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  • FIRST POST
    • pbsmiles
    • By pbsmiles 4th Oct 17, 6:34 PM
    • 99Posts
    • 57Thanks
    pbsmiles
    First Written Warning
    • #1
    • 4th Oct 17, 6:34 PM
    First Written Warning 4th Oct 17 at 6:34 PM
    Hello

    I have been working for a company since 5th December 2016.

    I do sales and have not met the sales target every month, I have had a brief discussion about it a couple of times but never been advised that this was a verbal warning.

    Today I got a brief email from my manager asking me to meet her in an office which I did. She told me that she wanted to issue me with a 1st written warning.

    I challenged that I hadn't had a verbal she said I had, but this hadn't previously been mentioned and wasn't backed in writing which I thought it should be.

    I also said I would of expected a letter inviting me to a disciplinary with 24 hours notice not a quite email asking to meet in an office.

    I was told that as I hadn't worked their for 2 years she didn't have to do this.

    She also said she was going to review my target week on week, rather than the monthly target that I have.

    I asked her what would happen if I didn't do the first week and she said it would get reviewed and she would have no choice but to put me on a 2nd written, after a week.

    Can someone please advise me on who is right here, I previously worked in a blue chip company as a sales manager and this is nothing like the procedures that we had to follow.

    Thank you.

    PS I have not had this conversation in writing as yet either.
Page 1
    • xapprenticex
    • By xapprenticex 4th Oct 17, 6:41 PM
    • 1,244 Posts
    • 1,137 Thanks
    xapprenticex
    • #2
    • 4th Oct 17, 6:41 PM
    • #2
    • 4th Oct 17, 6:41 PM
    Right and wrong doesnt matter, they are clearly managing you out of the company.

    At least they are not just sacking you though, you've not been there 2 years (which she clearly knows so they can do as they please)
    • London50
    • By London50 4th Oct 17, 6:58 PM
    • 1,522 Posts
    • 1,439 Thanks
    London50
    • #3
    • 4th Oct 17, 6:58 PM
    • #3
    • 4th Oct 17, 6:58 PM
    As above,under two years employed you can be dismissed without any comeback based on what you have posted
    • ohreally
    • By ohreally 4th Oct 17, 7:44 PM
    • 6,271 Posts
    • 4,793 Thanks
    ohreally
    • #4
    • 4th Oct 17, 7:44 PM
    • #4
    • 4th Oct 17, 7:44 PM
    Get an exit strategy, you're on borrowed time.
    • pbsmiles
    • By pbsmiles 4th Oct 17, 7:50 PM
    • 99 Posts
    • 57 Thanks
    pbsmiles
    • #5
    • 4th Oct 17, 7:50 PM
    • #5
    • 4th Oct 17, 7:50 PM
    Get an exit strategy, you're on borrowed time.
    Originally posted by ohreally
    Already have the strategy I just want to ensure that they are aware where they are wrong.

    I still believe that they need to follow a disciplinary procedure, i appreciate they can dismiss more easily within the first two years, but there are still procedures. I am going to contact acas in the morning.
    • lincroft1710
    • By lincroft1710 4th Oct 17, 7:58 PM
    • 9,760 Posts
    • 7,789 Thanks
    lincroft1710
    • #6
    • 4th Oct 17, 7:58 PM
    • #6
    • 4th Oct 17, 7:58 PM
    They can just say

    "pbsmiles, don't like the colour of your tie, here is x weeks notice as per contract/employment law, your final payslip will show an amount for holiday not taken"
    • xapprenticex
    • By xapprenticex 4th Oct 17, 8:11 PM
    • 1,244 Posts
    • 1,137 Thanks
    xapprenticex
    • #7
    • 4th Oct 17, 8:11 PM
    • #7
    • 4th Oct 17, 8:11 PM
    I still believe that they need to follow a disciplinary procedure, i appreciate they can dismiss more easily within the first two years, but there are still procedures.
    Originally posted by pbsmiles
    It really Doesnt matter what you believe. And like you were told, you have not been there two years so they dont need to follow the normal procedure.


    I am going to contact acas in the morning.
    Originally posted by pbsmiles
    Get a job lined up first.
    • IAmWales
    • By IAmWales 4th Oct 17, 8:18 PM
    • 1,490 Posts
    • 3,132 Thanks
    IAmWales
    • #8
    • 4th Oct 17, 8:18 PM
    • #8
    • 4th Oct 17, 8:18 PM
    Already have the strategy I just want to ensure that they are aware where they are wrong.

    I still believe that they need to follow a disciplinary procedure, i appreciate they can dismiss more easily within the first two years, but there are still procedures. I am going to contact acas in the morning.
    Originally posted by pbsmiles
    Because you've not got the answer you want?
    • keepcalmandstayoutofdebt
    • By keepcalmandstayoutofdebt 4th Oct 17, 8:19 PM
    • 2,869 Posts
    • 1,503 Thanks
    keepcalmandstayoutofdebt
    • #9
    • 4th Oct 17, 8:19 PM
    • #9
    • 4th Oct 17, 8:19 PM
    Did you ever pass 'company probation'? isn't there normally a line that disciplinary process doesn't have to come into effect until company probation past has been confirmed. (or a sentence to this effect I'm sure). You know the probation review normally at 3 or 6 months.

    Least you got 10 months out of them. Hope you find something better.
    "If you are caught in a rainstorm, once you accept that you'll receive a soaking, the only thing left to do is enjoy the walk"
    • pbsmiles
    • By pbsmiles 4th Oct 17, 8:27 PM
    • 99 Posts
    • 57 Thanks
    pbsmiles
    Did you ever pass 'company probation'? isn't there normally a line that disciplinary process doesn't have to come into effect until company probation past has been confirmed. (or a sentence to this effect I'm sure). You know the probation review normally at 3 or 6 months.

    Least you got 10 months out of them. Hope you find something better.
    Originally posted by keepcalmandstayoutofdebt
    Three month probation but never reviewed, they don't review anything at all to be fair, its a printers that has started to sell websites which is me, but I have to get that involved in the website process as it was never set up properly that I am not on the phone as much as a normal sales job would be.

    I have had to put so much stuff in place out of the sales role and the website designer they have pays no attention to detail so i have to check everything he does because if i didn't my customers would never be happy.

    No training, told they can't train me anything as i sound fine on the phone and can objection handle (been in sales 26 years so yes I can lol) and today i asked them if I leave or they dismiss me would they replace me or would this side of their business stop and I was told it would probably stop as they have been trying to make it successful since 2009 and its not worked. I am the best performer they have ever had.

    Not concerned about leaving but I do believe they should follow a process with a discplinary meeting is concerned.
    • xapprenticex
    • By xapprenticex 4th Oct 17, 8:52 PM
    • 1,244 Posts
    • 1,137 Thanks
    xapprenticex
    Not concerned about leaving but I do believe they should follow a process with a discplinary meeting is concerned.
    Originally posted by pbsmiles
    And I believe all war should end and we should all get along.

    Start looking for something else.
    • pbsmiles
    • By pbsmiles 4th Oct 17, 8:58 PM
    • 99 Posts
    • 57 Thanks
    pbsmiles
    And I believe all war should end and we should all get along.

    Start looking for something else.
    Originally posted by xapprenticex
    I already am, your approach on the forum is errrr interesting.
    • ohreally
    • By ohreally 4th Oct 17, 9:05 PM
    • 6,271 Posts
    • 4,793 Thanks
    ohreally
    i appreciate they can dismiss more easily within the first two years, but there are still procedures.
    Originally posted by pbsmiles

    Your issue though is one of remedy, where do you run with an outcome dispute?
    • pbsmiles
    • By pbsmiles 4th Oct 17, 9:14 PM
    • 99 Posts
    • 57 Thanks
    pbsmiles
    Your issue though is one of remedy, where do you run with an outcome dispute?
    Originally posted by ohreally
    Not sure what you mean? Please clarify
    • xapprenticex
    • By xapprenticex 4th Oct 17, 9:27 PM
    • 1,244 Posts
    • 1,137 Thanks
    xapprenticex
    I already am, your approach on the forum is errrr interesting.
    Originally posted by pbsmiles
    Thank you and good luck.
    • ohreally
    • By ohreally 4th Oct 17, 9:37 PM
    • 6,271 Posts
    • 4,793 Thanks
    ohreally
    Not sure what you mean? Please clarify
    Originally posted by pbsmiles
    You end up claiming a detriment, do you and your ex employer end up before an employment tribunal for your case to be heard? (no).
    • TELLIT01
    • By TELLIT01 4th Oct 17, 10:44 PM
    • 3,960 Posts
    • 4,061 Thanks
    TELLIT01
    A number of people have given the same basic answer which is that they can get rid of you at the drop of a hat when you have less than 2 years employment with them. The fact that you don't seem to like that answer doesn't change the fact that it's true. Learn to choose your battles - like one's you have at least a snowball's chance in Hell of winning.
    • jobbingmusician
    • By jobbingmusician 4th Oct 17, 11:17 PM
    • 18,745 Posts
    • 19,051 Thanks
    jobbingmusician
    Does the disciplinary procedure form part of your contract of employment? If it does (sometimes the case) then yes, they do have to follow it (or possibly 'they do have to follow it following successful completion of probation') depending, once again, on the contract. If not, then my understanding is that the employer can do pretty much anything they like (which is not discriminatory on a protected characteristic) with no comeback. Stinks, doesn't it?
    I'm the Board Guide on the Matched Betting; Referrers and Jobseeking & Training boards. I'm a volunteer to help the boards run smoothly, and I can move and merge posts there. Board guides are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an illegal or inappropriate post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com (it's not part of my role to deal with this). Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com.

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    • Masomnia
    • By Masomnia 4th Oct 17, 11:57 PM
    • 17,045 Posts
    • 37,606 Thanks
    Masomnia
    Does the disciplinary procedure form part of your contract of employment? If it does (sometimes the case) then yes, they do have to follow it (or possibly 'they do have to follow it following successful completion of probation') depending, once again, on the contract. If not, then my understanding is that the employer can do pretty much anything they like (which is not discriminatory on a protected characteristic) with no comeback. Stinks, doesn't it?
    Originally posted by jobbingmusician
    Yes if the procedures are contractual and they didn't follow them, then I suppose potentially you could try to bring a claim for wrongful dismissal. If they paid your notice your chance of winning anything is very small, as you'd have to show that you lost earnings because the process wasn't followed. You'd be free of any restrictive covenants though, if you were found to be wrongfully dismissed.
    “I could see that, if not actually disgruntled, he was far from being gruntled.” - P.G. Wodehouse
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 5th Oct 17, 12:00 AM
    • 515 Posts
    • 382 Thanks
    Comms69
    Even if they fail to follow procedure it's just a breach of contract, not unfair dismissal - less than two years service you cannot use an employment tribunal except for limited cases such as unlawful dismissal.

    Basically if they want you out, you could have your notice that day
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