that spitefully minded that they will do this just to mess with you. Actually the OP doesn't come across as spitefully-minded, more "why is this happening to me?" & the only answer is just because someone can.
    • Marktheshark
    • By Marktheshark 15th Oct 17, 8:04 PM
    • 5,681 Posts
    • 7,126 Thanks
    Marktheshark
    Vagrants take cardboard out of bins for bedding every night.
    Just tell them to get on with it at court and you will see them there.
    Brexit will become whatever they invent it to be.
    • stuartJo1989
    • By stuartJo1989 15th Oct 17, 8:09 PM
    • 127 Posts
    • 105 Thanks
    stuartJo1989
    And 10 years ago I would probably have agreed with you, I now know better. There are people out there that are that spitefully minded that they will do this just to mess with you. Actually the OP doesn't come across as spitefully-minded, more "why is this happening to me?" & the only answer is just because someone can.
    Originally posted by badmemory
    Aye, but if OP were to follow through with their suggestion then it would be out of spite.
    • Hoof Hearted
    • By Hoof Hearted 16th Oct 17, 3:19 PM
    • 1,994 Posts
    • 1,883 Thanks
    Hoof Hearted
    Tell them you are a traveller, then you won't have to pay....

    http://www.bucksfreepress.co.uk/news/15586968.Cost_of_clean_up_after_travellers_left_mo untains_of_rubbish_on_former_sports_centre_site_re vealed/?ref=mc&lp=2
    Je suis sabot...
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